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Topic: The Nintendo Switch Thread

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link3710

@JaxonH I doubt it. It probably reuses models and lighting info from BotW, but I'd wager it's built in the updated Musou engine they made for Persona 5 Scramble.

link3710

JaxonH

@Octane
Perhaps, but I dont see how it "doesnt make any sense". Seems to make perfect sense. If Nintendo let them use the engine to achieve a better performing and better looking game. Which, maybe they did, maybe they didnt, but I dont see why that wouldn't make sense if they did.

As for Star Fox, I dont think the length is an issue. It's a rail shooter, and rail shooters tend to be shorter. I dont like letting things like price or length affect analysis of a game's quality. I think quality is separate, and only after quality has been analyzed should each individual evaluate value based on price or length.

All have sinned and fall short of Gods glory. Wages of sin is death. Romans

God so loved the world He sent His only Son- whoever believes on Him has eternal life. Unless you believe, you will die in your sins. Whoever believes, rivers of living water flow within them. John

JaxonH

@link3710
Did they update the engine for that game? Looked the same to me. Unless they said something in a developer interview, I must have missed it.

All have sinned and fall short of Gods glory. Wages of sin is death. Romans

God so loved the world He sent His only Son- whoever believes on Him has eternal life. Unless you believe, you will die in your sins. Whoever believes, rivers of living water flow within them. John

Octane

@JaxonH Because that's generally not how game engines work. They are great at one kind of video game usually (I'm talking about proprietary engines). Rebuilding the BOTW to support this kind of gameplay is a lot more resource demanding than updating the Warriors engine with Zelda assets, which would be relatively easy. And the team at Tecno Koei has a lot more experience with the Warriors engine as well.

Octane

JaxonH

@Octane
Hmm, maybe that's true, I dont know enough about engines to counter that claim, but I am curious what it is about the BotW engine that couldnt handle a game that's, by all accounts, very similar. It has a main character. Check. Multiple enemies. Check. Open areas. Check. What part about that is the engine "not able to handle"? I'd wager it could handle those things far better than KT's engine, which results in bare bones looking games with chugging performance. But what do I know. That said, I'd be shocked if the BotW engine couldnt be used for a game that looks like BotW.

All have sinned and fall short of Gods glory. Wages of sin is death. Romans

God so loved the world He sent His only Son- whoever believes on Him has eternal life. Unless you believe, you will die in your sins. Whoever believes, rivers of living water flow within them. John

jump

@JaxonH by resource demanding he means getting people to make the changes rather than the game engine couldn't handle it. With the Warriors engine you are just changing the models and textures but with the BOTW engine you are putting in the mechanics for the game.

Nicolai wrote:

Alright, I gotta stop getting into arguments with jump. Someone remind me next time.

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link3710

@JaxonH The engine yes. Not the graphics. Two separate things. P5 Scramble upgraded the underlying engine to optimize it better.

For this game, they almost certainly let K-T use the shading, lighting, graphics, etc, and whatever optimizations they had for that. But the engine for BotW was built around realistic physics calculations. This game doesn't need realistic physics, instead, it should be optimized for huge numbers of characters at once while simplifying physics as much as possible. And while an engine could allow for tweaking of those sorts of things, it's a good reason why the BotW engine wouldn't be my first choice for making this game.

Here's the thing: Basically any 3D capable engine in existence could make a game that looks like BotW if the models and lighting were ported into it. Heck, an engine can do things that are crazy different, such as Wind Waker, Twilight Princess, Pikmin, and Super Mario Sunshine all sharing the same in-house Nintendo engine (technically different versions for each game but the newest version had all the features used for prior games). Actually, almost every Nintendo game on the GameCube shared the same engine tbh. Same goes for most of their systems.

An engine's job is to be a framework for people to build off of. It has little to do with the actual graphics of the game. And most engines these days are flexible enough in their graphics pipeline to support basically any sort of graphics.

link3710

JaxonH

@jump
Ah, that makes more sense.

All have sinned and fall short of Gods glory. Wages of sin is death. Romans

God so loved the world He sent His only Son- whoever believes on Him has eternal life. Unless you believe, you will die in your sins. Whoever believes, rivers of living water flow within them. John

JaxonH

@link3710
I get that- it wasnt necessarily just the graphics that led me to think they might not be using the old Warriors engine- it was how good it looked, and ran, compared to what I'm used to seeing in Warriors games. It looks way better than anything we've ever seen using that old, crusty Warriors engine on Switch.

If they are using the Warriors engine, I'd take this as a sign that they should consider changing the art style of their games, at least on Switch. If they can see this much gain just from the assets and art style, then that's what they should be focusing on moving forward.

Edited on by JaxonH

All have sinned and fall short of Gods glory. Wages of sin is death. Romans

God so loved the world He sent His only Son- whoever believes on Him has eternal life. Unless you believe, you will die in your sins. Whoever believes, rivers of living water flow within them. John

Dezzy

So 2020 will end up being an OK year for Nintendo overall. I'll probably have bought 4 major Switch games by years end. Xenoblade, Paper Mario, 3D All Stars, and now Hyrule Warriors. That's probably more than I buy on average. I normally buy about 3 on average.

It's dangerous to go alone! Stay at home.

Octane

@JaxonH The BOTW engine can probably handle this game, but they'd need to tweak a ton of stuff. And the team has to learn a completely new engine. So it's a lot easier to just update the familiar Warriors engine, and import Zelda assets.

