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Topic: The Nintendo Switch Thread

Posts 11,401 to 11,420 of 13,536

gcunit

@Mississauga I feel you may have a bit of catching up to do...

Right now in my head, it's all horses, horses, horses, food, and horses.

skywake

I'm not sure if anyone has posted this but there's a leak of a screenshot of a benchmark run on the Switch. Almost surely done on a dev-kit and not really verifiable at all. But in any case, here's the raw performance numbers:

Undocked: 375 GFLOPs
Docked: 876 GFLOPs

The first one is about in-line with what we knew we were getting based on how well BotW and Mario Kart 8 were running undocked. But frankly I'm surprised by that second number, it's a bit higher than what I would have expected. This thing is going to get pretty close to the XBOne.

Edited on by skywake

Some good Aussie musics: King Gizzard, Pond, The Avalanches
"Don't stir the pot" is a nice way of saying "they're too dumb to reason with"

dtjive

skywake wrote:

I'm not sure if anyone has posted this but there's a leak of a screenshot of a benchmark run on the Switch. Almost surely done on a dev-kit and not really verifiable at all. But in any case, here's the raw performance numbers:

Undocked: 375 GFLOPs
Docked: 876 GFLOPs

The first one is about in-line with what we knew we were getting based on how well BotW and Mario Kart 8 were running undocked. But frankly I'm surprised by that second number, it's a bit higher than what I would have expected. This thing is going to get pretty close to the XBOne.

Do you have the picture?

dtjive

rallydefault

@skywake
Yea, I've been seeing those numbers. There's a lot of doubt that they are for the Switch, though.

rallydefault

skywake

@dtjive
https://www.reddit.com/r/NintendoSwitch/comments/5v1m1l/switc...

@rallydefault
Yeah, there's a lot of scepticism. But it is well within the ballpark of what it could be. It's still a bit on the higher side of what I was expecting. Which makes me sceptical because I had always assumed I was being a little bit optimistic about the spec....

Some good Aussie musics: King Gizzard, Pond, The Avalanches
"Don't stir the pot" is a nice way of saying "they're too dumb to reason with"

Grandpa_Pixel

@skywake I got to play the device in January. I can easily believe this thing to be the powerhouse rumours are claiming it to be. Never has Mario Kart 8 been so smooth and so pretty.

Fortunately all this tech talk is not for me. I prefer to enjoy a console for what it is than what it could have been. And I am already sold thanks to games like Arms

Grandpa_Pixel

gcunit

The good news: @the-madprofessor just mentioned seeing a trailer on UK's ITV yesterday. I also saw a trailer, probably the same one, on UK's Channel 4+1 last night.

The bad news: It was a 1-2-Switch trailer. Which seems to indicate Nintendo sees the UK market as the fluffy casuals, and it also means everyone previously unaware of the Switch now just thinks it's another 'wave your arms in the air' experience.

Still, on balance, hopefully any advertising is better than no advertising.

9

Right now in my head, it's all horses, horses, horses, food, and horses.

StuTwo

Ersatz wrote:

I'm pretty excited for the Switch (I'd probably be beyond insane with hype if I was a few years younger), but I constantly see negativity (not as much as the Wii U days tho). What's the source of all this negativity towards Nintendo? Did I miss some event since I was playing the NES?

Even in the NES days there was a widespread sentiment "in the wild" that Nintendo was holding things back, charging too much for old technology, and "for kids". Home computers were far more powerful and had some very deep (though not necessary fun and definitely not accessible) strategy and simulation games. Western arcades were full of over the top blood, guts and gore that would never have and this type of game was reflected in the game libraries on just about every gaming platform - but less so on the NES.

At the time however Nintendo had a few big leading edge "hands down best in class" games that were impossible for their detractors to deny. They also benefited from the less sophisticated mass market mentally lumping 3rd party games with more mature set dressing like Castlevania and Contra in as "Nintendo games". So there was a broader base of people who could identify with "Nintendo games".

But no, the sneering, dismissive attitude towards Nintendo really does back to the beginning and has carried on right through to the modern times. It may feel amplified today for a few reasons.

