@orangepanda Ah I am missing the obvious analogy as others in the comments have already pointed out. Fan Fiction.
So the solution is to change the law. Right now the copyright holder has "exclusive right to prepare derivative works based upon [their] copyrighted work."
Change that to COMMERCIAL derivative works and I think that would be fair.
@Nemesis666 I agree that companies are not our friends. However, companies try to make themselves appear as friends, so my point is that they should at least try and be consistent about things. They should either blatantly show that they are not our friends and DO take downs like this or blatantly show that they are our friends and DON'T do take downs like this.
@SwitchForce Actually thinking about this more, I am thinking it could possibly hold up for fair use. Also I'm not sure the creators are "benefiting" from their creation, so I'm not sure what you mean by that.
The first factor in the Fair Use Balancing Test is the "Purpose and Character of the Use" and the fact that this is non-commercial would be to the benefit of the Missing Link creator- although, that is not the final say.
I mean this is literally a new game, but built with Nintendo's artistic assets. The 1994 Supreme Court case discussed in that NOLO.com link "focuses on whether the new work merely supersedes the objects of the original creation, or whether and to what extent it is 'transformative,' altering the original with new expression, meaning, or message."
That last bit: transformative = altering the original with new expression, meaning, or message. Watching playthroughs of it right now and I don't see how it's not adding new meaning and message (maybe not expression).
I am betting Nintendo is relying HEAVILY on factor 4 of the balancing test: "The effect of the use on the potential market for or value of the work". And I think that is very weak. I literally want to play OoT after watching these playthroughs.
The way I see it, it seems very similar to a mashup artist. They are using the artist's literal musical assets to create a new work. Unfortunately, it looks like this is currently a super gray area: "There are currently no court opinions offering any guidelines on mashups, and there are no distinct legal guidelines for determining whether or not a non-parodic work is protected under fair use." (source https://www.rocketlawyer.com/blog/mashups-and-sampling-whats-fair-use-97506).
Also, I think a nontrivial distinction is that the creator is not actually delivering a playable game- rather a patch to a game that the player must already legally own. I bet a court would have something nuanced to say about that distinction.
I could be very wrong about this. Also, just because something is the law right now doesn't mean we can't change it so that these kind of fan games are legitimate under fair use in the future. I know you are not arguing against that point, but just thought it worthwhile to being up.
@AstroQuote You are spot on about the trust thing. Nintendo's lack of trust in their fans is disappointing.
Part of nurturing a healthy fandom is saying, "Hey, we see how much work you've done and appreciate how much you love us". Instead of bringing the hammer of doom those fans who love them the most. Does Nintendo exist WITH the fans or exist to SELL stuff to the fans? An intelligent company would at least try and create the facade of existing WITH the fans, instead of being a dark separate monolith from them.
@Tyranexx I am thankful no one cares you happen to disagree with how these magical things were obtained.
Nintendo needs to realize that when they create content that is so dearly beloved, in a certain sense they truly do not have ownership over it anymore. Of course, they will never realize, admit, or understand this. Being so fearful and paranoid about protecting their IP feeds the narrative that their content is not the end in itself, but rather the means to the end of shareholder profits. So, what's the point of all this then?
Notably this is not unique to Nintendo- I just pick on Nintendo because I love them so deeply and we always tend to hold those things and people we care about to a higher standard.
@VinylCreep I think part of the problem is that if your claim to a score is found to be done on an emulated machine, there's no way to know if you somehow altered the emulation software to your advantage.
If there is to be legitimate competition, there has to be some way to ensure everyone can compete fairly (otherwise, what's the point?). As long as there is a reason to win a competition, there is a reason for someone to lie/cheat in order to make that win feasible for themselves, even if they might be otherwise trustworthy. The logical consequence of ensuring fair competition is that we can trust no one.
The only valid scores, in my mind, should be ones performed on hardware inspected by a neutral party and in the presence of tons of people... even then, there are ways to cheat, though. I suppose nothing can be completely fool(cheater)-proof.
Mind is getting blown here. There are some allegations that the whole King of Kong was setup.... maybe this breaking news is just more fake drama?
If Mitchell and Wiebe were in on it together, then they likely planned that whole tape score thing and thus were in on the emulation aspect of it, as well. Seems kind of insincere if they were in cahootze for only Micthell to go down without the whole truth being told. Who knows what the heck is real anymore, I guess.
Wow. I read this article this morning and was honestly confounded how anyone could care so much about this. And that LENGTHY statement made by Twin Galaxies... I was laughing because I couldn’t believe anyone would make such a big deal of this.
