@SkullDragr I always dream for either Bo or Mike Tyson it would just be so mind bending and a great call back to the NES. Obviously it won't happen but maybe on some other level of the tower...
@Poodlestargenerica I read in an interview that the developers of the RPGs were left to make whatever they wanted because the GBC was so low on the company's radar but when they made Azkaban on the GBA they were really micromanaged and the final product wasn't even close to what they were aiming for. They weren't allowed to be book based on Azkaban.
The developers felt Chambers was their best work so it makes sense that you would have felt that way playing them.
@DWWM Actually Prisoner of Azkaban on GBA is the final game in the RPG trilogy and is really solid. I think each game is an improvement over the previous and it's a real bummer that the RPG series ended after only three games.
I've only played 1-4 on the NES and V on the SFC, V was my favorite but since the DS version is the only option I will vote for III on the NES instead.
@sixrings Well, good news! The 2 player Excitebike is actually not the arcade version. It's the one that's included on NES Online called Vs. Excitebike.
@Oddball83 I picked one up at Game Stop just a couple days ago and someone else said theirs had a couple too. Not sure if they are just old stock or not but there are some still out there at stores that were shut down for the past few months.
@KnightRider666 It's funny because I loved Pinball on the NES because I would use it as a calming game when I was a kid because it was slow paced and chill. The Arcade Archives version surprised me because the music is really intense and the ball zooms around the table. Still fun but a very different experience for me!
@scully1888 I really appreciate you taking the time to discuss this topic with me and I do mean that sincerely. As someone who is part of the machine I'm not really trying to convince you per se but just expressing my opinion on an issue that I am passionate about.
1. I understand the video game industry has decided that their medium is somehow different from all other art forms; I just happen to disagree with that opinion. I feel like that opinion combined with an insistence on whatever is newest is "the greatest ever" is part of what causes outsiders not to take video game criticism seriously.
2. It is important to remember that although Pong feels like the beginning of video games; they actually date back to 1940. I would say that from that 1940 up to the mid 70s is like the primitive era of film that you are referring to with the train pulling into the station, etc..
I think of Atari 2600 like the early talkies as it comes 37 years afterwards, which would be 1932 in film. The NES would come 45 years afterwards, which would place it right in line with Citizen Kane so I would say that my comparison does hold up.
Either way silent films like Metropolis, The General or Safety Last are not going to be enjoyed by most teenagers or even most adults but that doesn't cause film critics to rate them lower than the latest Transformers movie; they still get rated as 4 star all-time classics.
Music critics are the same way even though music is vastly different from film. Even though kids and many adults may not appreciate Beethoven or even The Beatles music critics don't suddenly rate them lower than Justin Bieber.
But in the video game industry a game as mediocre as Kirby Star Allies or as unmemorable as 50 indie titles released in 2018 will all suddenly get higher scores than games that absolutely stunned the world upon their release.
I guess I wish that video game critics treated their audiences as grown up as critics in every other art form do, no matter how different each art form is. I didn't always love Metropolis, Orson Welles, Beethoven and The Beatles. I just kept reading about how amazing they are (in the present tense, not "were" in the past tense). Because of this I took the time to get used to a different way that art was made and grew to love them. Critics in video games don't carry that torch for the older content in same way.
Games such as Haunted House, Adventure, Asteroids and Tempest are far more than 2 white lines and a ball and if newcomers were taught that then they would take the time to discover them.
Instead they are repeatedly told that you will only enjoy them if you have nostalgia goggles so they never give them the time that budding art lovers will give to the old greats of other art forms.
Anyway, although it may seem like I am ripping into you or this site; I truly do love this website and look forward to reading all the content you provide. Thanks for listening to my rant. I truly find your thoughts on this topic, as an insider, extremely interesting.
My comments weren't directed at you but to video game criticism as a whole. I have no idea if you personally ever feel tugged to score a game higher due to relationships but I do know for a fact that it happens and the data suggests that it happens on this site. Nothing unusual, though, it's an industrywide problem.
I also don't need you to tell me that you disagree with me that games should be scored by today's standards because that's what all video game websites do. I'm stating that is a problem.
