Topic: About the THE GRINDER

Why all the hate for HVS? The Conduit wasn't amazing, but that doesn't mean that HVS is a total Shovelware company. At least they made a playable game! Think about it, most people say that the Conduit is bland because it's the same old thing- kill aliens. I can name a lot of other FPSs that are like that, but why didn't those get hated?

@110percentful

Because they were on other platforms duh. They didn't have to deal with the unpleasable fanbase of us Nintendophiles.
Anyway it's because Conduit brought nothing new to the table and was very rough around the edges. Some, including myself, had too high of expectations. I was hoping that Conduit, being Wii exclusive would best ports of COD. Man, was I wrong.

This is L4D-reminiscent (4-player co-op) with the wii motion controls and wii-speak support. I don't really care if I were playing a big white dried out turd that wore spurs and talked like a Russian KGB agent, I'm STILL gonna be all over this game like crap on a freshly-washed windshield.

Agreed, it's utterly bizarre to me. This is a company that's been around for 20 years and yes, to pay the bills they've done a lot of work for hire in the past. They have a place in my heart because they started out developing on the Jaguar when no one else was and made a nice video pinball title which I also love! I think it's great that they're trying to break out of the work-for-hire ghetto and do their own games entirely in-house to be free of publisher pressures. Everyone may not have been thrilled with how The Conduit or some of their WiiWare titles turned out (I happen to enjoy Evasive Space and Gyrostarr -- though the difficulty curve on the former took a sharp turn after level 7), but they're really taking some big risks and trying to change the direction of the company. I'm a bit disappointed in some of our posters, frankly and I think a lot of this criticism is completely unfair.

@Sean Aaron
I admire their dedication and passion, but it doesn't make their games great. I love what they did with Nintendo's restrictive online service. They made it managable. There's been a lot of hate about their online when it comes to things out of their control which even I find a bit extreme. I look forward to how they handle the Grinder.

My big complaint that makes me sound like a hater is their lack of originality. They made a game take place in Washington, but I have to wonder if they've even been to Washington based on their level designs. When you finally see what they can deliver, it makes many of their words seem too bold and cocky. When was the last time they made a game that averaged in the 80s? Heck, 70s would be decent. Yet they deliver disappointment after disappointment. To think at one point the only HVS hater on the NLife forums was Alexsays.

That is, until Conduit was actually released. I may not agree with every bit of "hate," but it's not like it's unwarranted.

The Internet is full of people that are pessimistic rather than optimistic.

Unlike most developers, HVS communicates A LOT with their fan base, and they know very well what issues they have with games they release.
So in my eyes, I think every game they release that has some issues, I know HVS will be aware of it and try to do better next time, and I have to give props to a company that puts a lot of effort into trying to make a good online game with that joke of a set up Nintendo has.

Yeah some of the choices they make are questionable, and some of the art direction is sub-par, but this isn't EA, or Ubisoft or Square. It's a company that was going for broke with Conduit. That takes a lot of ....Hutzpah... to take a risk like that in this industry now a days.

I will be looking forward to their Legends game and Grinder. My judgment will be held until the games are actually released.

sure HVS may listen to the fans and pull off some interesting and fantastic interviews(check IGN's) making them sound super passionate and totaly caring about what they do....But what does any of that matter when their games are totaly mediocre or crappy? We want a 'good' game....You can pour your heart out, spend tons of time and try your best towards making a game. but it doesn't matter if the end result is mediocre. Nintendo, Capcom and Konami are golden...As far as new developers or Indie developers go....I'm alot more interested in 2D Boy since World of Goo! was just fantastic...along with Frontier Developments who created LostWinds and LostWinds 2. Those guys have imagination and talent and they never ever sounded over confident, cocky or hyping themselves up insanely before their games released....Based on 1 or 2 titles they have proved themselves that they can make great games. HVS hasn't yet....who knows, The Grinder may be fantastic....but for now, who really gives a damn, since the game wont be hitting until 2011.

