Nintendo Lawyer Breaks Down What Makes An Emulator Illegal

Well, I can't complain about clarification.

Also, happy to know that Nintendo is an oiled-up machine.

I was under the impression that Ryujinx did none of these, though? I also thought these were already largely known.

Okay But this has nothing to do with Ryujinx or Yuzu or Citra, if what Nishiura states is true "Copying a device's specific programmes is a big no-no" Im sure Citra at least does not even need 3DS Keys to function and plus Ryujinx and Yuzu ship before being downloaded and set up they ship WITHOUT Switch Keys. Its just Japan's weird policy of Japan’s Unfair Competition Prevention Act. It is also not fair for the developers to get sued so hard, 2.4 million dollars?! Please the people who emulate and pirate games are such a niche community, Nintendo totally highballs the value of lost profits in court, this purging of emulators is completely unfair.

Well, Nintendo does Nintendo things. Not surprising. And i understand when they put down emulators for the Switch. But Nintendo, if you can't provide access to games which are not easily to get, they will get pirated. Just release them again and take peoples money.

I agree with 2 of the points nintendo makes here. Except for the security keys, because emulating security keys is part of making a system work. if the user takes the security key out of the device to insert into the emulator, there should be no problem. It's the equivalent of exchanging parts to a new location. I'm not here to argue if the user is doing something bad by copying or moving the key.

I think the game preservationists should act more like that big library in europe that stores a single copy of each old book for people to read. instead of massive piracy, and everybody getting a free copy just in case. That isn't necessary to make old games playable.

I think emulation is great but there is no reason to emulate current gen hardware. 99% or more of the people who use current gen emulation are also pirates.

@E-M-I Citra only died because it was by the same guys who made Yuzu, it did nothing wrong

@jojobar The only reason Imo is debugging mods and such. Even then, don't share your copy of the game online.

I personally use to have access to long gone, defunct software.

@HotGoomba Hopefull this applies to the goombas too. That way when a hot goomba like yourself appears, they spontaneously combust due to being coated in a flammable substance

I don't much care about these arguments.

Give customers what they want at a reasonable price and piracy dies.

This was extremely visible with the Pirate Bay, which almost ceased to be useful and relevant until Disney Plus came along and launched exclusive content in only 2 countries.

Make your back catalogue available at a reasonable price, Nintendo, and there will be no reason to pirate anything.

" if the emulator offers links to download pirated games, it can be considered a "reach app""

The only valid claim

kinda weak analysis, isn't it?

@E-M-I @KBuckley27 @FreasurePlanten If you're a big company, you determine what's "legal".

@JohnnyMind Because, frankly, Dolphin isn't emulating a current-gen console. Yuzu was offering versions of the emulator that were compatible with unreleased games for money, as well as actively encouraging users to emulate games before release date. That's the real issue here. P sure that's what they're referring to about software.

Great. Now explain how it's a copyright violation for games that aren't even in publication anymore.

Still not paying to rent decades-old games.

Buy or bust.

Expert legal knowledge from emulationbros incoming. Interesting read, it's not often someone in that position would speak somewhat candidly. I'd listen to a podcast of someone talking about this who wasn't some smug internet layabout. And well oiled machine is definitely right. The whole King Kong thing probably taught them early on to always have a strong investment in the legal arm of the company.

The Nintendo is evil crowd incoming!

That said: I emulate n64 games and I still think Nintendo is in their right to protect THEIR IP's

i will ignore anything nintendo says about emulation..😂

People want to play games for free and make up excuses as to why it is ok to do so.

@TomSupreme I did the same when it was hard to get hold of the PS5.

When you can get far better performance out of Echoes of Wisdom on a Mac, I think saying “Switch emulation is just for pirates” is disingenuous. Switch hardware is beyond outdated. Also not seeing a valid argument for why Ryujinx was taken down (not that it’s actually gone…), but we all know big corporations make their own laws.

Interesting read. Thank you.

U.S.A. copyright law doesn't prohibit emulators, and part of what keeps an emulator legal is not using copyright bios code, or any other copyright code in the system being emulated. Also, software backups are allowed. The distribution, or sale of these backups would be the violation.

Edit: Again, for a time, BLEEM! was once a PS emulator that was sold in stores. It operated by using different methods to play the discs. It used no copyright code, and therefore was legal.

@johnedwin Good on you! Fight the power etc! I'm Spartacus!

I love emulation but emulating current gen hardware is just piracy, just support the switch developers and buy the games 😕

@wiiware emulation isn’t piracy if you already own the game and aren’t distributing it.

@TomSupreme except the issue with the two emulators cited in the article is these games are available on hardware Nintendo is currently selling. You can’t just say you’re going to “preserve” Super Mario Odyssey a year after its release, then spread it around the Internet for free.

Emulation is an incredible tool for folks who want to have their entire retro libraries in one place, but folks shouldn't be emulating current gen. Piracy isn't Nintendo's doing, but if they managed to ever make a current gen system that was actually current gen, it would be nearly impossible to emulate properly during the current gen. The Switch, for instance, doesn't require a powerful PC to emulate, because it's just not a powerhouse system

Nintendo, let me buy the following on my Switch:
Darkened Skye (GCN)
The Hobbit (GCN)
Lord of the rings (SNES)
Super Star Wars (SNES)
F-Zero (SNES)
Super Mario Sunshine (GCN) timed, broken port doesn't count
Eternal Darkness (GCN)
Ghostbusters (NES)

If not, you can't tell me what to do with a Machine I OWN!