Then I watched that King of Kong doc... HOW MY VIEWS HAVE CHANGED. It feels like a true vindication for Wiebe. Even back in 2006 when that doc was made, it seemed like everyone knew Billy was a cheat... not sure why it took so long for this to come to an official head with Twin Galaxies.
By the end of that doc you could tell Walter Day was pulling for Wiebe. Day seemed like an upstanding guy. Hope Mitchell’s legacy goes down in the trash. I mean, I feel for the guy because it’s tough to lose your spot on top and lose the spotlight, but you gotta accept it when it happens for real and the way he conducted himself was so freaking sleazy. Must not have a lot of happiness going on in his life if he feels the need to act in such a despicable way just to stay on top (I mean back then, he probably hasn’t been on top for a while). So there needs to be some understanding there, but.... GO WIEBE.
@Frank-The-Tank "...every YouTube channel that covers games (reviews, let's plays, discussions, theories) puts whatever game they cover into the mind of their viewers."
this is so true. I have literally went out and purchased games after watching videos of them on YouTube. And some of the vids I just watched in a whim, not even searching for the particular game. I would have to hypothesize that Nintendo loses far more money by being this controlling.
@Constable_What The Nanking Massacre, while absolutely disgusting, in no way justifies the dropping of the atomic bombs. I'm not sure if that's what you were trying to say, but comparing atrocities doesn't really get us anywhere great. Keeping the Nanking Massacre in our mind is absolutely important, but it doesn't add much to the discussion of the dropping of the atomic bomb. The war was at a very different point when those two events happened. And, personally, I am speaking as a US Citizen, so I have a bias in that I am trying to hold MY OWN country more accountable to the atrocities it has committed in it's past (and present).
@TrueWiiMaster The very fact that you expect gratitude or a thank you is insulting. People shouldn't do things and expect a thank you- they should do them because they are the right things to do. As a US Citizen (not an "American", whatever that BS terms actually means) there are many things we should be very ashamed of, as well.
@GMB-001 YES! It was absolutely "bad guys vs bad guys". You nail the motives of US Empire right on the head. There was (and is) a lot of greed involved in the West's interest in controlling east Asia. The fact that the US didn't want to negotiate a treaty with Japan using USSR diplomats is very telling. The US didn't want to share it- period.
I think the real issue is with the article's title. @Damo I can tell you've thought a lot about the words in your article and seem to appreciate how controversial and heavy this topic is, but any title that paints Secretary Stimson has having "saved" anything seems gut-wrenching to me. He didn't save Kyoto as much as he simply deferred mass atrocity to a different location- a point which you do detail very well.
The man played such an overwhelming role in most despicable action in humanity's history. Nobody should ever thank Secretary Stimson for anything.
Painting an article's title as him having "saved" anything is where I think things are problematic. Maybe "Unintended Consequences of Harry Stimson's Existence" would be more suitable.
As a side note, anyone who tries to tell someone that they shouldn't be offended by something (without engaging them in discourse) is, frankly, insecure. People are offended by things for real reasons. If someone is offended by something, you should engage them and try and figure out why you see things differently. You can then debate specific points/merits instead of just saying "WUSSY".
Comments 17
Re: Review: J.R.R. Tolkien's The Lord of the Rings - Volume I (Super Nintendo)
HOW IN GOD’S HOLY WORLD IS THIS GAME PLAYABLE WITHOUT A MAP?!?!? AHEHHWHEHSBBSHSBJSJ
Re: Nintendo Lawyers Hit Fan-Made Zelda Game With Fatal Copyright Claim
@orangepanda Ah I am missing the obvious analogy as others in the comments have already pointed out. Fan Fiction.
So the solution is to change the law. Right now the copyright holder has "exclusive right to prepare derivative works based upon [their] copyrighted work."
Change that to COMMERCIAL derivative works and I think that would be fair.
Re: Nintendo Lawyers Hit Fan-Made Zelda Game With Fatal Copyright Claim
@Nemesis666 I agree that companies are not our friends. However, companies try to make themselves appear as friends, so my point is that they should at least try and be consistent about things. They should either blatantly show that they are not our friends and DO take downs like this or blatantly show that they are our friends and DON'T do take downs like this.
@SwitchForce Actually thinking about this more, I am thinking it could possibly hold up for fair use. Also I'm not sure the creators are "benefiting" from their creation, so I'm not sure what you mean by that.
Interesting article on the "Fair Use Balancing Test" https://copyright.columbia.edu/basics/fair-use.html
The first factor in the Fair Use Balancing Test is the "Purpose and Character of the Use" and the fact that this is non-commercial would be to the benefit of the Missing Link creator- although, that is not the final say.
