Retro Forum

Topic: Retro Consoles to HDTV?

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Moviefan2k4

1. Posted:

I read the articles from 2011 about scalers, but is there a reliable American source for AV to HDMI converters? I have an NES, SNES, Genesis, and N64 that I want to play on my new 40" LCD HDTV.

God, guns, and guts made America; let's keep all three.

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Tasuki

2. Posted:

Where's Waveboy when you really need him? ;)

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Moviefan2k4

3. Posted:

I'm new here, so I've never heard of him.

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WaveyChristmas

4. Posted:

Tasuki wrote:

Where's Waveboy when you really need him? ;)

lol. Sorry, i've got nothing really to add on this one as far as scaling goes....Just play your retro consoles on an SDTV Tube CRT(25"-27" is the best size imo) as they were intended to be played. Really, they go for pennies and will provide better picture quality, performance(zero lag), Perfect motion handeling(unlike those smeary 'Drunk O' vision' LCD and LED's), amazing black levels and a Nostalgic punch than on any silly HDTV. ;)

The plasmas I've played on faired the best with retro consoles, but that's really only because of the superior motion handeling and black levels, otherwise it just didn't feel right... For the NES, when the screen scrolled on my previous 2 Plasmas and LCD a weird dithering-like effect would hit the background... And that lag? No way. I can't deal. I'm pretty sure sending an HDTV an interlaced signal bumps it up in comparison to progressive scan since it has to de-interlace the singal. Eitherway, I'd go for the lag free + Nostalgic CRT retro experience. It just can't be beat!

But yup! My brother just sold me his killer 27" Tube CRT SDTV which he's going to be bringing over tomorrow. I'm super stoked! It's got component cable inputs as well, so it's a perfect match for the Wii, outside of my NES, SNES, VHS, DVD player and future Atari 2600. B-)

Edited on by WaveyChristmas

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dartmonkey

5. Posted:

I agree with WaveBoy that CRT is best but it's just not practical for many. They're massive and heavy and most people just don't have the space for them. That being the case, what's the next best alternative?

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WaveyChristmas

6. Posted:

@dartmonkey
The closest thing to CRT is plasma plain and simple. And yeah, CRT's are dinosaur heavy, that is if you're going over 27". :p
27" and under don't take up that much space at all actually, and even so the advantages in PQ and performance are totaly worth it.

Currently Playing: Kirby's Dreamland 2!
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80s FANATIC & King of NES Tekkidome!

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nocode

7. Posted:

I grew up with all the classics... so i'm definitely in the camp that says CRT TV or nothing for retro gaming. I've got a 21' Toshiba CRT (Flat screen) and my nes, snes, genesis, and atari 2600 all look fantastic on it. Fits perfectly in the corner of my home office. It's got a big enough screen to enjoy the games, but also small enough to not be a big heavy pain in the ass. Got it for $30 in the classifieds.

I've yet to see a plasma or lcd where any of those consoles look good, or do not suffer tons of lag.

nocode

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dartmonkey

8. Posted:

@WaveBoy
I totally agree that CRT wins. I used to have a big old Trinitron, beautiful thing. BUT, having a CRT solely for retro isn't practical for many people. Most people even. They've got wives or partners or roommates or kids or tiny apartments or limited power sockets and all sorts of restrictions. The guy's got a new 40" LCD. What's the best way for him to play an N64 through it without it looking like complete dogshite? Ever since my old Sony died my N64 just looks like crap whatever I put it through. A CRT for retro gaming and TNG VHSs just isn't an option for me :(

Sticky fingers and glossy pads mix only too well

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nocode

9. Posted:

I'd try amazon.com or tigerdirect.com for AV to HDMI converters. Both sites have lots to choose from, just check the reviews. I see alot of reviews on amazon specifically mentioning the snes and genesis and their experience with the converter...

for example - http://www.amazon.com/Mini-White-CVBS-Composite-Converter/dp/...

nocode

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RancidVomit86

10. Posted:

CRT FTW

Edited on by theblackdragon

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Ryno

11. Posted:

@Moviefan2k4: Does your LCD TV not have a composite connection? My plasma does and I can hook my NES and SNES that way no problemo.

