Zelda Producer Explains Why A Mario Maker Style Game Probably Won't Work

But... What's wrong with the option? The people who want it will buy it, and the people that don't won't. I still think it would sell incredibly well

Has he never played Mario Maker? It doesn’t force you to be creative. You don’t even have to make levels if you don’t want to, there’s like a million different things you can do to choose from

He's not wrong. Zelda dungeons are great, but a dungeon maker would be WAY more complex and intricate than a Mario Maker. MM levels are much simpler to make, while a custom dungeon would require a much higher level of creative thought, design knowledge and (most of all) commitment.

Also, the lack of an overworld would probably make dungeons feel more hollow. The overworld, story and characters are a big part of what make Zelda "Zelda."

I thinkable open world realistic Zelda game would be cool, and would be good to show off the Switch 2’s tech. Zelda Maker I feel would be extremely complicated. I’m happy with the link power up in Mario Maker 2. Now, can we have a reveal of Paper Zelda?

@ALinkttPresent @Solomon_Rambling I think this is unintended shade thrown at Mario Maker, but it might even be an internal lesson learned.

Mario Maker on the Wii U made sense to me, but creating stages on Switch was terrible by comparison (despite all the other great feature additions). It really soured me on it after making a few stages. I'm always impressed with what people did with it, and a few of the thousands of stages were even fun to play.

So, while I'd enjoy a LoZ Maker, I get why Nintendo might be hesitant.

One more reason is that Mario works a bit better from the start because it has more gameplay stemming from the faster action and physics which lends itself well to trial and error — it's fun to bounce around while building a stage.

Top-down Zelda games are more about selecting the right item to use, walking to the right place, facing the right direction, and getting the timing of a button press right. A little less fun and much less bouncing around.

If I was forced to make a LoZ Maker (please force me, Nintendo?), I'd focus on making the action aspects of the top-down gameplay more varied and prominent to help make the necessary trial and error while building levels more fun.

Clickbait. This isn't really about "Zelda maker", he's just expounding on the difference between passive and active creativity in video games.

@Poodlestargenerica The original Polygon article does suggest that the question of a Zelda Maker was directly asked and this was Aonuma's response. The answer does tie in with how players play ToTK so it is a little unclear how much he is talking about the prospect of a Zelda Maker and how much he is simply explaining the problem with forcing players to create things from scratch.

It's possible the Polygon article is slightly inaccurate with how this exchange went to begin with because you can definitely read that answer out of context completely like you suggested.

Please 'tri'force us our creativity!

Mate, some people would make better dungeons than the devs could just like how good some of the Mario maker levels are. You think you know what everyone wants but your comments on not going back to old formula in the last article made me sad for the franchise. I finished breath of the wild, thought it sucked compared to skyrim, never went back for tears of the kingdom because it's just such a time sink. You sound like Jim Ryan when he questioned why anyone would want to play old games. Old games didn't take up you're entire life and time and linear is preferred by a lot of people. What's next? "2D zelda sucks, no more or that" or has he already said that. Just port link between worlds, it was great.

A Zelda Maker would either be way too simplistic to make for a fun standalone game or way too complex for most normal people to understand. I think striking the correct balance would be incredibly difficult.

2D Mario is different in that it's a sidescroller with very linear and straightforward levels with minimal puzzle-solving

I don't understand this argument. Some people can play other people's creations without making their own.

The time to make one would have been on the 3DS or Wii U, but it probably wouldn't have been great anyway. Most of Mario Maker levels are hot garbage or worthless novelties. And though that's more of a run recklessly and skid your knees kind of game I think this all has much more to do with Nintendo's hugely protective stance on their Zelda IP. They guard this property more than anything else.

@Ade117 That won’t drive sales though. Most people that aren’t looking to create aren’t buying game creator games even though most allow you to play other people’s games. Much how game builder garage’s primary audience is people that want to make little games or use it a as a teaching tool. It isn’t a good ROI for something as complex as Zelda.

@Poodlestargenerica that is not what click bait means. The article title is not misleading.

@LikelySatan This article takes a something out of context in order to drum up controversy that didn't exist. That's why exactly what clickbait means.

I feel the same way. Dungeon building is more meticulous then level building in Mario. Yes there are programs for dungeon building, I'm aware. But the editor in Links Awakening showed that making a dungeon has a lot more to get right and has less right and more wrong ways to make one.

....So much for Zelda Maker happening, then...would've been great. I got Super Dungeon Maker, yeah....but it's just not the same...it's like....bootleg Zelda or something.

