Wii U Forum

Topic: current gen or next gen

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CanisWolfred

121. Posted:

Banana can mean nuclear submarine if we all agree it does. All a definition means is that a lot of people use it that way. Language evolves constantly. If enough important people agree that the Wii U does not meet the criteria to be considered "Next Gen", then they can do that, even if the entire definition of the term "next gen" has to be altered to do so. Definitions are not set in stone.

Edited on by CanisWolfred

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Captain_Balko

122. Posted:

CanisWolfred wrote:

Banana can mean nuclear submarine if we all agree it does. All a definition means is that a lot of people use it that way. Language evolves constantly. If enough important people agree that the Wii U does not meet the criteria to be considered "Next Gen", then they can do that, even if the entire definition of the term "next gen" has to be altered to do so. Definitions are not set in stone.

And that's completely fair and understandable. However, one cannot redefine a word only in particular instances (as in, just for the Wii U). This definition addresses all of technology (computers, consoles, et cetera), and the Wii U is certainly included in technology (please don't insert some snide remark about how it can hardly be considered technology) so basic logic dictates that it falls under the definition. Once the definition has ACTUALLY BEEN ALTERED, please come speak to me, and I'll send you and the other guy an apology letter (I'll even pay for the stamps). Until then though, my point stands.

Captain_Balko

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SCAR392

123. Posted:

CanisWolfred wrote:

Banana can mean nuclear submarine if we all agree it does. All a definition means is that a lot of people use it that way. Language evolves constantly. If enough important people agree that the Wii U does not meet the criteria to be considered "Next Gen", then they can do that, even if the entire definition of the term "next gen" has to be altered to do so. Definitions are not set in stone.

I think the point is that the definitions we consider the right description are sometimes disregarded by some. Really, either way works, it just proves school doesn't mean jack if none of the knowledge is applied.
In this case, Wii U is factually next gen. Anyone thinking otherwise doesn't understand, or have come to a different understanding of what next gen is.
Really though, I just think the people that bash Wii U in favor of PS4 are more confident in their choice, because we've already seen some improvements graphics wise.
People that judged Wii U as far back as E3 2011 have basically jumped the gun by 2 years, because we haven't seen anything Wii U will do for next generation, really.

Edited on by SCAR392

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V8_Ninja

124. Posted:

Oh hey! We're arguing semantics! YAY!!!

My Opinion: The Wii U is Nintendo's next generation of console. I will not say more than that as I can heavily defend that point. For those trying to apply "Next Gen" to a more generalized term; stop doing it. You're only creating silly debates. Use words that actually relate to the problem at hand (hardware specifications).

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Captain_Balko

125. Posted:

SCAR392 wrote:

CanisWolfred wrote:

Banana can mean nuclear submarine if we all agree it does. All a definition means is that a lot of people use it that way. Language evolves constantly. If enough important people agree that the Wii U does not meet the criteria to be considered "Next Gen", then they can do that, even if the entire definition of the term "next gen" has to be altered to do so. Definitions are not set in stone.

I think the point is that the definitions we consider the right description are sometimes disregarded by some. Really, either way works, it just proves school doesn't mean jack if none of the knowledge is applied.
In this case, Wii U is factually next gen. Anyone thinking otherwise doesn't understand, or have come to a different understanding of what next gen is.
Really though, I just think the people that bash Wii U in favor of PS4 are more confident in their choice, because we've already seen some improvements graphics wise.
People that judged Wii U as far back as E3 2011 have basically jumped the gun by 2 years, because we haven't seen anything Wii U will do for next generation, really.

Thank you sir. I'm glad that somebody else understands the power that fact has over opinion.

Captain_Balko

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Midnight3DS

126. Posted:

V8_Ninja wrote:

Oh hey! We're arguing semantics! YAY!!!

My Opinion: The Wii U is Nintendo's next generation of console. I will not say more than that as I can heavily defend that point. For those trying to apply "Next Gen" to a more generalized term; stop doing it. You're only creating silly debates. Use words that actually relate to the problem at hand (hardware specifications).

Yes. This is all that's relevant. With some devs saying the cpu stinks, the ram is slow, and is just more anemic than PS360, that's the relevant issue in terms of third party support, but not necessarilly the overall potential success of the Wii-U. When the console is born, who cares?

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skywake

127. Posted:

The annoying things about "next gen" was the way it was used to describe the PS3/360 well into the life of both of those consoles. You don't hear it now that the ACTUAL next generation of consoles are arriving but they did use it for quite a while. Eventually the term "HD Consoles" replaced it. The Wii was never labeled "next gen" by this part of the gaming press.