I guess the key for me is, when Citizen Kane gets released on Bluray critics don't review it on whether the 15 year old neighbor or random soccer mom will like it, but rather on its merits as a film. But currently that is the opposite of how video game criticism works.
A great movie remains great regardless of the year, the same should be true for a video game. If it was amazing in 1988 it isn't suddenly "Not bad" or "Good" just because it is't made the way current games are made.
We should be teaching the next generation why they are great instead of always using the word "nostalgia" to explain why anyone would find them good.
I can't argue with your score of a 5 because maybe the controls are gamebreaking, I haven't actually played this release myself and this isn't anything personal against you but this is the latest example of the sad state of video game reviews. Attached below are Nintendo Life scores for some of the games that were considered groundbreaking upon release and were talked about for the entire span of the system as great games. The crazy part is that these scores are at or below the scores of whatever random indie games are released every week on the Switch - many of which are immediately forgotten about.
Scores from this site: Metroid - 6 Zelda II - 7 Legend of Zelda - 8 Final Fantasy - 7 Super Mario Bros. - 9 Super Mario Bros. 2 - 8 Super Mario Bros. 3 - 10 Kid Icarus - 6 Punch-Out!! - 8 Super C - 7 Ninja Gaiden - 8 Double Dragon II - 4 Mega Man - 7 Mega Man 2 - 9 Mega Man 3 - 9 Castlevania - 8 Castlevania III - 9
There are a couple reasons for this. One is that video game criticism can't seem to keep great critics like movies and music can. Because of this there are no gatekeepers to remind us that whatever is shiny and new isn't automatically better than the classics. It would be laughable to call every random new music and movie on par with the all-time great movies and albums but that is very commonplace in video game criticism.
The second problem is that video game critics have relationships (whether it be personal or just getting free download codes) with all of these companies so they don't want to rate their games too low whereas they have no relationship with whoever made old games so they feel much more free to grade games lower.
Finally, all of these old games are getting graded by today's standards. The fact that you feel a game is unplayable and therefore devoid of value just because you couldn't figure it out in a minute says alot. Many NES titles get lowered because they are difficult or obtuse. Just because gamers right now have to have their hands held so much doesn't mean that is the right way for games to be played - it is just what the majority prefers right now. Criticism should be about reviewing art in a timeless manner as opposed to in the moment at least that's how the great critics in other genres review art.
The funny thing about this list is that although it has some crazy choices it actually matches up perfectly with one aspect of Nintendo rankings. Nintendo always releases their systems in pairs:
pixel consoles - NES/SNES poly consoles - N64/GC motion controls- Wii/Wii U single screen handheld - GB(C)/GBA two screen handheld - DS/3DS
The funny thing is that the first iteration is always more successful but the second iteration always ends up being considered the better system. Even the comments section has alot of people (but not all obviously) matching up with this consensus. The upshot is we already know what Nintendo's next console will be - an upgraded hybrid system. The real question is what will Nintendo do 2 systems from now?
Comments 18
Re: 'Tetris Forever' Compiles More Than 15 Titles In A New Interactive Documentary
Time for Pokemon Tetris to make a comeback!!
Re: Sakurai Says Smash Bros. Ultimate's Next DLC Fighter Really Will Be The Last One
@SkullDragr I always dream for either Bo or Mike Tyson it would just be so mind bending and a great call back to the NES. Obviously it won't happen but maybe on some other level of the tower...
Re: Pokémon HOME Update To Add New Features And Special Bulbasaur, Squirtle Distribution
@LXP8 ready if you are
Re: Soapbox: Is The Best Harry Potter Game On Game Boy Color? Quite Possibly
@Poodlestargenerica I read in an interview that the developers of the RPGs were left to make whatever they wanted because the GBC was so low on the company's radar but when they made Azkaban on the GBA they were really micromanaged and the final product wasn't even close to what they were aiming for. They weren't allowed to be book based on Azkaban.
The developers felt Chambers was their best work so it makes sense that you would have felt that way playing them.