@Captain-N don’t forget Virtual Game Station. Steve Jobs showcased it on a Mac during a Macworld Expo.

I'll probably stick with my "don't emulate things you can buy brand new in a shop" rule of thumb, I think. That's typically been the sensible methodology for emulation, right?

@MattmanForever Sure, but most people that download switch games isn't the one that already have the console and games.

The problem is that people are emulating switch games which is dumb to do since you can buy any of those games today. I don't think its a problem to emulate games that are on older consoles that are harder to get like Gameboy, N64 and ect. If you think its a bright idea to emulate a switch and its games then you should probably rethink doing that.

@JohnnyMind Citra was collateral damage from the Yuzu takedown. Only because it was from Yuzu themselves.

Lawyer breaks down what makes an emulator illegal by saying…

“ "While you can’t immediately claim that an emulator is illegal in itself, it can become illegal depending on how it’s used"”

Here’s a quick list I compiled of other things that are very similar.

Spoons - perfectly legal, unless you maliciously poke someone in the eye with the handle end; should be banned.

Chicken drumsticks - perfectly legal, unless you remove the meat and maliciously poke someone in the eye with the pointy end; should be banned.

Paper - perfectly legal, unless you roll it up into a point and maliciously poke someone in the eye with it. Should be banned.

Thanks Nintendo lawyers for clarifying that emulators are indeed legal.

@FreasurePlanten there wasn't a lawsuit but I believe it did circumvent DRM/encryption and it's for an actively sold console. Sounds like it could reasonably be argued in Japan to be illegal, and likely the US. They made an agreement to shutdown vs court action. Likely a soft threat of "comply or die" but not the same as Yuzu who they slaughtered in court. We still don't know what happened or if Nintendo "bought it" perse. I'd love to have an article all about it.

@DrakeFeathers sadly. 3DS on Android was shaping up to be the best way to play 3DS games, at least in 2D. So many good handhelds like the Odin and Retroid Pocket could play it. Now it's stuck in limbo as a fork.

I completely agree with all of these points. It is definitely illegal to use copyrighted software in the emulator, such as the BIOS. If you write your own software that does the same thing, it should be fine though. Emulators such as the popular GBA emulator mGBA does this. I imagine that's why it's been in operation for over ten years.

@Xeacons Because of Disney. They have before pushed copyright laws far beyond recommended length in order to protect their mouse, damned if everything else in human creation gets taken along with it.

@MattmanForever I just don't care about switch emulation, I care about old games, not switch games that can be bought on eshop.

And I'm sure like 99% of people that downloading switch games is pirating them, not already have them and just want to emulate the games lol.

Why should I listen to the people who refuse to credit developers of their own games once they remaster them and fire people for mentioning unions on what's morally right

@Kazman2007 Nintendo would tell you, that those games are available with their super cheap subscription, and your saves with those games, would carry over to future consoles

@Lofoten Ok, then redirect to a place I can OFFICIALLY buy Sonic Heroes if it's "just an excuse". (keyword being official)

@58shiftbarackyeaugh

"Ok, then redirect to a place I can OFFICIALLY buy Sonic Heroes if it's "just an excuse". (keyword being official)"

Just because something is not for sale, does not mean one is entitled to take it for free.

Also: Try the second-hand market. For example www.ebay.com
There are many official releases of Sonic Heroes for sale there.

Lame first world pirates won't understand any word written in the article.

does playing snes emulated games on nintendo own snes mini count lol?

@Lofoten one is not entitled to sell retro games for the price of a ps5 and a new car combined either😃 ESPECIALLY in this modern climate where everything is a billion dollars now and the rich oafs in charge wanna gorge us for our money at every given chance there is NO reason I should give someone 500$ for a Super Nintendo game nowadays.

So stealing is bad? Glad to have an official clarification on that.

Seeing this story on other websites has shown me how much uneducated trash there is out there who think US laws literally apply everywhere.

It's nice to be here on a site where people have functioning brains.

@RupeeClock how many purchased and dumped games over just downloading a copy. We need to be honest. Emulation has a lot of benefits and is important to preservation but people do need to fess up that a lot of people just want free stuff

I will keep saying it, if you abandon a hardware platform and you no longer make it available to purchase or the games on that platform everything on that platform is fair game.

Obviously support current systems and platforms whether it be subscription services that give you access to old stuff if you still like that and don't like messing with emulation, but these 20 plus year old systems in many cases shouldn't have any roadblocks in the way for their content.

@PinballBuzzbro

"one is not entitled to sell retro games for the price of a ps5 and a new car combined either😃 ESPECIALLY in this modern climate where everything is a billion dollars now and the rich oafs in charge wanna gorge us for our money at every given chance there is NO reason I should give someone 500$ for a Super Nintendo game nowadays."