@OctolingKing13 I've never really understood the demand for a "Paper Zelda" game. What makes Paper Mario so special is that it gets to expand upon the Mario universe with its intricate storytelling and diverse cast of characters with unique personalities that you don't get in the mainline Mario games. Zelda games already have a rich story with unique characters, so I'm not really sure what niche such a game would scratch--other than people who just want a turn-based Zelda game, but that isn't something I necessarily need or am clamoring for.

“Zelda can’t be a playable action heroine”
“Zelda games should be open world”
“Zelda Maker wouldn’t work”

Why does the director of Zelda have such a narrow view of what Zelda can be now? Time to retire?

More from Aunoma... Time for him to take a break a long one -like on a different series. He has way too much control, way to reactive and overcorrections to the point that he contradicts himself in a endless loop. I really wish for him to move on and get some new much younger blood making decisions and literal direction for this series.

Good call in my opinion. I think Mario Maker didn't work either, I thought it was absolutely terrible. It was only good for streamers to show off their resilience to murder machines, not a shred of fun in there for me. It's the only game from Nintendo I regret buying. It's also the reason I stopped buying Digital game (so I can sell the cart if I hate it. I'm still sore I paid for that crap, Mario Maker).

Sorry but isnt it more that he doesnt want to see other people create better dungeons than him.
So many people have made zelda levels on Mario Maker it make sense to just do a zelda one.
Also I am one of those people who doesnt make levels but enjoy playing other peoples, so I would buy this but not create just to play

As a creative person, it hurts me to see other creatives in these positions give a lot of reasons why certain things can’t be done. All of his ‘no’s, could easily be turned into: “Let’s make this work!”

@Poodlestargenerica Ohhhhh. THAT'S why exactly what clickbait means. When an article header takes a something out of context.
Even if you made sense there, you'd still be wrong.

@LikelySatan Your comment is so grammatically incorrect and makes so little point that I actually don't know what you're trying to say. Clickbait is getting someone to click on something under false pretenses, and that's what I deem this.

The man isn't in to it. Stop being spoilt brats and complaining. Asking him to retire, or just churn something out for a muchsmaller audience is ludicrous. Unbelievable how some think. X sold, so Y should too is not how some people think (especially outside of the US lol.) He might change his mind one day. Who knows.

No please no, i really dont want that.

@Poodlestargenerica dude...I literally copied the grammar from your previous post, lol. Which is why it is incomprehensible.
"This article takes a something out of context in order to drum up controversy that didn't exist. That's why exactly what clickbait means."
K night bud. Think you need some zzzz's, lol.

It'd be boring anyway. the typical Zelda Dungeon, even topdown ones, are way too long to support a service/game where players play and rate them.

Mario levels are bite-size so you can fit dozens into one play session. Whereas in Zelda's case I couldn't imagine going through more than one or two Dungeons per play session, hardly anyone's dungeons would have any plays.

I think it would work depending on the style of game, especially if it's like Zelda Links Awakening, with Dampes shack where you create your own dungeons.

I think they’re right. All the more because BOTW and TOTK were so light on story and direction already and featured so much Minecraft and sandbox instead. The other reason is just as true - it would be super hard to pull of, I can imagine a 2D Zelda toolkit at best. So we’d get 1.000.000 purely mechanical levels without any intent and meaning.

I don’t think I really understand.

Won’t the people that want to do it do it? Like people don’t have to make things they can just play, which the creator wants, it’s like the circle of life but for games.

Never thought about that one. Would be weird. I would like someone to send SEGA a message that a Sonic and gang maker would be awesome

@Poodlestargenerica,

And get even more advertising clicks, this should not surprise us, the site has been doing this for ages now.

Aonuma has always been full of sh-

@Poodlestargenerica

“Polygon asked Zelda producer Eiji Aonuma and game director Hidemaro Fujibayashi about the possibility that fans would ever get a Zelda game that purely focused on building their own creations, like Super Mario Maker.”

…

Then Zelda Producer Eiji Aonuma Explained Why A Mario Maker Style Game Probably Won't Work.

…Struggling to see the missing links in the chain here. What more ‘context’ could possibly be necessary?

@Bunkerneath The only dungeons that Aonuma created himself directly in the whole franchise are those in Ocarina of Time where he was director and dungeon designer.

@Poodlestargenerica You said the exact same thing exactly the same way. Reread your comments before posting them.

Honestly I'd have very little interest in a Zelda maker personally anyway, but if the demand exists for it (and while it wouldn't sell as well as Mario Maker, I also doubt it would really take much in the way of budget or manpower to make given the same thing exists as, like, freely available programs made by random people) it feels utterly stupid not to try and cash in on it, especially with such weird flimsy non-logic as this.

