Topic: The Nintendo Switch Thread

@BenAV I get what you are saying.... but how much work did it take Nintendo to rerelease MK8 with one screen? I don't think that much. They did add the battle mode so I had no complaints. What about DKTF which never used the second screen? And NSMBUD just took away the second screen feature, that surely was easy too. I dunno again a discount would have been nice. But with every digital purchase I make on the switch I am becoming more and more concerned that the switch 2 for some random unexplainable reason will not be backward compatible digitally. Only time will tell

@BenAV exactly. That’s why consumers have to have realistic expectations of a product. Rarely happens though.

@sixrings
If I sound angry, all I can say is I’m not (really, I’m not). Just annoyed by entitlement culture and notions of “how much work they put in” having any impact on a game’s value (otherwise AAA games would cost $200 each and indie games would all be $2 each, if assigning value based on total manhours worked).

The idea of expecting more from a purchase than what was advertised, then blaming a company for not providing additional products/services which were never promoted or even hinted at, disturbs me.

Most of all, value (from consumer perspective) has to do with quality and quantity of entertainment provided, not what it cost to make. Don’t worry about what it cost to make. It’s irrelevant. They could have waved a magic wand and abracadabra, spoke it into existence and it cost them nothing to make. Doesn’t change the entertainment value inherently present which justifies the monetary MSRP. Always judge by the net entertainment value vs price. Using any other metric stems from greed.

@sixrings As a developer, I feel the need to point out: Moving any game from PowerPC architecture (Wii U) to ARM (Switch) is most likely significantly more work in terms of manhours than removing the second screen from any of those games. You (should) have to redo all of QA since literally everything in the game has been changed since you're altering the most basic level of instructions, whereas removing second screen functionality sounds to be far more constrained in terms of effects.

That's fair. But if that's true then nintendo can't use the it took lots of effort to port excuse with the next system if it too is arm. I understand what jasonx is saying that there maybe entitlement but I would reword it in this case as expectations. Customers expect their systems to be able to play their old system games. Which is why even playstation who was about generations has adapted and allows for ps4 games to be played on ps5. Being the only console to not allow backward compat isn't a good look. It's debatable how much that would impact sales. But as a loyal nintendo fan I'd likely be out. Anyways that's my take.

Customers can “expect” whatever they want. But that doesn’t mean it’s owed to them. Customers expect all kinds of unreasonable things all the time. So simply “expecting” something doesn’t mean it’s justified.

Consumers are ignorant, and have no idea what it takes to make a system BC. And the fact that Nintendo has consistently provided BC for decades, something they didn’t have to do, yet the ONE TIME they couldn’t because they needed to change their business model to stay relevant, you hear screeching about it. And despite the fact Sony’s piss poor BC for decades. Just because they got it right this one time doesn’t negate the multiple generations beforehand where they didn’t. And what they do has nothing to do with Nintendo anyways. Again, the “person A did something so person B now owes me the same thing” argument is fallacious.

BC is nice when it happens. And you can even make purchasing decisions based on whether they offer it. But NEVER, EVER assume it’s a given. Because it’s not. It’s not a given. It’s not owed to you. It’s simply a feature that sometimes is feasible, and sometimes it’s not. But it is on you, the consumer, to make up your mind on whether you want to roll the dice buying a game before you know the next generation will be compatible. If you are not OK with the next generation not being BC, then you need to stop buying video games on this platform immediately. And all platforms, for that matter, as none of them are guaranteed to offer future BC. There are high probabilities but there is no guarantee it will happen. Any game you purchase, you are purchasing for the current system only. Anything more than that is wishful thinking.

It’s like lending money. Don’t do it unless you’re ok with never getting paid back. Likewise, don’t buy video games unless you’re ok with only getting what the box advertises. If you want more- if you expect more, then you need to hold off buying anything for the next 4-8 years, however long it takes, and wait until they confirm/deny whether you will actually get BC for that game next gen.

Basically.
I bought a 3ds to play 3ds games
I bought a Wii u to play Wii u games.
I bought a switch to play switch games.
I’m buying a ps5 to play PS5 games. 😀

@JaxonH no one is saying it is owed to fans.... but its become an industry standard and Nintendo should follow suit if they expect to keep good will and to encourage sales of the next console.

@WahooTime I agree with everything you are saying... but backward compatible systems lets us declutter our TV set ups... It may sound entitled but my four hdmi input tv can only handle so many systems. Actually only 3 since one is dedicated to the cable box. There was once a time people kept the old systems in the closet in case they wanted to play them. Generally speaking people are done with that. as Jason said it is not owed but shopping is a two way street. A company makes a product but the consumer isn't forced to buy it.

@sixrings
Sure, that I agree with.