If you own a video game you can try to sell it for whatever price you want. If you try to sell something for a higher amount than others are selling it for or people are willing to pay for it, it probably wont sell though. That is how the second-hand market work.

Exactly what Super Nintendo game that you want costs 500 USD?

And if it really cost that much and you really want it, then you can either save up some money and work for it, or keep looking for a lower price. Or use your time and money on some other video game.

If you can't afford a specific video game it's ok to take it?
Have heard that one before from people trying to defend piracy, and it still makes zero sense to me.

These people defending their piracy often portray themselves as victims.

Victims of high prices and/or evil cooperations that don't have their full catalogue of games available for sale at any given moment.

I must say the victim mentality is not pretty.

Seems it is a generational thing.

In one or two hundred years from now when all of this copyright has been expired, without some way to decrypt the data it will be inaccessable--and by that point, not only should it not even matter if the original copyright holder even cares to repackage and/or redestribute the product themselves, the data will have been freed of copyright anyway, and Nintendo will have no right to control it anymore anyway.

Sure, you could argue that we're talking decades into the future here, but preservation can't start when it's too late, long after copyright has expired and it's difficult if not impossible to find an original readable copy of the game. It starts now, before it's lost to time forever.

Sorry Nintendo, I don't buy your excuse. You're just being dicks, as usual. Besides, we all know the real reason. Nintendo is after Switch emulation because not only is the console still on the market, but the soon-to-be-announced successor will be backwards compatible with it. And Nintendo wants to maintain exclusivity of original Switch games, so you can only play them by buying a brand-new Switch 2 from them in the future.

Additionally, it is likely that the Switch 2 architecture will be very similar to the original Switch, meaning the same emulators would likely work on it too with some modifications and some additional coding around new anti-piracy measures, so Nintendo doesn't want their still-unreleased console to get a boost in emulation the second it ends up in the wild.

All my homies still say nintendo sucks

What makes it illegal is systemic issues caused by class society that allows for big corporations to control what they should not be allowed to control.

People defending their piracy makes me think of self-deception and a verse.

"Every way of a man is right in his own eyes, But the Lord weighs the hearts."

Proverbs 21:2

@chiptoon Huh, funny, I didn't realize Tears of the Kingdom was part of Nintendo's back catalogue 2 weeks before the game was even released.

It's almost like pirates use emulators to steal new releases, and your argument that it will just die if Nintendo sells their back catalogue is complete BS.

I understand it is illegal but I don’t care. What am I supposed to do? Just not play old games unless Nintendo hand picks them to port to switch?

@MattmanForever I think nintendo do think that emulating old games are illegal, but they're looking the other way since people playing super mario world on their pc with snes9x or with delta app on their iphone didn't means much to them. Playing zelda totk before it launch on steam deck or pc or phone with better resolution and framerate however, yeah it's different matter to them.

And of course with social media people can't just play their switch emulator on their home, they have to broadcast to people around the world that "Hey you can play new nintendo games freely on your phone/steamdeck/pc, no need $60 for that", of course nintendo will sue the heck out of the switch emulator scenes.

Me? I just want to play old retro games anywhere I want, on switch (nintendo subs), pc, analogue pocket, iphone, etc. And I don't want that to be compromised because some people just didn't want to pay to play new nintendo switch games.

I am one of those, if you can purchase the game sure. If I own the game, I will emulate it if I want(better performance, etc). I am even more of an advocate for if you cannot purchase said game, these companies can get bent, unless they want to put it up for sale on a eshop or digitally.

@JungleATK A lot of older games can still be bought if you search 2nd hand stores. Same goes for systems. Or look for recreations of those systems, like FPGAs. There are always options.

And even an emulator running a copy of the rom of a cartridge that you own is legal. So for GB/C/A Games you could use the GameBoy Operator.

Only (ilegally) downloading roms from the internet and then play them on an emulator is illegal.

@Xeacons If a game still exists or not has nothing to do with copyright. Copyright has nothing (or better: not directly) to do with monetization in any form.

@Kazman2007 Patience, grasshopper.

I love how interdisciplinary video game news can be.

I feel like the author forgot that Ryujinx wasn't taken down due to copyright infringement or for breaking any law infact it's takedown was technically voluntary admittedly Nintendo probably had a hand in persuading the devs to take it down (make of that what you will) but no and I repeat no legal action was taken or used to compel it's takedown. Also Yuzu supposedly was caught on the using code you don't own part (Nintendo dev kit code) although I don't know for certain if that was the exact reason I can say that piracy in the context of copying and distribution of games in an unlawful manner was not the reason behind Yuzu being taken down.

A note to the author: By not clarifying that Ryujinx wasn't in violation of the law and was not found guilty of any illegal activity. Then associating it with a project that was found to be in violation of the law. You have inherently misrepresented the facts. Now admittedly you are entitled to your opinion but that doesn't change the legality of Ryujinx.

A proper legal explanation is given by Nintendo's lawyer.

The Internet's army of armchair lawyers: "You're wrong."

@HotGoomba Nintendo must have been attending those Diddy parties too then 🤔

“shut up shop” is not an actual phrase or the opposite of “set up shop” 😂😂