Even if the second release was better, Square Enix has shown that it is certainly capable of producing horrible games. Heck, All the Bravest and FFXIV among others have shown that you can't really expect quality anymore in the series
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Even if the second release was better, Square Enix has shown that it is certainly capable of producing horrible games. Heck, All the Bravest and FFXIV among others have shown that you can't really expect quality anymore in the series
SE is sometimes close to worthless as a developer on its own anymore even if I do like them as a publisher.
My thoughts on Final Fantasy XIII honestly are basically my same thoughts on Other M (though Other M annoys me far less because I at least played the gameplay and enjoyed that ok).
Final Fantasy XIII has a terribly written story, but that doesn't change that people like it. People like Final Fantasy XIII, but that doesn't change that it's a terribly written story.
And along with that, there is a world of difference in terms of in theory and execution for how good a story is. Other M's story and what it was trying to do (mostly) I love in theory and hate in execution. Not sure I'd love Final Fantasy XIII's story in theory but I'd go with it being a similar situation.
That is bull$#!+ and you know it. That's the objective quality argument, and there's no such thing. If people can enjoy it, then it works, it just works different from the norm. There's no point is setting up some kind of standard when it comes to story telling, because everyone thinks differently, they're gonna experience things differently, and they'll relate to and understand things differently. There's no right or wrong, just broader or smaller appeal, and sure, with the right amount of effort, you might be able you might make it so more people can understand your ideas, but that may come at a sacrifice of other elements. It's all just subjective.
I agree 100%
New PS4 owner
Yeah, guitars are cool.
My musical project Comet Tail made a couple of recordings.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T0zUoWWO1v4
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2evBddvrm2U
Even if the second release was better, Square Enix has shown that it is certainly capable of producing horrible games. Heck, All the Bravest and FFXIV among others have shown that you can't really expect quality anymore in the series
SE is sometimes close to worthless as a developer on its own anymore even if I do like them as a publisher.
Didn't they recently make Bravely Default, Theatrythm, and the iOS version of TWEWY (although I hated the advertising approach, it's pretty much the best game on iOS)? Games that are all rocking the critical spectrum?
Also... not everyone hated Final Fantasy XIII... myself included...
Best thread ever
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I just CANT at the people abandoning FF just because they didn't like one game in the series.
Anyway, I would love XV on Wii U. But I know that I will probably have to buy a PS4 so I can play it.
I think it's in part personal preference.
-I didn't like XI because it was a pay-to-play grindfest.
-I didn't like XII because it didn't even care about it's own characters...and after Xenoblade it was pretty much entirely obsolete.
-I didn't like XIII overall because the battle system felt hands off...but was difficult in an annoying way.
-I didn't really like XIII-2 because they made a sequel where there was no right being one...and it shows...sad the battle system was actually better though T_T.
So for me, FF is dead, especially if you're comparing it to Fire Emblem, Monolith games, and a slew of good Atlus titles. If you still love it, more power to you, but FFXIII Lighting Returns is just a sign of more bad things to come in my mind, and FFXV and KH3 are doing NOTHING to alleviate that doubt.
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And don't get me started on KH. To me, it's more fan-inflated and overhyped than Majora's Mask, Persona 4, and Final Fantasy VII....combined.
@R_Champ Hmmm... you make alotta good points and you're right about Kingdom Hearts. I'm a Kingdom Hearts fan but I do agree that its very fan-inflated. Its the nostalgia from the first game that has people in love with the series. The gameplay is very fun but that story is just... sooo.. BAD.
As soon as I found out that Snow and Hope was in Final Fantasy: Lightning Returns... I lost interest in the game.
I own a Wii U and 3DS. I also own a PS4!