The problem is that now "HD Consoles" means nothing, all of the consoles are "HD Consoles" even the unreleased PS4/720. So the media need to find a new word amongst the confusion and some have gone back to "next gen" to describe the non-Nintendo consoles which, again, doesn't mean the same to everyone. Some will use this years after they actually release. Hopefully they come up with something like "post-HD consoles" or the "actually runs at 1080p all the time consoles"... maybe they can call them the "can display 4k movies that you don't care about for that TV you don't own consoles".

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SCAR392

128. Posted:

Wii U will be current gen until it is no longer relevant.

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demonta4

129. Posted:

past nintendo consoles
nes- next gen
snes- next gen
64- next gen
gamecube- next gen
wii-upgraded gamecube
wii u-current gen,could be considered between current or last gen

Current game standing
1–nintendo
2–sony
3–who even cares about them

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banacheck

130. Posted:

Thank you skywake & CanisWolfred,

I'm not slanging the Wii U off else why on earth would i own one, but i also admit i'm a bit little disappointed right now as i'm sure others are too. As it's not off to a great start, but i'm sure once some of Nintendo's games start rolling-out that disappointment will go. Of course i know what generation should means, (And I've got the best source ever - the dictionary) (but the rules of language and basic logic trump all) if only this was true else we wouldn't see people using slang or words that have a different meaning, would we?

banacheck

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Captain_Balko

131. Posted:

banacheck wrote:

Thank you skywake & CanisWolfred,

I'm not slanging the Wii U off else why on earth would i own one, but i also admit i'm a bit little disappointed right now as i'm sure others are too. As it's not off to a great start, but i'm sure once some of Nintendo's games start rolling-out that disappointment will go. Of course i know what generation should means, (And I've got the best source ever - the dictionary) (but the rules of language and basic logic trump all) if only this was true else we wouldn't see people using slang or words that have a different meaning, would we?

So what you are saying is that because others use "slang" words and misuse words, you think it is okay for you to misuse words? In that case, you're part of the problem. I for one try to avoid misusing words in all situations (and if I do misuse a word, and it is pointed out, I simply apologize and fix it). Does this mean that we are under agreement that the Wii U is considered next-gen when compared to previous generations?

Captain_Balko

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Captain_Balko

132. Posted:

demonta4 wrote:

past nintendo consoles
nes- next gen
snes- next gen
64- next gen
gamecube- next gen
wii-upgraded gamecube
wii u-current gen,could be considered between current or last gen

No. Because generation implies progression - that means any progression at all. Do I have to whip out the dictionary?
Ahem... In regards to technology, Generation is defined as: "A class of objects derived from a preceding class"
Wii U is derived from Wii, ergo Wii U is a part of the next generation. It's as simple as that. Game over. No more comments necessary. Thank you.

Captain_Balko

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Tainy

133. Posted:

I don't understand how people can argue so much about this. The Wii U is a next generation console. It is impossible to argue otherwise. The word "generation" takes no regard to the attributes of the subject in question. My friend's aunt has a daughter who has slight physical deformities and is mentally challenged. She will grow to be less intelligent and physically weaker than her parents. She is still a part of the next generation of her family and will be loved just the same.

offspring of parents=next generation

The Wii U is clearly a next generation console—Nintendo's next generation product.

Now where I think some of the confusion comes from is disagreement in what constitutes next generation technology. The Wii U has more and faster RAM than either the PlayStation 3 or Xbox 360 and has a marginally improved GPU, however, the processor appears to be weaker than either last generation console. One could pretty easily argue by those merits that the Wii U does not implement next generation technology, or at least significantly next generation. There are some complicating factors in that assessment though. There are some features in the Wii U that simply don't exist in last generation consoles, such as the GamePad screen and Miiverse. Things like that make assessing the technology as a whole difficult, but the hardware itself isn't really that impressive, which is why some people say it isn't "next gen." What I think they really mean to say is that the Wii U doesn't have next generation hardware, even though it is a next generation console.

Edited on by Tainy

Tainy

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rallydefault

134. Posted:

V8_Ninja wrote:

Oh hey! We're arguing semantics! YAY!!!

My Opinion: The Wii U is Nintendo's next generation of console. I will not say more than that as I can heavily defend that point. For those trying to apply "Next Gen" to a more generalized term; stop doing it. You're only creating silly debates. Use words that actually relate to the problem at hand (hardware specifications).

Arguing over words with words on an internet forum made possible by the use of language. Imagine that.