  • Specialist websites aren't representative - they're disproportionately populated by teenage boys and young men who are more inclined to like genres like competitive PVP FPSs and are also more likely to get involved in discussions about graphical fidelity (i.e. they're a demographic group that's pretty much always going to be less responsive to Nintendo - general gaming websites will always be somewhat "hostile terrain" for them)
  • Western publishers are far bigger and better resourced than they were in the past and they have the advantage of natively understanding what is likely to be well recieved and successful in Western markets than Nintendo and they understand the Western games media far better. They are collectively able to control the agenda and since Nintendo doesn't fit easily into the agenda they wish to set they stand out as "different".
  • Nintendo has been very poor at marketing their products for the past 15 years (with a few exceptions - the early days of the Wii and DS were marketing master classes). Their advertising has generally been even worse than the rest of their marketing and they've struggled to communicate exactly who their consoles and games are for and to understand exactly how to reach them.
  • Dissonance between Nintendo in Japan and Nintendo of America (and Nintendo of Europe). Japan has been supplying wonderful round pegs and America and Europe have been trying to fit them into square holes.

I think the reality of the negative tone surrounding Nintendo is really a reflection of the fact that Nintendo has lost control of how they are viewed and never developed a simple, strong and cohesive vision that their proponents can project and amplify. i.e. if we, the Nintendo fans don't know exactly what Nintendo wants to be or for whom then how can we tell others?

This is one of the reasons why the Wii is still a huge elephant in the room when it comes to Nintendo. It muddied the waters of "what" Nintendo stands for.

I definitely feel the marketing behind the Switch is much much stronger than we've seen from them in a long time. It won't dispel the negativity you see on typical gaming websites but over time it has the potential to give Nintendo a more cohesive and identity in the West and if it does the conversations surrounding it will be far more positive.

StuTwo

skywake

@Grandpa_Pixel
Well ultimately it is about the games but specs are still interesting. If those numbers are accurate then it's sitting very comfortably above the Wii U, PS3 and 360 spec while in portable mode. And while docked it's closer to the XBOne than the Wii U.

Edited on by skywake

Some good Aussie musics: King Gizzard, Pond, The Avalanches
"Don't stir the pot" is a nice way of saying "they're too dumb to reason with"

the-madprofessor

@gcunit Over on Reddit, someone said they saw a Zelda ad on Comedy Central (https://www.reddit.com/r/NintendoSwitch/comments/5v5fbk/uk_12_switch_advert_states_27_games/ddzuxbh/). Hopefully that comes over to the main channels, but I'm just glad they're actually advertising anything. Part of Splatoon's success in the UK was due to its strong advertising campaign.

the-madprofessor

Nintendo Network ID: the-madprofessor

gcunit

@StuTwo Good post.

The success of the DS and the Wii was a bit of poisoned chalice. I think there were probably too many naive people, not experienced in the purchasing video games, who bought poor quality software at fairly high prices because they didn't know better, and felt burned by it all. Couple that with the waggle, touch controls and low-res graphics, and I think Nintendo's most successful period actually did a fair bit of damage in some respects. That's a big reason why the Wii U struggled, I think - hangover from the Wii shovelware.

Right now in my head, it's all horses, horses, horses, food, and horses.

skywake

@gcunit
It's to be expected but, success in the gaming industry does tend to run in cycles. It's an industry built on having new and different experiences. After a period of low-specs, motion controls and Nintendo's IP? People were going to shift somewhere else. And now we're in a period of cookie-cutter HTPC boxes trying to win us over with 4K and VR. Nintendo being all about portability is refreshing.

Some good Aussie musics: King Gizzard, Pond, The Avalanches
"Don't stir the pot" is a nice way of saying "they're too dumb to reason with"

StuTwo

gcunit wrote:

@StuTwo Good post.

The success of the DS and the Wii was a bit of poisoned chalice. I think there were probably too many naive people, not experienced in the purchasing video games, who bought poor quality software at fairly high prices because they didn't know better, and felt burned by it all. Couple that with the waggle, touch controls and low-res graphics, and I think Nintendo's most successful period actually did a fair bit of damage in some respects. That's a big reason why the Wii U struggled, I think - hangover from the Wii shovelware.