But there’s a difference between saying “it would be a good move for Nintendo to make the next Switch BC” and saying “how dare Nintendo not make the current system BC, I bought all these Wii U games EXPECTING it and now that you haven’t delivered (despite there being perfectly valid reason) I am upset with you”

There is nothing wrong with wanting BC. I want BC. Everyone wants BC. But wanting and expecting are two different things. Sometimes it’s viable and sometimes it’s not. Ergo, when you bought Wii U games you bought only for the Wii U, and the chance that they might be playable on the next system, if and only if the next system was iterative (which it wasn’t). Right now, today, you buy Switch games only for Switch, and the chance that they might be playable on the next system, if and only if the next system is iterative.

@sixrings
I don't mind to have both Wii U and Switch altogether.
They are completely different machines.

@JaxonH well previously I would say I want bc but industry standards have changed so I expect it going forward. I expect native voice chat by now. However that isn't a deal breaker for me.

So to be clear..

I want voice chat in switch 2 but will buy it if for some reason it isn't there.
I expect bc and if for some reason it is not there I will likely not buy it unless its years later on kijiji.

Now me saying im not going to buy something doesn't mean I am in a rage kicking and screaming. It would just mean I moved on to other things. Similarly I no longer buy the car brand I used to. Or I decided to move down the street despite used to loving my neighbourhood. Things change.

So Koei Tecmo had a data breach similar to what Capcom and Nintendo recently experienced.

Can't wait to hear what juicy nuggets of info come from this incident.

@sixrings
That’s perfectly fine. Making an informed purchase based on whether a system has a feature you want is perfectly reasonable. If you don’t want to buy a system without BC then you shouldn’t buy it.

But again, that’s different than assuming it will, buying a bunch of games for the current system, then getting angry when it doesn’t happen.

BC is quickly becoming an industry-wide standard this gen, and it's hard to imagine a hybrid Switch successor not playing Switch games. If it doesn't, then Nintendo is setting themselves up for failure right off the bat, given how well Switch games are selling and will continue to sell.

With that said, Nintendo generally supports BC when it's possible. Gamecube --> Wii. Wii --> Wii U. GB --> GBC. GBC --> GBA. GBA --> NDS. NDS --> 3DS. And so on. The trouble with the Switch is the architecture and physical medium they used to store the games are both dramatically different, so digital and physical purchases on the Wii U can't really transfer forward.

@Ralizah
Or for their older offerings they can bring back Virtual Console and you can get BC through it and purchase individual games that are saved to your account and you can just access on all future iterations.

@GameOtaku It's best to abandon any hope for VC support from Nintendo going forward outside of special cases like the recently translated NES version of Fire Emblem.

@link3710 The whole of 2017 was Nintendo trying to get people on their side after the failure of the Wii U, hence both Metroid Prime 4 and Bayonetta 3. It's a "Hey we are serious about this system and hardcore games. This isn't another Wii U" message and it worked.

When it comes to gamers as a whole and their expectations, most people unless they are a developer, know nothing about what it takes to create anything from the hardware to the software. So when things don't meet impossible expectations they open their mouths and cry or throw their toys out the pram towards whatever company/person they think has wronged them. A lot of people seem to think game creation or porting is as simple as a click and drag or push of a button. So when a game is announced and then goes silent for more than a minute, or a game is ported to a new system like the PS4 or Switch which can't do backwards compatible due to the architecture of the previous hardware, they get upset and somehow think they have been screwed over.

For me I always felt that backward-compatibility was a godsend rather than an expectation. It's very convenient though, to be able to pop a PS4 disc into a PS5, and play. The entire idea of getting a free game upgrade is very economical and it stops people from having to double-dip on the No Man's Sky type games. It also gives you a nice sense of continuity.

With Nintendo their equivalent of BC is just a Switch port with some added stuff, and from someone else's point of view this would be stingy. But consider that a lot of new players are starting out with the Switch and therefore don't own another console, so having all these Wii U games ported to Switch, just expands the game library for them. Example: I've never played DKC: Tropical Freeze on Wii U, but now I can because it was ported. A five-year old who wasn't even alive when the Wii U was released, could also buy Tropical Freeze. At least now in 2020 I'm able to play games like Pikmin 3, which I would have had no hope in hell of buying now.

@Ralizah, astute point about Virtual Console, making FE: Shadow Dragon available for six months is silly... at least Nintendo had a halfway-reasonable (albeit pathetic) excuse to slap a timer on Super Mario 3D All-Stars. One thing I remain confused about is why Nintendo sold this game separately from NS Online. That, and making a £49.99 collectors' edition with a fake cartridge, artbook and physical game as if it was a AAA game released this year. It makes me wonder what Nintendo really had in stock this year, because that kind of move seems extremely desperate.

@Grumblevolcano well Bayonetta 3 and Metroid Prime 4 was revealed to show to people, that unlike the Wii U, the Switch is gonna have a excelent future, considering Wii U have very few excelent games, i agree that Nintendo and Platinum Games anounced Bayonetta 3 way too early, and want to make the best game of the franchise and best hack and slash and top Devil May Cry 5, that why the game is taking so long to release on Switch.