Are you serious? You basically just told us to stop using the correct definition of a word in our argument.

rallydefault

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V8_Ninja

135. Posted:

rallydefault wrote:

V8_Ninja wrote:

My Opinion: The Wii U is Nintendo's next generation of console. I will not say more than that as I can heavily defend that point. For those trying to apply "Next Gen" to a more generalized term; stop doing it. You're only creating silly debates. Use words that actually relate to the problem at hand (hardware specifications).

Arguing over words with words on an internet forum made possible by the use of language. Imagine that.

Are you serious? You basically just told us to stop using the correct definition of a word in our argument.

As can be seen from reading this thread, "Next Gen" does not have a concrete definition. The video game industry became so obsessed with more powerful hardware that it adopted the loose term and battered it into the public's head until we started believing that it stood for the ideals the industry assigned to it. Ergo, I believe we should stop using vague terms to discuss problems that can be better explained in other terms.

Thanks given to Xkhaoz for that one avatar.
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Captain_Balko

136. Posted:

Tainy wrote:

I don't understand how people can argue so much about this. The Wii U is a next generation console. It is impossible to argue otherwise. The word "generation" takes no regard to the attributes of the subject in question. My friend's aunt has a daughter who has slight physical deformities and is mentally challenged. She will grow to be less intelligent and physically weaker than her parents. She is still a part of the next generation of her family and will be loved just the same.

offspring of parents=next generation

The Wii U is clearly a next generation console—Nintendo's next generation product.

Now where I think some of the confusion comes from is disagreement in what constitutes next generation technology. The Wii U has more and faster RAM than either the PlayStation 3 or Xbox 360 and has a marginally improved GPU, however, the processor appears to be weaker than either last generation console. One could pretty easily argue by those merits that the Wii U does not implement next generation technology, or at least significantly next generation. There are some complicating factors in that assessment though. There are some features in the Wii U that simply don't exist in last generation consoles, such as the GamePad screen and Miiverse. Things like that make assessing the technology as a whole difficult, but the hardware itself isn't really that impressive, which is why some people say it isn't "next gen." What I think they really mean to say is that the Wii U doesn't have next generation hardware, even though it is a next generation console.

Probably one of the most intelligent and well thought out points on this thread. I thoroughly enjoyed reading it, and believe that you have finally got to the root of all of this "Wii U is not next gen" nonsense when you spoke of it having some previous gen technology. Excellent job.

Captain_Balko

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Midnight3DS

137. Posted:

" What I think they really mean to say is that the Wii U doesn't have next generation hardware, even though it is a next generation console"

This seemed pretty obvious from the get go.

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DefHalan

138. Posted:

Tainy wrote:

I don't understand how people can argue so much about this. The Wii U is a next generation console. It is impossible to argue otherwise. The word "generation" takes no regard to the attributes of the subject in question. My friend's aunt has a daughter who has slight physical deformities and is mentally challenged. She will grow to be less intelligent and physically weaker than her parents. She is still a part of the next generation of her family and will be loved just the same.

offspring of parents=next generation

The Wii U is clearly a next generation console—Nintendo's next generation product.

Now where I think some of the confusion comes from is disagreement in what constitutes next generation technology. The Wii U has more and faster RAM than either the PlayStation 3 or Xbox 360 and has a marginally improved GPU, however, the processor appears to be weaker than either last generation console. One could pretty easily argue by those merits that the Wii U does not implement next generation technology, or at least significantly next generation. There are some complicating factors in that assessment though. There are some features in the Wii U that simply don't exist in last generation consoles, such as the GamePad screen and Miiverse. Things like that make assessing the technology as a whole difficult, but the hardware itself isn't really that impressive, which is why some people say it isn't "next gen." What I think they really mean to say is that the Wii U doesn't have next generation hardware, even though it is a next generation console.

http://dudehugespeaks.tumblr.com/post/44243746261/nickels-dimes-and-quarters
http://www.penny-arcade.com/patv/episode/why-console-specs-dont-matter
http://www.gamasutra.com/view/news/200271/Video_Don_Daglow_on_nextgen_transition_traps_and_treasures.php

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Captain_Balko

139. Posted:

Midnight3DS wrote:

" What I think they really mean to say is that the Wii U doesn't have next generation hardware, even though it is a next generation console"

This seemed pretty obvious from the get go.

In that case, they really should have stated that instead of saying that the Wii U is not considered a next generation console. I don't know enough about hardware specifications to argue that - however, I do know enough about the English language to argue the misuse of words.

Edited on by Captain_Balko

Captain_Balko

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CanisWolfred

140. Posted:

And lacking Next Gen technology means it's not next gen.

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