I think it was definitely a poisoned chalice. They effectively broke off any form of meaningful contact and dialogue with the "hardcore gamers" that set the tone online. It's one of the things that's made it hard for Nintendo to position themselves or even know which markets they actually want to target.

I do think, however, that many of the people who bought what we (on this forum) would consider poor shovelware may have had a lot of entertainment from those games regardless. Although there were certainly a lot who spent a lot of money on a Wii and didn't play it very much who might have regretted it afterwards the same is true of board games like Monopoly.

How many £50 copies of Monopoly get sold every year and how many people actually play it more than once a year? Do people regret spending that money in hindsight?

What's definitely true is that Nintendo failed to keep up with the expectations of the "casual gamers" they brought into the industry. That group places a different (and lower) value on games definitely invests less money and usually less time. Which is why they're now all in on free to play mobile games.

Contrary to what a lot of people think, Nintendo can win that audience back - but probably not with a device that's specced, priced and marketed to provide a platform for the big 1st party games to sell on. It's a big dilema for Nintendo as a business.

StuTwo

KirbyTheVampire

BiasedSonyFan wrote:

@gcunit @StuTwo

This stupid dialogue about "casual gamers" is getting really tiresome. For whatever reason, we "real gamers" have to keep crying about how "casual gamers" have ruined our precious Nintendo or how much Nintendo "needs" the approval of "real gamers".

It's really simple: Nintendo just wants to make video games that they think people of all ages can enjoy, and they want to make a profit from it. The "poisoned chalice" that you talk about allowed Nintendo to make those video games to the tune of billions (not millions, billions) of dollars in profits. Mission accomplished, and no amount of petulant whining from "real gamers" is going to change that. Nintendo then had a setback (losing some millions) during the Wii U era. So what? That's business. It's actually remarkable that there's so much noise about those losses given that it's the only era during which Nintendo had any losses in company history.

Nintendo has moved on and is soon going to release the Switch. While they've fine-tuned their marketing campaign and business strategy, their core mission hasn't changed. At all.

Casual games and casual gamers themselves aren't a problem. The problem (for us anyway) is that the more they cater to the casual crowd, the more we, the fans, have games that generally don't appeal to us. Given the choice, most of us wouldn't willingly have a Wii-esque library, filled only with first party games and shovelware. Most people on forums such as these love Nintendo for the masterpieces that they create, not the watered down games like 1-2 Switch, Wii Sports, or other simple games that draw in the casuals. So like I said, the more the focus is on the casual gamer, the less the focus is on making games that aren't about waggling a controller to accomplish a simple goal in a mini game.

Maybe it's just a selfish thing on our part, but I think it's safe to say that very few of us are casuals, and we simply don't want Nintendo to cater to people who don't like the games that we do. The GameCube/N64/SNES days are often looked back on fondly by Nintendo fans for a reason. I don't know about you guys, but I've all but forgotten about the Wii, save for some of the gems that are in it's library, and I don't hear much nostalgia for that system from others, either.

Edited on by KirbyTheVampire

KirbyTheVampire

StuTwo

BiasedSonyFan wrote:

@gcunit @StuTwo

This stupid dialogue about "casual gamers" is getting really tiresome. For whatever reason, we "real gamers" have to keep crying about how "casual gamers" have ruined our precious Nintendo or how much Nintendo "needs" the approval of "real gamers".

It's really simple: Nintendo just wants to make video games that they think people of all ages can enjoy, and they want to make a profit from it. The "poisoned chalice" that you talk about allowed Nintendo to make those video games to the tune of billions (not millions, billions) of dollars in profits. Mission accomplished, and no amount of petulant whining from "real gamers" is going to change that. Nintendo then had a setback (losing some millions) during the Wii U era. So what? That's business. It's actually remarkable that there's so much noise about those losses given that it's the only era during which Nintendo had any losses in company history.

Nintendo has moved on and is soon going to release the Switch. While they've fine-tuned their marketing campaign and business strategy, their core mission hasn't changed. At all.

Relax.