Master of the Hype Train
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I genuinely have no idea why people would consider FF a big priority for JRPG purchases, at the very least. Even the MMO stuff is confusing. There's this new thing called Guild Wars 2 that wasn't insultingly pathetic and awful in its initial release. shrugs
This is another example where fan loyalty is the only reason a series is still popular, I have to believe. Even most people here defending the game basically admit there's clearly better stuff out there, so spend your money on better stuff. Brand loyalty (series loyalty?) is kinda stupid anyway (and the existance of All the Bravest is good proof SE has no respect for that loyalty anyway)
Also even though XV looks awesome before release, I had that opinion about XIII. I'm not assuming it's guaranteed bad (in fact, I'd be surprised if it isn't at least ok) but don't pretend theré's no way it won't be. And at this point, exclusives are Nintendo's best option I feel. Even purely in terms of business for either of them, this is not what should happen.
@kkslider5552000 Its brand loyalty and fan loyalty. While there are some fans of Final Fantasy who love the classic games and hate the new games... there is a very loyal group in Final Fantasy's fanbase that loves the recent games. Those are the same people that buy anything with the words: "Final Fantasy" on the game. These same people call themselves JRPG fans.
I own a Wii U and 3DS. I also own a PS4!
Master of the Hype Train
3DS Friend Code: 2921-9690-6053 | Nintendo Network ID: Mediking9
Last time I checked, you spend/invest money to make money. They've already invested millions of dollars into this game. It's already unprofitable, because they haven't released the game and made money, yet.
FFXV will not sell on the Wii U. There's not a demand for it like there is on other consoles.
Square knows its audience (which is why most of its franchises appear on Sony's and Microsoft's consoles), and it's not on Wii U.
Please start actually giving PROOF for your arguments instead of just SAYING you're right!
New PS4 owner
Yeah, guitars are cool.
My musical project Comet Tail made a couple of recordings.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T0zUoWWO1v4
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2evBddvrm2U
Last time I checked, you spend/invest money to make money. They've already invested millions of dollars into this game. It's already unprofitable, because they haven't released the game and made money, yet.
FFXV will not sell on the Wii U. There's not a demand for it like there is on other consoles.
Square knows its audience (which is why most of its franchises appear on Sony's and Microsoft's consoles), and it's not on Wii U.
Please start actually giving PROOF for your arguments instead of just SAYING you're right!
What more do you need besides terrible sales for all 3rd party games accross the board that aim at the dedicated gaming audience?
People are not going to flock to a Wii U version of a game if it is the worst version by a considerable margin.
Last time I checked, you spend/invest money to make money. They've already invested millions of dollars into this game. It's already unprofitable, because they haven't released the game and made money, yet.
FFXV will not sell on the Wii U. There's not a demand for it like there is on other consoles.
Square knows its audience (which is why most of its franchises appear on Sony's and Microsoft's consoles), and it's not on Wii U.
Please start actually giving PROOF for your arguments instead of just SAYING you're right!
What more do you need besides terrible sales for all 3rd party games accross the board that aim at the dedicated gaming audience?
People are not going to flock to a Wii U version of a game if it is the worst version by a considerable margin.
None of the third party games that have been released on the Wii U so far have been from a series as decorated as Final Fantasy, and the difference between FFXV on the PS4/Xbox One and the Wii U should be about the same as the difference between Skyrim on the PC and the PS3/Xbox 360. Or it could be the same as the difference between games that were on both the PS3/Xbox 360 and the Wii, such as the Call of Duty games.
New PS4 owner
Yeah, guitars are cool.
My musical project Comet Tail made a couple of recordings.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T0zUoWWO1v4
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2evBddvrm2U
I just CANT at the people abandoning FF just because they didn't like one game in the series.
Anyway, I would love XV on Wii U. But I know that I will probably have to buy a PS4 so I can play it.
I'm a huge fan of the series but the FF brand is indeed tainted. XIII had no business having sequels and they're making MMOs into mainline games.
I agree about the MMOs, but I felt like the Final Fantasy XIII sequels were better for the sub-series. They greatly improved the gameplay.
I've played every mainline game and found these to be the worst of the series so far. I even tried to re-play XIII after a friend kept encouraging me to after I told him I didn't like the game but I just couldn't get into it. Bad writing, bland characters, and forgettable bosses really hurt the XIII and XIII-2 imo. The only thing I liked about them were the battle system and music
I'm really hoping Nomura hits a home run with XV. I NEED that game to be good.