But then this is the same franchise where a question about the idea of a female option for Link was answered with, "Um, but this series already has a girl, why would we need another?" so that's kind of to be expected.

I would love to play Super Zelda Maker

Something more realistic and interesting for me would be a Metroid maker game.

They sort of did this in Link's Awakening remake and that was boring.

I’d much prefer a Donkey Kong maker in the style of the original Donkey Kong

@Maxz I'm glad you enjoyed the article, one quote from another site out of context with a slightly misleading headline is not really what I was looking for.

He probably doesn’t want to see things evolve to Kaizo Zelda dungeons. Though, that does sound very chaotic and appealing to watch to me.

I will worship Aonuma with all of my dying heart and I will continue to stand by the sentiment of The Legend of Zelda being some of the best from his hands...but I'm kind of going to have to call hogwash on this.

Creation games and features are always going to be "complicated" for those who put in the best effort into making something, and that includes the Super Mario Maker games as well. Sure, having to place numerous pots and items and such here and there may seem a tad bit much, but that also applies to most level editors (even Tony Hawk's Pro Skater 2 had a similar level of depth for those who want to make "busy" parks) and while the Chamber Dungeons feature in The Legend of Zelda: Link's Awakening remake was a neat idea, it is also simply barebones and a further reason why a Zelda Maker needs to happen.

Either way, while I can't deny that a Zelda Maker would bring a more complicating direction compared to Super Mario Maker, I still believe that the former can still happen.

@Ade117 Yeah, just like how a large number of SMM players just play levels rather than creating their own.

Considering how they dumped Mario Maker 2 fairly quickly despite it feeling like they could have supported it for years I’d be surprised if we ever see another Maker anything from Nintendo. The lack of curation in MM2 is absolutely terrible, it’s extremely difficult finding quality levels without hunting outside of the game for level codes.

He's grossly underestimating the potential of what millions of people are capable of. He himself said that he couldn't believe he was looking at the same game when ultra hand videos started hitting social media.

My houshold love RPG maker MV so this would interest us regarding the older, 2D Zelda games I suppose.

@Poodlestargenerica I didn’t state whether I enjoyed the article or not. Let’s avoid making potentially misleading assumptions based on information that’s not provided.

I simply posted a direct quote from the Polygon article (which linked to and clearly referenced in the NL article) as well as a summary of the answer (an almost direct quote of this article’s title).

All the relevant information is there, and there aren’t a great many logical points to connect. It’s difficult to imagine what the reader could be ‘mislead’ to believe other than exactly what is stated in the article.

@Maxz Well For starters he did not explain why a Zelda maker game wouldn't work, he just made a blanket statement that could easily be applied to Mario maker, which they made 3 of. It was more just him, like I said, espousing the differences between active and passive creativity in game design. Which would be interesting in and of itself. Then the first bunch fo comments were people saying why he was wrong or why he was right, but he really made a non commital statement like a politician. You can disagree all you want, I really don't care.

Edit: Also to be clear, I don't click links to other peoples' articles. So what's written her is what I read.

There was an old DOS/Win32 Zelda-maker game called Zelda Classic that I used to be into back in the day. It's got a bit of a learning curve, but there were even forums of users sharing their fan-made "quests" for it which you could load in and play (some of which were impressively elaborate, with full tilesets and everything).

@Papasears1982 No thanks.

Didn't a indie studio release a Zelda maker no long ago?

@Papasears1982 Cel shading is not a filter, but I get what you mean, I also want the next Zelda game to not be the exact same.

@Navi Pretty much this. People who don't like violent games won't buy it, but people who do will. People who aren't into farming sims will skip it, but farming fans will enjoy it.

I agree it'd probably be difficult to do a Zelda maker in 3D, but 2D would do well since its a square grid based system.

Odd response. Mario Maker was perfectly playable by people that just wanted to run through Nintendo and other peoples levels, and didn’t require people to make content of their own. Engaging with the design aspect was optional in Mario Maker, and those that weren’t interested could just consume other people’s content.

In regards to freedom while playing levels. TOTK and BOTW still forced you to solve strict puzzles in all the shrines and approaches to those were often limited, and I don’t see how maps for a Zelda Maker would necessarily differ from that, or the past 30 years of 2D Zelda titles that had puzzles with prescribed solutions. TOTK and BOTW gave a lot of freedom in the overworld, but shrines were not that different to the typical Zelda dungeons that a Zelda Maker would see.