And this would be a smart move on Koei's part as well. Because Nintendo is paying for all this, and they get to use Nintendo's money to upgrade their engine a little. This is probably something they'd do with most games.

But yes, both are 3D games. But one has a complex physics engine, a massive open world, an expansive inventory and quest system. None of that is necessary in a Warriors game. Which needs to be able to handle hundreds of enemies on screen at once. If they had to start from scratch it would be possible they adapted the Zelda engine, but they already have their own in-house blueprint for this game, so it doesn't make sense to completely adapt the Zelda engine.

Octane

jump

@Dezzy Even with Hyrule Warriors and 3D All Stars I'm buying less this year. Tokyo Mirage Session is the only game from Nintendo I bought so far this year. I have loved a few third party games but overall compared to the over feeding of the last few years I'm not full yet.

Nicolai wrote:

Alright, I gotta stop getting into arguments with jump. Someone remind me next time.

Switch Friend Code: SW-8051-9575-2812 | 3DS Friend Code: 1762-3772-0251

TheFrenchiestFry

@Octane They're probably using the in house Koei engine but just trying to replicate the art style and assets to the best of their ability, just like Persona 5 Scramble.

P5S likewise ran on a modified version of the Three Houses Engine but they tried to replicate a lot of the locations, assets and UI elements from the mainline Persona 5, although there are clear differences in things like the model quality and lighting techniques, since Atlus' own engine was only built for smaller, more contained encounters as opposed to a large volume of enemies flocking the screen at once.

Edited on by TheFrenchiestFry

TheFrenchiestFry

Switch Friend Code: SW-4512-3820-2140 | My Nintendo: French Fry

NintendoByNature

@Dezzy that's what I was thinking. What seemed like a so-so year turned out to be ok in my eyes. Better than 2018, not as good as 2019. TMS:FE(didn't get it), Mystery dungeon(which i also didn't get but im sure alot of ppl did), AC, XC, clubhouse, origami king, 3d Allstars, pikmin 3D and age of calamity. A decent amount of releases actually. And some quality games at that.

NintendoByNature

Blooper987

@NintendoByNature I think the Mario direct and the new Hyrule Warriors completely turned it around for me.

...

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TheFrenchiestFry

@NintendoByNature Yeah in terms of volume and quality of the releases I'd personally say 2020 is far better than 2018, but still not as good as last year or 2017. The third party offerings have also been great and what we have coming down the line with stuff like SMT Nocturne's remaster, SMT V, P5S, Crash 4 (allegedly) and some other stuff will certainly keep the wait bearable for major first party or second party exclusives. Hyrule Warriors is also a really solid holiday title and I'm definitely picking that up.

Edited on by TheFrenchiestFry

TheFrenchiestFry

Switch Friend Code: SW-4512-3820-2140 | My Nintendo: French Fry

NintendoByNature

@Blooper987 @TheFrenchiestFry 100%. I was happy with the year when they announced origami king. I had a good stream of games from January til August. Xenoblade kept me busy for a while. And once I finished origami king I started working on backlogs. So I've been playing something nonstop and I should be finishing one of my backlog games( kingdom battle) tonight and have a week of downtime til 3d Allstars.

That'll keep me busy until pikmin and age of calamity

NintendoByNature

Anti-Matter

I'm already content with My Universe games by Microids, Pretty Princess Party by Nippon Columbia, Rilakkuma game, PAW Patrol Mighty Pups and Racing with Ryan Deluxe Edition.

Edited on by Anti-Matter

Anti-Matter

Maaryotyme

Anti-Matter wrote:

I'm already content with My Universe games by Microids, Pretty Princess Party by Nippon Columbia, Rilakkuma game, PAW Patrol Mighty Pups and Racing with Ryan Deluxe Edition.

I’m so happy for you. Some quality games @Anti-matter

Maaryotyme

link3710

Okay, so HW makes sense as a fill-in for whatever was originally intended as the holiday title. With it's BotW connection, and canon status, I can't see it not becoming the best selling Warriors game of all time.

I'm honestly incredibly happy with it. Musou titles might not be everyone else's forte, but this is the kind of brand new title that'll make me happy this year finally, in a year I've played nothing but backlog and ports. Not that I mind playing plenty of backlog, but it's been a long time since I've felt excited for a game that was coming soon, kinda missed that.

@TheFrenchiestFry I'm not sure that it's above 2018 quite yet. Kirby Star Allies + Mario Tennis Aces + Octopath Traveler + Torna + Smash Ultimate is certainly not bad. Plus stuff like Gris, Hollow Knight, Celeste, Into the Breach, Dead Cells, Steamworld Dig 2, Overcooked, Starlink and Moonlighter (I think) launched that year. And then for ports you had Bayonetta 1&2, DQ Builder 1&2, both South Parks, Hyrule Warriors DE, Captain Toad, Dark Souls, FighterZ, Megaman Legacy, etc.

2020 has some good ports/remasters in TMS#FE + Pikmin 3 Deluxe + Borderlands + XCOM 2 + Bioshock + Zero/ZX + XC:DE + Pokemon Mystery Dungeon, and Paper Mario, Animal Crossing, and Hyrule Warriors (and maybe Rune Factory 5 / Bravely Defualt 2), for new content. But the lack of much notable on the indie front or 3rd party ports means I'd place it below 2018 still.

Edited on by link3710

link3710

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