Re: Pokémon HOME Update To Add New Features And Special Bulbasaur, Squirtle Distribution
@LXP8 I'm around if you want to trade for one
Re: Soapbox: Is The Best Harry Potter Game On Game Boy Color? Quite Possibly
@DWWM Actually Prisoner of Azkaban on GBA is the final game in the RPG trilogy and is really solid. I think each game is an improvement over the previous and it's a real bummer that the RPG series ended after only three games.
Re: Pokémon HOME Update To Add New Features And Special Bulbasaur, Squirtle Distribution
@LXP8 I have plenty of Meltan if you want one but I can't help you on the others...
Re: Poll: What's The Best Dragon Quest Game?
I've only played 1-4 on the NES and V on the SFC, V was my favorite but since the DS version is the only option I will vote for III on the NES instead.
Re: Select Arcade Archives Games Are Currently On Sale On The Switch eShop
@sixrings Well, good news! The 2 player Excitebike is actually not the arcade version. It's the one that's included on NES Online called Vs. Excitebike.
Re: The Switch Has Been The Top Console In The US For 25 Months In A Row
@Agent721 Exactly the same situation for me. The amount of content on the Switch from throughout the history of video games is just astounding.
Re: Japanese Charts: Ring Fit Adventure Surpasses One Million Sales, Nintendo Takes Entire Top Ten
@Oddball83 I picked one up at Game Stop just a couple days ago and someone else said theirs had a couple too. Not sure if they are just old stock or not but there are some still out there at stores that were shut down for the past few months.
Re: Nintendo's 1984 Release VS. Wrecking Crew Joins The Arcade Archives This Week
@KnightRider666 It's funny because I loved Pinball on the NES because I would use it as a calming game when I was a kid because it was slow paced and chill. The Arcade Archives version surprised me because the music is really intense and the ball zooms around the table. Still fun but a very different experience for me!
Re: Feature: Which Nintendo Switch Game Did We Miss?
Steins Gate Elite
Re: Review: Atari Flashback Classics - This Dusty Collection Sadly Opts For Quantity Over Quality
Wow, apologies to all for that brick of text. I think I'll just go take some deep breaths in the corner...
Re: Review: Atari Flashback Classics - This Dusty Collection Sadly Opts For Quantity Over Quality
@scully1888 I really appreciate you taking the time to discuss this topic with me and I do mean that sincerely. As someone who is part of the machine I'm not really trying to convince you per se but just expressing my opinion on an issue that I am passionate about.
1. I understand the video game industry has decided that their medium is somehow different from all other art forms; I just happen to disagree with that opinion. I feel like that opinion combined with an insistence on whatever is newest is "the greatest ever" is part of what causes outsiders not to take video game criticism seriously.
2. It is important to remember that although Pong feels like the beginning of video games; they actually date back to 1940. I would say that from that 1940 up to the mid 70s is like the primitive era of film that you are referring to with the train pulling into the station, etc..
I think of Atari 2600 like the early talkies as it comes 37 years afterwards, which would be 1932 in film. The NES would come 45 years afterwards, which would place it right in line with Citizen Kane so I would say that my comparison does hold up.
Either way silent films like Metropolis, The General or Safety Last are not going to be enjoyed by most teenagers or even most adults but that doesn't cause film critics to rate them lower than the latest Transformers movie; they still get rated as 4 star all-time classics.
Music critics are the same way even though music is vastly different from film. Even though kids and many adults may not appreciate Beethoven or even The Beatles music critics don't suddenly rate them lower than Justin Bieber.
But in the video game industry a game as mediocre as Kirby Star Allies or as unmemorable as 50 indie titles released in 2018 will all suddenly get higher scores than games that absolutely stunned the world upon their release.
I guess I wish that video game critics treated their audiences as grown up as critics in every other art form do, no matter how different each art form is. I didn't always love Metropolis, Orson Welles, Beethoven and The Beatles. I just kept reading about how amazing they are (in the present tense, not "were" in the past tense). Because of this I took the time to get used to a different way that art was made and grew to love them. Critics in video games don't carry that torch for the older content in same way.