As for The Grinder though...I'm happier with the new character and enemie artwork/redesigns...much improved over the generic 'movie copying' crap they first released from before. I really like that Cfreature with that china mask doll face with that Grim reaper cloaked body with the huge claws....although....it totaly remindes me of 'the Twin Victoms(Has to be one of the greatest and creepiest monster designs ever to grace a silent hill game) which was from Silent Hill 4.....I bet HVS got the idea from that, just like those vampires who look slightly simular from 'Dusk til Dawn' but eh. There's no doubt this game will beat the crap out of The Conduit....but again, it's being released for 2011 and we have zero new footage to go by or new impressions.

Until then...I think we should really be talking more about Gladiator AD/Tournament of Legends since it's being released this year in May(3 months)AND it got a new design makeover...i actually like the redesign. because the original looked utterly boring regarding the Brown(only) color scheme. now it's more colorful and has splash of Soul Calibur going for it. I would realllly like to see some new footage pronto
But if HVS falls flat with Tournament of Legends than more people are going to be less excited for The Grinder...really though, that's a big captain obvious ;p

@hardy
I can't believe you of all people are defending a developer. I guess you can do that since it's not Nintendo, eh Hardy? Smaller developer or not, that's no excuse for bad game design. We all pounce on Nintendo when their games aren't completely epic and ambitious, but we're supposed to give HVS props despite their games' faults because they're smaller? The only props I give is their usage of Nintendo's lackluster online service. They have two IPs left so then we'll see if they can live up to all their cocky claims or if these games actually turn out worse than Conduit.

@those asking about the HVS hate:
I have to say you would have to pin most of it on The Conduit. The game was hyped as the second coming of FPS titles on the Wii and promised to deliver great online multiplayer. It failed in most peoples eyes on both counts and the internet smelled blood in the water. I can't think of a single good game they have done, but I'll probably still give the Grinder a shot.

Yes because they are smaller I'm a bit more forgiving. You can't really compare HVS to Nintendo. Nintendo HAS the money, they HAVE the man power and they HAVE the great game designers, nothing that comes out of them directly should be sub par ever, they are a company that suppose to set the bar for gaming.
Also most of my complaints with Nintendo are with how they condone themselves as a business and how they handle their hardware and their pathetic support of online systems.

I own Conduit from HVS and it is a meh game, but for a small developer that was going for broke they certainly did achieve a lot. They could've gone the normal route and just make a sub par FPS with sub par controls and sub par visuals, but they honestly tried to make a good game and I applaud them for that.
Nintendo on the other had has all the power to make a game that blows our mind every year and I haven't seen that since the Wii came out. The closest thing to that would be Mario Galaxy, that's it, nothing else they've made meets my personal expectations of Nintendo.

I don't just clump games into good or bad categories and I also consider the abilities of the developer, if there's room for improvement for them, how much effort they put into it, so on and so forth.
So HVS gets a lot of slack from me (for now), where a company like...Data Design Interactive that made Ninjabread Man gets none, they are small but put NO effort into it and that's just wrong. Even EA with Dead Space, it's good, they tried, but they could've looked at the pricing structure for the game.

Many of us have high expectations for ALL games period, but I guess I'm a weirdo like that where I'm sympathetic towards their situation, that doesn't mean I'll get their game if it's crap, but I won't put a hate on over the net about it. I'm more optimistic.

They have two IPs left so then we'll see if they can live up to all their cocky claims or if these games actually turn out worse than Conduit.

I don't think their claims are cocky (I think the Internet made their statements cocky) but I agree with this.

@hardy
I do agree with the overall lack of innovation on Nintendo's part, but their games are still second to none. This generation has seen their worst games imo, but even at their worst they're still better than the competition (otherwise, third party games would sell right?) What Nintendo needs to fix is their online structure and release more games with the ambition of the "Wii" series, but with a more adventurous spirit (yes that's my personal long winded way of saying more "hardcore" efforts).