I mean this is literally a new game, but built with Nintendo's artistic assets. The 1994 Supreme Court case discussed in that NOLO.com link "focuses on whether the new work merely supersedes the objects of the original creation, or whether and to what extent it is 'transformative,' altering the original with new expression, meaning, or message."
That last bit: transformative = altering the original with new expression, meaning, or message. Watching playthroughs of it right now and I don't see how it's not adding new meaning and message (maybe not expression).
I am betting Nintendo is relying HEAVILY on factor 4 of the balancing test: "The effect of the use on the potential market for or value of the work". And I think that is very weak. I literally want to play OoT after watching these playthroughs.
The way I see it, it seems very similar to a mashup artist. They are using the artist's literal musical assets to create a new work. Unfortunately, it looks like this is currently a super gray area: "There are currently no court opinions offering any guidelines on mashups, and there are no distinct legal guidelines for determining whether or not a non-parodic work is protected under fair use." (source https://www.rocketlawyer.com/blog/mashups-and-sampling-whats-fair-use-97506).
Also, I think a nontrivial distinction is that the creator is not actually delivering a playable game- rather a patch to a game that the player must already legally own. I bet a court would have something nuanced to say about that distinction.
Re: Nintendo Lawyers Hit Fan-Made Zelda Game With Fatal Copyright Claim
@SwitchForce How is it not transformative fair use?
https://www.nolo.com/legal-encyclopedia/fair-use-what-transformative.html
I could be very wrong about this. Also, just because something is the law right now doesn't mean we can't change it so that these kind of fan games are legitimate under fair use in the future. I know you are not arguing against that point, but just thought it worthwhile to being up.
Re: Nintendo Lawyers Hit Fan-Made Zelda Game With Fatal Copyright Claim
@BAN Please elaborate on how you think that is not actually a cogent statement. Seems pretty clear to me.
Re: Nintendo Lawyers Hit Fan-Made Zelda Game With Fatal Copyright Claim
@AstroQuote You are spot on about the trust thing. Nintendo's lack of trust in their fans is disappointing.
Part of nurturing a healthy fandom is saying, "Hey, we see how much work you've done and appreciate how much you love us". Instead of bringing the hammer of doom those fans who love them the most. Does Nintendo exist WITH the fans or exist to SELL stuff to the fans? An intelligent company would at least try and create the facade of existing WITH the fans, instead of being a dark separate monolith from them.
Re: Nintendo Lawyers Hit Fan-Made Zelda Game With Fatal Copyright Claim
It's too bad Nintendo is so afraid of those who love them the most. How can I play this game?
Re: N64 Prototypes And Source Code Reportedly Leaked - Super Mario 64, Zelda: Ocarina Of Time And More
@Tyranexx I am thankful no one cares you happen to disagree with how these magical things were obtained.
Nintendo needs to realize that when they create content that is so dearly beloved, in a certain sense they truly do not have ownership over it anymore. Of course, they will never realize, admit, or understand this. Being so fearful and paranoid about protecting their IP feeds the narrative that their content is not the end in itself, but rather the means to the end of shareholder profits. So, what's the point of all this then?
Notably this is not unique to Nintendo- I just pick on Nintendo because I love them so deeply and we always tend to hold those things and people we care about to a higher standard.
Re: Nintendo Music Copyright Takedowns Intensify As Another Prominent YouTuber Gets Hit
I've never known a company so good at pushing people away who simply want to enjoy their content.
Re: Pre-Orders For Banjo-Kazooie Statue By First 4 Figures Can Be Validated On 10th July
I don't remember Banjo's eyes looking like he was on PCP...
Re: Steve Wiebe Recognised As First Million Point Donkey Kong Record Holder As Billy Mitchell's Scores Are Nuked
@sauce ahahahah I had quite a good laugh. Thank you. Using his own words...
@Smigit
http://mynorthwest.com/955662/steve-wiebe-donkey-kong/?
Seems a pretty measured response, as expected.
Re: Steve Wiebe Recognised As First Million Point Donkey Kong Record Holder As Billy Mitchell's Scores Are Nuked
@VinylCreep I think part of the problem is that if your claim to a score is found to be done on an emulated machine, there's no way to know if you somehow altered the emulation software to your advantage.
If there is to be legitimate competition, there has to be some way to ensure everyone can compete fairly (otherwise, what's the point?). As long as there is a reason to win a competition, there is a reason for someone to lie/cheat in order to make that win feasible for themselves, even if they might be otherwise trustworthy. The logical consequence of ensuring fair competition is that we can trust no one.