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Moviefan2k4

12. Posted:

It does have one, but I've never used that kind of input before. The original NES has red and yellow AV, while the SNES and N64 have multi-out AV. I don't have any component cables, or a switcher box, and I have no idea how to get component from AV.

Edited on by Moviefan2k4

God, guns, and guts made America; let's keep all three.

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apowes

13. Posted:

Some LCDs (such as many Vizios) integrate component video (red/green/blue) and composite video (yellow) into one.

On these TVs, you accomplish this by plugging the yellow video input from your N64/SNES/VCR/etc. into the GREEN input of the component input on the TV.

Not all TVs are this way!!! So check your user manual! But it's possible. As I said, I've personally seen this on Vizio TVs.

Just to clarify the terminology:
Composite video sends its signal through a single Yellow input.
Component video sends its signal through THREE inputs: red, green, and blue.
Red/white are audio.

apowes

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RancidVomit86

14. Posted:

I have honestly never had a problem playing any of my old games on my LCD TV but I'm still just a fan of them being on CRT.

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SCAR392

15. Posted:

Just get a small 19" inch flatscreen CRT. Those go for around $20 and the dimensions are usually 2.5 x 1.75 x 1.75 feet. I used to use one of those for retro gaming. Then, I would just plug a headphone jack into my reciever for multichannel stereo. I went digital though with my setup focused around HD, so now I'm trippin' out to Mario Kart 64 in 480p :P ;)

Edited on by SCAR392

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Moviefan2k4

16. Posted:

apowes wrote:

Some LCDs (such as many Vizios) integrate component video (red/green/blue) and composite video (yellow) into one.

On these TVs, you accomplish this by plugging the yellow video input from your N64/SNES/VCR/etc. into the GREEN input of the component input on the TV.

I tried that, and the message on my TV said "Mode Not Supported".

God, guns, and guts made America; let's keep all three.

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WaveyChristmas

17. Posted:

dartmonkey wrote:

@WaveBoy
I totally agree that CRT wins. I used to have a big old Trinitron, beautiful thing. BUT, having a CRT solely for retro isn't practical for many people. Most people even. They've got wives or partners or roommates or kids or tiny apartments or limited power sockets and all sorts of restrictions. The guy's got a new 40" LCD. What's the best way for him to play an N64 through it without it looking like complete dogshite? Ever since my old Sony died my N64 just looks like crap whatever I put it through. A CRT for retro gaming and TNG VHSs just isn't an option for me :(

I hear what you're saying, but a 20" CRT for example is barely over 2 feet from front to back, it's only a one man job to lift the thing, and again cost pennies. But if you truley don't have the space, then well...I guess I'd recommend scoring an s-video cable for his 40" LCD, which is typically compatible with both the SNES and N64. It will provide better PQ over basic composite but that's about it. Reducing a bit of input lag can be done by hitting up game mode and disabling or turning things off like color management and video noise reduction ect, and after that?...Hope for the best. :p

On another, yet HDTV related note. i feel that HD gaming was exposed a bit too early in the game. Think about it, when the XBOX 360 was released back in late 05' both LCD(especially) and Plasma technology(aside from maybe Pioneer)had TERRIBLE picture quality. I'm talking GREY black levels, awful motion blur(Still a problem with modern LCD and LED's...Panasonics 2500hz plasmas however are top notch, But even then they still can't match CRT motion). It's absolutely hilarious... I mean, you could of scored a 32" Fullscreen Sony wega CRT(component compatible) for half the price of an HDTV during that time and the core picture quality(outside of not having that extra HD resolution & Widescreen fit) completely OBLITERATED every flat panel on the market haha. I could not for the life of me game on either technology during the early whirly HDTV years, they were both severely flawed...