Four more months until Bayonetta 2.
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I'd say FFXV is a pretty big step away from what FF usually is, though. It's an action RPG. Thats the only reason why I would consider it.
Since Wii U can run this game, my thoughts automatically go towards 3rd party decisions, not Nintendo.
Also, no one can say it can't, because it was already known that it could, when they announced it in early 2013.
That DX11 can't run on Wii U was BS, in a technical sense, and apparently half the internet believed it. I'm shocked, to say the least.
In that interview, they said they were using DX11 to develop the game, but not necessarily as means for porting the game to multiple platforms. That completely rules out the supposedly incompatible argument.
Why are people so behind on their video gaming news?
Saying it's ok for 3rd parties to dismiss the Wii U, is pretty much like saying it doesn't matter. People are apparently content with Wii U not getting 3rd parties, because PS4 and Xbox One gets them. How does that make sense, again? Oh wait, it doesn't.
The analogy for this, would basically be saying it's ok to feed 2 of 3 of your kids. WTF?
Also, yes, this is the sole definition of 1st world problems, which is why it ultimately doesn't matter, but that's not any of our decisions, so who gives a damn.
Even if the second release was better, Square Enix has shown that it is certainly capable of producing horrible games. Heck, All the Bravest and FFXIV among others have shown that you can't really expect quality anymore in the series
SE is sometimes close to worthless as a developer on its own anymore even if I do like them as a publisher.
Didn't they recently make Bravely Default, Theatrythm, and the iOS version of TWEWY (although I hated the advertising approach, it's pretty much the best game on iOS)? Games that are all rocking the critical spectrum?
Also... not everyone hated Final Fantasy XIII... myself included...
Some successes, some failures. Still doesn't change the fact that you can't expect the same success every time.
Current games: Everything on Switch
Switch Friend Code: SW-5075-7879-0008 | My Nintendo: LzWinky | Nintendo Network ID: LzWinky
I just CANT at the people abandoning FF just because they didn't like one game in the series.
Anyway, I would love XV on Wii U. But I know that I will probably have to buy a PS4 so I can play it.
I'm a huge fan of the series but the FF brand is indeed tainted. XIII had no business having sequels and they're making MMOs into mainline games.
I agree about the MMOs, but I felt like the Final Fantasy XIII sequels were better for the sub-series. They greatly improved the gameplay.
I've played every mainline game and found these to be the worst of the series so far. I even tried to re-play XIII after a friend kept encouraging me to after I told him I didn't like the game but I just couldn't get into it. Bad writing, bland characters, and forgettable bosses really hurt the XIII and XIII-2 imo. The only thing I liked about them were the battle system and music
I'm really hoping Nomura hits a home run with XV. I NEED that game to be good.
Yeah but I REALLY liked the battle system, music, and graphics. I didn't get far enough in to judge the writing, characters, and bosses.
New PS4 owner
Yeah, guitars are cool.
My musical project Comet Tail made a couple of recordings.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T0zUoWWO1v4
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2evBddvrm2U
The only reason I liked Final Fantasy games at all were because of their gameplay. And I think Final Fantasy XIII-2 had some of the best gameplay in the series.
Even if the second release was better, Square Enix has shown that it is certainly capable of producing horrible games. Heck, All the Bravest and FFXIV among others have shown that you can't really expect quality anymore in the series
SE is sometimes close to worthless as a developer on its own anymore even if I do like them as a publisher.
Didn't they recently make Bravely Default, Theatrythm, and the iOS version of TWEWY (although I hated the advertising approach, it's pretty much the best game on iOS)? Games that are all rocking the critical spectrum?
Also... not everyone hated Final Fantasy XIII... myself included...
Some successes, some failures. Still doesn't change the fact that you can't expect the same success every time.
You could say that about every developer ever. In fact, I have said that about every developer ever. What's the point of getting hyped for anything when there's always a chance it could disappoint? May as well just expect everything to fail, then be surprised when it doesn't.
My thoughts on Final Fantasy XIII honestly are basically my same thoughts on Other M (though Other M annoys me far less because I at least played the gameplay and enjoyed that ok).