The only valid scores, in my mind, should be ones performed on hardware inspected by a neutral party and in the presence of tons of people... even then, there are ways to cheat, though. I suppose nothing can be completely fool(cheater)-proof.
Re: Steve Wiebe Recognised As First Million Point Donkey Kong Record Holder As Billy Mitchell's Scores Are Nuked
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=_GH4tPq7034
Mind is getting blown here. There are some allegations that the whole King of Kong was setup.... maybe this breaking news is just more fake drama?
If Mitchell and Wiebe were in on it together, then they likely planned that whole tape score thing and thus were in on the emulation aspect of it, as well. Seems kind of insincere if they were in cahootze for only Micthell to go down without the whole truth being told. Who knows what the heck is real anymore, I guess.
Re: Steve Wiebe Recognised As First Million Point Donkey Kong Record Holder As Billy Mitchell's Scores Are Nuked
Wow. I read this article this morning and was honestly confounded how anyone could care so much about this. And that LENGTHY statement made by Twin Galaxies... I was laughing because I couldn’t believe anyone would make such a big deal of this.
Then I watched that King of Kong doc... HOW MY VIEWS HAVE CHANGED. It feels like a true vindication for Wiebe. Even back in 2006 when that doc was made, it seemed like everyone knew Billy was a cheat... not sure why it took so long for this to come to an official head with Twin Galaxies.
By the end of that doc you could tell Walter Day was pulling for Wiebe. Day seemed like an upstanding guy. Hope Mitchell’s legacy goes down in the trash. I mean, I feel for the guy because it’s tough to lose your spot on top and lose the spotlight, but you gotta accept it when it happens for real and the way he conducted himself was so freaking sleazy. Must not have a lot of happiness going on in his life if he feels the need to act in such a despicable way just to stay on top (I mean back then, he probably hasn’t been on top for a while). So there needs to be some understanding there, but.... GO WIEBE.
Re: Nintendo Changes Requirements For Its Controversial YouTube Creators Program
@Frank-The-Tank "...every YouTube channel that covers games (reviews, let's plays, discussions, theories) puts whatever game they cover into the mind of their viewers."
this is so true. I have literally went out and purchased games after watching videos of them on YouTube. And some of the vids I just watched in a whim, not even searching for the particular game. I would have to hypothesize that Nintendo loses far more money by being this controlling.
Re: Feature: How One Man Saved Kyoto - And Video Games - From The Atomic Bomb
@Constable_What The Nanking Massacre, while absolutely disgusting, in no way justifies the dropping of the atomic bombs. I'm not sure if that's what you were trying to say, but comparing atrocities doesn't really get us anywhere great. Keeping the Nanking Massacre in our mind is absolutely important, but it doesn't add much to the discussion of the dropping of the atomic bomb. The war was at a very different point when those two events happened. And, personally, I am speaking as a US Citizen, so I have a bias in that I am trying to hold MY OWN country more accountable to the atrocities it has committed in it's past (and present).
@TrueWiiMaster The very fact that you expect gratitude or a thank you is insulting. People shouldn't do things and expect a thank you- they should do them because they are the right things to do. As a US Citizen (not an "American", whatever that BS terms actually means) there are many things we should be very ashamed of, as well.
@GMB-001 YES! It was absolutely "bad guys vs bad guys". You nail the motives of US Empire right on the head. There was (and is) a lot of greed involved in the West's interest in controlling east Asia. The fact that the US didn't want to negotiate a treaty with Japan using USSR diplomats is very telling. The US didn't want to share it- period.
Re: Feature: How One Man Saved Kyoto - And Video Games - From The Atomic Bomb
I think the real issue is with the article's title. @Damo I can tell you've thought a lot about the words in your article and seem to appreciate how controversial and heavy this topic is, but any title that paints Secretary Stimson has having "saved" anything seems gut-wrenching to me. He didn't save Kyoto as much as he simply deferred mass atrocity to a different location- a point which you do detail very well.
The man played such an overwhelming role in most despicable action in humanity's history. Nobody should ever thank Secretary Stimson for anything.
Painting an article's title as him having "saved" anything is where I think things are problematic. Maybe "Unintended Consequences of Harry Stimson's Existence" would be more suitable.
As a side note, anyone who tries to tell someone that they shouldn't be offended by something (without engaging them in discourse) is, frankly, insecure. People are offended by things for real reasons. If someone is offended by something, you should engage them and try and figure out why you see things differently. You can then debate specific points/merits instead of just saying "WUSSY".