And then you have the entire input lag ordeal which is another problem all together which sadly still exsists today. I'm so glad i stuck with my 32" CRT for the wii which i bought back in late 05', i got the real deal performance wise, without any input lag/hiccup. Amazing blacks, perfect motion, a bright and colorful picture. There was nothing funky going on. I didn't NEED HD during the time especially if i had to make huge sacrifices(motion,black levels, lag ect) in order to get it it. my Sony wega CRT was awesome! Yet I had to downgrade to a 27" CRT to make room for my 60" 1080p plasma.

Edited on by WaveyChristmas

Currently Playing: Kirby's Dreamland 2!
We shall swim to Bubble Island, or you will suffer the wrath of my Trident Laser!
80s FANATIC & King of NES Tekkidome!

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SCAR392

18. Posted:

I agree. HD was just an ideal setup people knew about, but couldn't afford, so it didn't really matter. I have a 1080 Insignia 60hz, and that should last me quite a while before anthing worthwhile to me comes out again. I notice that Runner 2 looks better in 120hz, but it feels like there'a more lag than 60hz. IMO, nothing over 60hz will matter until there are is content with 120 or so hz.
Even Sony TVs usually have the 24p feature. That would be ideal I would think.
480hz seems like it would be perfect to me, but I won't be buying another TV until 4k/8k come out with glasses free 3D.

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WaveyChristmas

19. Posted:

@SCAR392
Yeah, they say gamers should aim for the 60hz LCD/LED's since 120hz and 240hz bump up the input lag. I previously had an LG 60hz LK450 LCD which actually only had 1 frame/16ms(reason why i bought it) of lag when using component cables. But the motion blur(Noticably a bit worse since it's a VA panel in comparison to an IPS 'Alpha' panel) and terrible black levels ruined practicallly all of my gaming experiences and ALL of my movie experiences. It also suffered from Clouding and back light bleeding. :p And seriously, what good is HD(or even 480p), when detail is being blurred(as if it's below 100p.lol)like a VHS tape on crack when things are moving beyond a snails pace in anything 3rd or first person based? slower titles like Kirby's Epic Yarn, Super Mario Galaxy and what have you faired better, but Rayman origins was god awful. Once you start running the entire background became one smeary mess.

I've been through 3 plasmas of my own and NONE of them have this problem. It's a complete night and day difference. And while 120hz and 240hz help eliminate blur in film, they give film that horrible soap operah effect. I've seen the latest and greatest LED's and the technology is just not for me. it's got it's strong points. But why settle for anything less motion wise when a technology such as CRT that has been around for YEARS has already perfected it. Higher end LED's blacks may have gotten better, but they seem to dim part of the picture when trying to achieve them...Panasonics 1080p plasmas are always rated t number #1 for a reason. If i weren't a gamer i would get the Panny 2013 2500hz 55" or 60" ST60 and call it a day.lol But it's pushing over 4 frames of lag for gaming so it's no longer an option. As of 2012, Panasonic plasmas are no longer thee' choice for gaming anymore because of this erason. However, PQ wise, the blacks are outstanding(It's now reaching a mute point) It's very Bright, the color gamut is extremely wide and the 2500hz motion can't be beat unless you're CRT.wink*

Anyways! The next HDTV i'll buy will be a Super OLED, whenever they actually become affordable! :p For now I've got a retro boner for CRT(NES,SNES,VHS,DVD), and a 60" Plasma(that does 1 frame of lag via component) for my unopened(lol) WiiU & Bluray that needs to be calibrated. Stupid red & green push and effed up gamma. :P

Edited on by WaveyChristmas

Currently Playing: Kirby's Dreamland 2!
We shall swim to Bubble Island, or you will suffer the wrath of my Trident Laser!
80s FANATIC & King of NES Tekkidome!

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apowes

20. Posted:

Awesome info!

For a certain period of time near the end of CRT dominance, they were producing HD CRTs. My family has a 1080i Widescreen CRT. It even has a component input that supports 480p, which is perfect for Wii.

I imagine HD CRTs might still cost a decent penny today, at least compared to non HD CRTs (which sell for super cheap on Craigslist).

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