SO WHAT if HVS is a smaller company...2D boy is even SMALLER....2 or 3 people was it? and look how great World of Goo! was. Look at what Frontier Developments has done with lostWinds and LostWinds 2, they're small as well. There's no excuse......HVS is all about pretty graphics, solid control and sound effects....they CAN'T make a brilliant ,creative or innovative game.... they rip other ideas weather it's from movies or other games and totaly mediocre it up. there's nothing inspiring about this company....They're not even worth talking about, unless they actually prove themselves which they havent. They know it, so they make BS claims and get everybody hyped up with their Interviews....and they DID. Look at how excited everybody was for The Conduit and how much hype there was surrounding it, it was ridiclous. IGN's Boards were flooded with "The Conduit' this and that it was ridiuclous...Personally i was never excited for it...based on the screens and footage, it looked incredibly uninspired and generic. the enemy desin was extremely bland and boring. the level design for the most part was bare bones and it just looked like a mediocre shooter with excellent Wii IR Controls....Metroid Prime 3 is a 10/10...even if you took out the amazing IR Controls it would still be a brilliant game(not quite as good but still great)
I feel bad for those who baught The Conduit....HVS suckered you guys in with their hype. And what i love is that a great game(based on reviews) like Blaster Master Overdrive basically comes out of no where from Sunsoft...no hype, nothing! just a big suprise with a release date for 2 days later. and it's a great game and apperantly better than the original.

Anyways, I wonder what 2D Boy is up to, along with Frontier Developments....you can count on those tinier companies to make GOOD games.
Anyways,you'll see.... The Grinder will do nothing innovative, creative or unique with the FP genre....it will just be pretty, have great music and solid controls....And as you can see one of their enemie designs is already a copy(in ways) of Silent Hill 4's Twin Victom monster minus the extra head....

But what about their latest effort hitting this May? TOF?....where's the new footage and gameplay impressions? it's almost out the gate for crying out loud. bluh

Donatello, I'm one of the the biggest fans of World of Goo you'll ever find, and even I can't stomach the comparison you're trying to make.

I bought The Conduit, and for doing so, you call me a sucker. Are you going to try and convince me I didn't enjoy it, too? Please, spare us this kind of sanctimonious crap.

There will always be people that say 'oh it was a nice effort let's see what happens with the next game'. That and the 'oh but they're small'

Most people just happen to be in the category that recognizes there are many developers (some even smaller than this one!) that are much, much more deserving of any praise being handed out.

I have a feeling a few years and a couple more disappointments, and we'll still see the same people defending the same company.

Fine, it's a weak comparison since they're all part of a different genre....but really, what HVS WiiWare titles were as good as World of Goo and LostWinds1/2? None of them. And did you enjoy The Conduit? I bet you had a mediocre to decent time with it. but to each their own. TOF better be a step up. And no i'm not calling you a sucker...how can you be if you enjoyed it. but for the most part, most people were dissaopinted with it and they got sucked in because of all of the hype and the HVS Interviews. Even I at the time loved what HVS had to say...they seemed like they wanted to push the wii to its limits and deliver in all areas.

This. I actually agree with you on this.

Didn't seem that hard to me

Their size is used as an excuse as to why the games don't meet their own standards.

"Oh you say The Conduit was horrible? Well that's because they're a small company, they can only do so much, and at least they're trying!"

All while there are developers much smaller, with much fewer resources, developing games that are better in every possible way. There's no talent there whatsoever. There are guys there that know people like shiny things and there are other guys that know if you put bad guys in a repeating hallway for five hours, someone out there is bound to enjoy it. (No offense of course!)

They don't have talent and there are no excuses. As long as they continue making games, I'm positive people will make them though.

If we're talking 'Pessimistic'....then let's talk 3D gaming for the next gen consoles. i'm blown away by how many close minded people there are bitching about 3D like it's going to fail. it's the next step in gaming besides advanced motion controls. if the developers can creat depth and so on, then hell yes i'm all for it

Come on, Alex. You're above this. Your argument implies that those "same people" are just too stupid to know - or too afraid to admit - that they're actually disappointed and not really enjoying a game that other, more enlightened members here have deemed a failure. Otherwise, why would those "same people" defend a company which let them down?

It's like a vegetarian telling me I'll still be eating steak in a few years, even after several meals at Ruth's Chris which I enjoyed - but only because I was too unevolved to recognize them as disgusting, according to those that think they know better.

So long as I like the tase of it? Damn right I'll be eating steak.

_{MMMmmmm, steak....}

Actually? I had a lot of fun with it, thank you. But what do I know, I'm just a sucker.