Topic: Xenoblade Chronicles New3ds

@Spoony_Tech: I was afraid I'd need to start over, but I had a surprisingly easy time getting back into it from my latest save file. I had stopped in Satorl Marsh before (that part of the game was boring, which was why I stopped) and now I'm exploring a snowy mountain.

I'll probably stop at some point before I finish it, although I doubt I'll stay away from it as long this time. This is my only problem with long games: after a while, I get restless and want to play something else. The only long JRPGs that have kept my attention pretty much from beginning to end are Persona 4, Final Fantasy VII, Shin Megami Tensei IV, and Etrian Odyssey IV.

@Ralizah: Persona Q is one of those games as well as Stella Glow. In in the final stages of that as well. I've been getting better about stick with the games in playing.

@Spoony_Tech: Regarding Stella Glow... does it get better after the prologue? I played the demo and was bored senseless, but people keep talking about how good the game is.

@Ralizah: I think it does but if you felt that way from just the demo I would hold out till you can get it at the price you want. I prefer this to FE Awakening but both are great games.

Don't rely on the validation of others. If the game bores you senseless, then it's likely that the full game will as well. I'm actually really glad that Square Enix issued a demo version of Bravely Default because I fell asleep mid-game out of boredom (my 3DS' battery probably died while I was asleep). If not for the demo, I would have bought the game simply because it's "critically acclaimed". You don't need another person's approval to like or dislike something.

@Spoony_Tech: Thanks. Considering it's an Atlus-published game, I'm sure it'll go on sale for $15 or $10 at some point. I'll pick it up then.

I should start Persona Q. I love Persona and Etrian Odyssey games, so I doubt there will be anything about it that I don't love.

Spoony and I have fairly complimentary tastes, and demos aren't always fully representative of the full game. so I'll always take his opinion of a JRPG or SRPG into consideration.

Speaking of demos that aren't fully representative of the games they're for... BD's demo only showed off the combat. The actual flow of the game is nothing like the demo.

I think the interesting thing is that I assumed at the time that the demo was boring because it entirely lacked story.

Then I realized the mechanics in Bravely Default are better than the narrative. Seriously, that game got way too much praise considering the horribly weak characterization and voice acting. This being a Xenoblade thread, I feel like comparison alone justifies my opinion on this. I mean, in Xenoblade we didn't spend an insulting amount of time having a ladies man/pervert reminds us EVERY CONVERSATION EVER that he's a ladies man/pervert. Because that would be stupid.

@kkslider5552000: To be fair, though, Reyn goes out of his way every chance he gets to demonstrate that he's an idiot. And Riki goes out of his way to demonstrate that he's an annoying little furball.

It's just their characterization, like Ringabel's characterization is that of a perpetually horny "ladies' man."

I thought Ringabel was hilarious, so it didn't bother me. If you didn't find it amusing, though, I could see why you wouldn't like it.

My biggest non-gameplay problem with Bravely Default is that the entire second half of the game could have been avoided if people had stopped and talked to one-another for a few moments

No, they had other traits that are consistently apparent that makes them far more likable and deeper than just their own archetypes. Even if they over-rely on those characteristics at points, that over-reliance is still fairly consistently surrounded by them saying things that give them some level of depth. Even at the start when they were most a stereotype Reyn was always overprotective and Riki always had his deeper issues with why he was chosen to be Heropon, just to give a small example of that. The irony is that I do have some issues with characterization in that game, but it is still way better. (also, Xenoblade has the advantage of the in-battle dialogue, which in its own way makes the characters more likable, if sometimes unintentionally (ala the hilarious overused Star Fox 64 quotes)).

And also voices were done like they were characters, instead of a trope disguised as a character. Obviously comparing Xenoblade's British dubbed voice acting with Bravely Default's Japanese voice acting is unfair or at least difficult to do but I feel I have a pretty objective point here. I still don't know wtf the Japanese voice acting was doing. It's hard for me to describe but it always felt over-the-top in a bad, cheesy, kid anime sort of way. Even compared to the bad cheesy kid anime I've seen! And it never felt genuine because as soon as they found an emotion they delivered it somehow the EXACT same way every single time, no matter the variation of the situation. If someone is angry, they are angry the exact same over-the-top way. If someone is happy, they will be that specific type of happy no matter what. It's so blatantly fake. It almost sounds like it should be a play, it's really weird.

@kkslider5552000: Ringabel has layers, too, even before he regains his lost memory and his personality changes, to some extent. He often is strangely insightful about human behavior, and grows to genuinely care for Edea in a non-pervy way. This depth is magnified when he remembers his time as Alternis Dim, and he becomes a more somber and serious character.