Final Fantasy XIII has a terribly written story, but that doesn't change that people like it. People like Final Fantasy XIII, but that doesn't change that it's a terribly written story.
And along with that, there is a world of difference in terms of in theory and execution for how good a story is. Other M's story and what it was trying to do (mostly) I love in theory and hate in execution. Not sure I'd love Final Fantasy XIII's story in theory but I'd go with it being a similar situation.
That is bull$#!+ and you know it. That's the objective quality argument, and there's no such thing. If people can enjoy it, then it works, it just works different from the norm. There's no point is setting up some kind of standard when it comes to story telling, because everyone thinks differently, they're gonna experience things differently, and they'll relate to and understand things differently. There's no right or wrong, just broader or smaller appeal, and sure, with the right amount of effort, you might be able you might make it so more people can understand your ideas, but that may come at a sacrifice of other elements. It's all just subjective.
I might've agreed more but everything points to the writers trying and failing to do something rather than intentionally making their storyline because they had worthwhile reasons to make the writing decisions they did. Between that and the fact that fans of it have not had a good enough argument towards it. That and I find it incredibly hard to believe the story would've been anything but better had there been more sense for the heroes' motivation or much of the story to NOT require Wiki searching (in-game or literally) to figure out what was going on. Mass Effect has a ton of logs with additional information but I didn't NEED to read it to understand what was going on, and reading logs to figure out things is the most boring way to explain your story possible. Or at least having it be like the Metroid Prime games, where those things are such a natural part of the game (and only somewhat less optional for story tbh).
In general writing "standards" is something I'm not intelligent enough to go into I feel but I do believe requiring standards is ridiculous as much as I believe there are guidelines that followed for very very very very good reasons and the writing in this game didn't exactly do enough to make how unconventional it was a good idea.
Though please understand(TM Nintendo) that while I am very confident in this, at the same time most of what I know is from 2-3 years ago.
And when I say objectively terrible writing, I mean it fails at the very core of how creative writing works and I have seen nothing to justify doing that, even from fan perspectives. I don't like stating opinions as facts or anything of the sort (unless it amuses me) but if even fans have failed to make me even understand their perspective (beyond people admitting its a guilty pleasure or something similar), I don't feel I'm wrong in saying that either. Basically I'm self-aware that's a bad thing to say, but I have no reason (or not a good enough one) to believe I'm not right. Sorry.
Some of this stuff is probably waaaay beyond me if you put enough thought into the ïdea of "objectively terrible writing" I fully admit.
btw: Theatrhythm was actually made by IndiesZero (who made the excellent Retro Game Challenge) and I'm pretty sure Bravely Default was made by a different dev too. Not gonna say SE contributed nothing to them or anything but it's not surprising to me. (to be fair, the only "Mario" game I've really loved post-Galaxy 2 was Luigi's Mansion: Dark Moon, made by a different dev, so this isn't uncommon or anything)
You could say that about every developer ever. In fact, I have said that about every developer ever. What's the point of getting hyped for anything when there's always a chance it could disappoint? May as well just expect everything to fail, then be surprised when it doesn't.
Depending on their track record. For example, It's hard for anyone to get excited for Metroid after Other M, but that's the only one I'm aware that was unpopular.
Square Enix has had some big stinkers lately which tarnished their reputation. While it's possible to still be excited for another Final Fantasy, some gamers can't ignore All the Bravest and Final Fantasy XIV (the first build).
Current games: Everything on Switch
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I'll say SE has at least seemingly been trying to do things differently and made a committee because of the FFXIV disaster. That's better than I was expecting at least, so there's that.
I'm also not willing to say a major game company is completely awful. Otherwise a Capcom game wouldn't have been my 2nd favorite from last year and I wouldn't have loved the Mass Effect series if I let large corporations being dumb to get in the way of everything ever. And depending on my mood, SE's publishing would quickly make me put them above a lot of others. And they're at least trying to make "most deserving to be an ongoing, successful JRPG series" TWEWY into a more popular series with the KH crossover and iOS release, which I appreciate.
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