I don't think that Nintendo has been "ruined" or that they need to satisfy me and only people like me. I love that their games are varied and testing what's possible in the industry. I think that Wii Sports is one of the best games ever made and even though they're not my thing I love that Nintendo made things like Nintendogs and Brain Training. It's not a route that I feel should be rejected (and not just because it's profitable but because I feel there's much more fun to be had!).

The Wii was however a poisoned chalice for Nintendo from a marketing perspective because they lost control of the marketing message surrounding them and lost contact and influence with particular groups that are important influencers. I think that the vision Nintendo has shown with Switch is very inclusive - it has room for "waggle" (I hate that term btw) alongside more "traditional" games like Zelda BoTW - but it's also far more cohesive than Wii U. They have a clearer idea of why people might buy 1-2 Switch than why people might have bought NintendoLand.

And this is reflected in the confidence of the advertising that follows the marketing.

...But 1-2 Switch could have been done on a much cheaper piece of hardware and sold 50 million units that would have been useless from the perspective of providing a platform for selling Zelda BoTW and similar experiences.

StuTwo

KirbyTheVampire

BiasedSonyFan wrote:

@KirbyTheVampire

Maybe it's just a selfish thing on our part...

It is. You're getting Zelda, Mario Kart, Splatoon, Mario, etc. in the same year. So what's the problem?

Last I checked we were talking about how the DS and Wii were poisoned chalices, not the Switch. I actually think the Switch's lineup is pretty good. I expected a bit more, considering Splatoon 2 and Mario Kart were low effort projects, and BotW was supposed to be a Wii U game and has been in development for years, not to mention LKD's rumored lineup that everyone was taking as absolute fact, but assuming they're not struggling to get games out there, they're probably saving those other games for later on to prevent droughts, and I'm good with that.

And like I said, it is just a selfish thing. I would enjoy it if the whole Switch library was for hardcore gamers, unless they came up with some very good casual games. That doesn't mean I think that's the smartest idea for them from a business standpoint. Even the PlayStation has games that casuals can get into. All I'm saying is I can sympathize with people like StuTwo and gcunit. No need to be so testy all the time, man. It's possible to disagree with someone without acting like we're all whiny children. No one wants to discuss anything with someone who can't be civil.

KirbyTheVampire

KirbyTheVampire

BiasedSonyFan wrote:

@KirbyTheVampire

Last I checked we were talking about how the DS and Wii were poisoned chalices, not the Switch.

And some of the best Nintendo video games I've ever played were on the Wii. The Wii U also had great video games.

So, again, what's the problem? Nintendo never "left" you.

There isn't a problem. I just hope, for me personally, that the Switch caters a little more to the hardcore crowd than the last two systems did. That's literally it. I'm not hating on Nintendo or anything. It's just what I personally want for the system. I'm not saying "Nintendo absolutely has to do this because reasons". They can pull another Wii and I'd still buy it for their first party games. It's their system, after all. I just hope that the Switch leans more toward the Gamecube side instead of the Wii. I don't think having personal hopes for the system is at all unreasonable.

Edited on by KirbyTheVampire

KirbyTheVampire

BigBadJohn

I really want an Animal Crossing announcement at E3. Generally the quick pick up and play nature is suited for handheld and as such the home console versions have never really worked. AC Switch could have the best of both worlds. Come on Nintendo, you owe me! I've been doing so much Switch PR with my friends and family. I've got 3 confirmed orders.

Edited on by BigBadJohn

SW-5512-0541-9236

Name the movie quote "Toolshed!"

KirbyTheVampire

BigBadJohn wrote:

I really want an Animal Crossing announcement at E3. Generally the quick pick up and play nature is suited for handheld and as such the home console versions have never really worked. AC Switch could have the best of both worlds. Come on Nintendo, you owe me! I've been doing so much Switch PR with my friends and family. I've got 3 confirmed orders.

I'm really hoping for an Animal Crossing announcement, too. Fingers crossed.

Edited on by KirbyTheVampire

KirbyTheVampire

scubydo

Anyone know if the "User ID" will be how we "friend" others, or will it still be based on our Nintendo Network ID?

RPG, FPS, Adventure,Action...oh I like 'em all!
New Switch ID: SW-3806-8055-1317

Nintendo Network ID: devineministry

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