Games such as Haunted House, Adventure, Asteroids and Tempest are far more than 2 white lines and a ball and if newcomers were taught that then they would take the time to discover them.
Instead they are repeatedly told that you will only enjoy them if you have nostalgia goggles so they never give them the time that budding art lovers will give to the old greats of other art forms.
Anyway, although it may seem like I am ripping into you or this site; I truly do love this website and look forward to reading all the content you provide. Thanks for listening to my rant. I truly find your thoughts on this topic, as an insider, extremely interesting.
Re: Review: Atari Flashback Classics - This Dusty Collection Sadly Opts For Quantity Over Quality
My comments weren't directed at you but to video game criticism as a whole. I have no idea if you personally ever feel tugged to score a game higher due to relationships but I do know for a fact that it happens and the data suggests that it happens on this site. Nothing unusual, though, it's an industrywide problem.
I also don't need you to tell me that you disagree with me that games should be scored by today's standards because that's what all video game websites do. I'm stating that is a problem.
I guess the key for me is, when Citizen Kane gets released on Bluray critics don't review it on whether the 15 year old neighbor or random soccer mom will like it, but rather on its merits as a film. But currently that is the opposite of how video game criticism works.
A great movie remains great regardless of the year, the same should be true for a video game. If it was amazing in 1988 it isn't suddenly "Not bad" or "Good" just because it is't made the way current games are made.
We should be teaching the next generation why they are great instead of always using the word "nostalgia" to explain why anyone would find them good.
Re: Review: Atari Flashback Classics - This Dusty Collection Sadly Opts For Quantity Over Quality
I can't argue with your score of a 5 because maybe the controls are gamebreaking, I haven't actually played this release myself and this isn't anything personal against you but this is the latest example of the sad state of video game reviews.
Attached below are Nintendo Life scores for some of the games that were considered groundbreaking upon release and were talked about for the entire span of the system as great games. The crazy part is that these scores are at or below the scores of whatever random indie games are released every week on the Switch - many of which are immediately forgotten about.
Scores from this site:
Metroid - 6
Zelda II - 7
Legend of Zelda - 8
Final Fantasy - 7
Super Mario Bros. - 9
Super Mario Bros. 2 - 8
Super Mario Bros. 3 - 10
Kid Icarus - 6
Punch-Out!! - 8
Super C - 7
Ninja Gaiden - 8
Double Dragon II - 4
Mega Man - 7
Mega Man 2 - 9
Mega Man 3 - 9
Castlevania - 8
Castlevania III - 9
There are a couple reasons for this. One is that video game criticism can't seem to keep great critics like movies and music can. Because of this there are no gatekeepers to remind us that whatever is shiny and new isn't automatically better than the classics. It would be laughable to call every random new music and movie on par with the all-time great movies and albums but that is very commonplace in video game criticism.
The second problem is that video game critics have relationships (whether it be personal or just getting free download codes) with all of these companies so they don't want to rate their games too low whereas they have no relationship with whoever made old games so they feel much more free to grade games lower.
Finally, all of these old games are getting graded by today's standards. The fact that you feel a game is unplayable and therefore devoid of value just because you couldn't figure it out in a minute says alot. Many NES titles get lowered because they are difficult or obtuse. Just because gamers right now have to have their hands held so much doesn't mean that is the right way for games to be played - it is just what the majority prefers right now. Criticism should be about reviewing art in a timeless manner as opposed to in the moment at least that's how the great critics in other genres review art.
Re: Guide: Every Nintendo Console Ranked From Worst To Best
The funny thing about this list is that although it has some crazy choices it actually matches up perfectly with one aspect of Nintendo rankings. Nintendo always releases their systems in pairs:
pixel consoles - NES/SNES
poly consoles - N64/GC
motion controls- Wii/Wii U
single screen handheld - GB(C)/GBA
two screen handheld - DS/3DS
The funny thing is that the first iteration is always more successful but the second iteration always ends up being considered the better system. Even the comments section has alot of people (but not all obviously) matching up with this consensus. The upshot is we already know what Nintendo's next console will be - an upgraded hybrid system. The real question is what will Nintendo do 2 systems from now?