I'm not saying BD has great characters for a JRPG, but I do think you're exaggerating the extent to which the characters embody certain tropes.

I can't speak to the Japanese VA, unfortunately, as I experienced BD in English, but it wasn't bad. Spike Spencer is especially hilarious as Ringabel.

I'm pretty sure there had been like at least 2 hours of dialogue by that point and I'd put in...I dunno, 10-15 hours into this game. If a game can't grab ME by that point, it has failed. If the character improves, awesome, but don't expect me to spend more time when I'm already behind on every other video game essentially.

Nothing changes that he starts AWFUL. I've not hated a JRPG character this much (at least in a game that isn't wholly pathetic garbage like FFXIII) since Titus in FFX.

Ringabel is awesome. Fact. End of story. Case closed. Ádios.

@kkslider5552000: Shrugs
Some people just don't take to certain characters, I guess.

BD isn't really praised for its characters, though. Plot and character development aren't really its strong suits. Amazing music and an addictive battle and job system are, however.

yeah, that's just been a big pet peeve of mine since I played that game, because I wanted to love it and it is one of the most solid classic style JRPGs in quite a while in terms of gameplay.

But it isn't like I haven't defended characters that way more people hate so whatever...

though while I'm doing a part of Bravely Default I hated, I might as well bring up something about Xenoblade Chronicles that needs more appreciation. That game still has one of the best intros to a video game ever in terms of story. Like I get THE entirety of Dunban's story at that point just from what little they showed at the end of the battle of Sword Valley and I appreciate Mumkhar's betrayal more in that short amount of time than I would in many stories that put way more time into building it up. It establishes so many things so well it's quite brilliant. Like, I saw Jirard the Completionist play this section recently and he pretty much said that that alone was a satisfying story before even getting to the actual rest of the game and I entirely agree.

Even JRPGs I love frequently have really slow, not that strong intros (more like first 5+ hours sometimes), which I don't think is a good thing. It's fine to start slow but you need to do enough to get people invested ASAP. So doing that and THEN going to a slower intro with Shulk and friends was very smart.

@kkslider5552000: I actually really didn't care for the first twenty or so hours of XC. The intro was alright, but it wasn't impressive on a character level: the obviously evil guy (Mumkhar, right?) revealed himself to be obviously evil, and the obviously heroic and cocky guy used a magical sword to mow down hordes of enemies. Even though I like what went down with Fiora, the rest of the Colony 9 segment was boring. After that ended, it turned into Attack on Titan with ridiculous British robots. Gaur Plains was nice and open, but a bit empty. The Colony 6 segment was slow, although I really liked the introduction of Sharla. And the entirety of the Satorl Marsh segment almost made me quit playing the game entirely.

The first time I started feeling really engaged by the game was after Melia showed up. Alcamoth and Prison Island were both stellar as story set-pieces, and even though I'd guessed the big twist in this part of the game right after Metal Face first showed up near the beginning of the game, I still found it to be enthralling.

Yeah, it's not something deep or whatever but the simplicity is partially why it worked. I vastly prefer a strong, basic story over a flawed complex one though. And like I get why people would be meh towards it but even if I didn't enjoy the intro, objectively it's extremely well done and thought out.

On the flipside while the whole Alcamoth part is when I started to fully love the story in my first playthrough, on rewatch I find myself very disappointed in how super serious Melia's family is. I get why but it just doesn't work for me, barring what happens on Prison Island and Kallian's scenes way later. Though no one is saying anything bad about Prison Island, obviously. Everyone loves it, that's some classic middle of the series plot twist.

I agree with you kkslider, I think the beginning is brilliant. Obviously being introduced to the whole 2 giant robots thing is great. But then the way they manage to mix the semi-open world aspects with the story in the opening sequence is great, all whilst setting you up for the impending revenge narrative. I love it. It's up there with FF9 as my favourite starts to a story.

@Ralizah: Wow, I'm happy I just read your comment. I think it motivated me to continue on. I've just been released from being detained in a room @ Alcamoth but honestly I was starting to get board. I'm a completionist ...not a hardcore completionist, but I do try to find/collect most items, or search every corner, or complete every mission the best I can. I'm about 40 hours in and I was ready to move on to another game. I hate doing this because I really try to at least finish a game before I move on. I'm guessing I'm about to the midway point? But your post motivated me to continue on to what I'm hoping is the better half of the game. Although the intro was actually good.

Yeah, the game improves, in my opinion, once you get into the Alcamoth portion of it. If nothing else, definitely play at least till the end of Prison Island.