Forums

Topic: The Nintendo Switch Thread

Posts 44,821 to 44,840 of 69,964

rallydefault

@Cotillion
Good points, but a couple things:

-The Steam argument is a false analogy, because PC games have always been that way. I still have the game disc for Fire and Ice from the 90s, and I could go back and get that to work on my rig right now if I wanted to put a few minutes into figuring it out. That's just been the nature of PC hardware since...forever. Not comparable.

-In general, you're comparing apples to oranges, because you and I and everyone else here knows full well that game consoles are in no way similar to other media devices like Smart TVs, Smart Phones, even BluRay players and tablets. When a console generation passes, the old console generally "dies" - the company ceases supporting it with security fixes, updates, etc. Those other devices mentioned (phones, tablets, etc.) tend to hang around for quite some time. I have a BluRay player from like 2010 that still receives online updates. My point being, you can't expect software to be universally accessible RIGHT NOW in the console environment if console makers routinely abandon the older devices when the newer ones come out.

@Dezzy
Same thing. It's great on paper to be like, "I bought Lord of the Rings YEARS ago on my Google account and I can still play it on my various phones/tablets today! Voila!" but you're dealing with devices that continue to be supported by the companies that make them, so you're not doing a fair comparison.

I do think things will come around, though. Microsoft is obviously going in a streaming, pseudo-hardware direction.

rallydefault

Dezzy

toiletduck wrote:

@Cotillion why should the VC version be available to you on a totally different system? I still haven't seen a valid argument for this.

Because if it's an identical version of the game, and the different platforms offer nothing particularly new in how it can be played, it's reasonable to claim that it's the same item. In some cases it probably is literally the same code just copied over.

It's dangerous to go alone! Stay at home.

link3710

Once hardware advances to the point where they stop having to rebuild the VC for each new console, I could agree. But as of right now, they're putting a significant amount of work to bring things over and thus should be paid. The difference with Steam from Consoles is that as of now Steam is not doing any work to update the games to be compatible with newer hardware, that work is put off on the user. Consoles on the other hand have the software creators doing the work.

link3710

toiletduck

@Dezzy @Cotillion in my view, with VC you don't buy a game but you buy the possibility to play a game on the VCs device. But ok, let's agree to disagree. Btw; I would definitely applaud and appreciate it if Nintendo would chose the direction your suggesting.

toiletduck

Switch Friend Code: SW-2231-9448-5129

Haruki_NLI

@toiletduck Likewise, in my view, when I buy a Switch cartridge, I'm not buying the game but the possibility to play it on this one device.

At the same time....when I buy that...I know that I am not guaranteed the ability to play it on a subsequent device.

To the general topic as a whole, sure, you could argue VC purchases should come with you, and largely on Wii to Wii U they did, with a large discount.

What people fail to realise, is how different Switch is from Wii U and Wii. ARM vs PPC.

An emulator works by taking code, from say an SNES, and effectively using system resources, translates it to whatever the actual system understands.

So if they wanted Wii U VC on Switch as it was....well they cant. The emulator for SNES there, would be built to translate SNES Code, into PowerPC code.

On Switch, they'd need a new emulator, which they pulled from the SNES Classic it turns out, that turns SNES code into ARM code.

Now Playing: Ratchet and Clank: Rift Apart, Crash Bandicoot 4

Now Streaming: Sonic Lost World, Just Cause 3

NLI Discord: https://bit.ly/2IoFIvj

Twitch: https://bit.ly/2wcA7E4

link3710

@Knuckles-Fajita Hopefully ARM is here to stay though, at least for another couple decades at least. Which is why BC for VC is actually viable for next-gen... or would be if VC still existed.

link3710

JaxonH

The minute something requires additional coding to run on a new system, and doesn’t natively play, they have a right to charge again, or charge an upgrade fee, or a right to simply not bother coding it to run at all.

If something runs natively (all Windows based PC games run on any Windows based PC, regardless of hardware configuration) then of course it’ll migrate over. But when something does not, and needs to be re-coded because the software environment is different... there is no rightful claim to be made.

The reason things like Wii VC don't carry over forever, is because each system has a new OS, and those games would need to be ported over, and thus they will charge, if they bother to do it at all. It really is that simple. In the case of Wii U, it cost them money to make it backwards compatible with a previous system and thus they charged a nominal fee for each VC game to help cover that cost. That’s just how it is.

Furthermore when people buy a game they do so knowing the only guarantee is that it will run on that one system. No promises have been made for future support on any other systems. So people can’t then rightfully get upset that they’re not getting something they were never promised at time of purchase.

Once gaming consoles get to a point where each successive generation is using the same architecture as the one prior, to the point all games from the previous system run natively out of the box without any extra work on their part... then I think we’ll see games transfer over. That’s not to say companies can’t go out of their way to include BC, which works as a great selling point. But it’s not expected or mandatory. It’s a voluntary feature they provide to help sell their system.

Nintendo Switch Lite $175 via Antonline on Google Shopping with code: 19CYBERNS

Switch Lite $175 use code: 19CYBERNS

Edited on by JaxonH

All have sinned and fall short of Gods glory. Wages of sin is death. Romans

God so loved the world He sent His only Son- whoever believes on Him has eternal life. Unless you believe, you will die in your sins. Whoever believes, rivers of living water flow within them. John

Magician

Just browsing news on one of my favorite third party publishers on Switch, THQ Nordic. Found out that their holding company, Embracer Group, has 83 games in development across multiple platforms. With the investment group targeting several more developers for acquisition in 2020. It makes me wonder what else they'll bring to the Switch?

I'm still desperately waiting for a port of Dead Island.

Switch Physical Collection - 1,241 games (as of March 23rd, 2024)
Favorite Quote: "Childhood is not from birth to a certain age and at a certain age the child is grown, and puts away childish things. Childhood is the kingdom where nobody dies." -Edna St. Vincent Millay

Cotillion

@rallydefault I feel like you didn't get what my post was. I wasn't taking a stance on one side, but rather commenting on why people are now expecting consoles to follow suit with how other digital media works. People buy a movie, album, book or whatever within a service, they expect to be able to access it anywhere that service is available. Console games are an exception and some people don't like it.
I actually already pointed out the counterarguments that you made to me as understandable as to why they are not as of now.
The Steam argument is different not only because 'it's just always been that way', but because Steam has no stake in the hardware, whereas Nintendo, Sony and Microsoft do. The latter use reselling games as a means to boost libraries for their new systems where Steam doesn't care and can't do the same.
But just because it's always been that way means little. You used to only be able to buy a VHS and only play it on VHS players. Now you can buy a movie on Google Play and play it on anything with a Google account, anything from phones, to tablets, laptops, TVs, fridges, whatever. Times change and gaming companies do seem to be realizing that their old models are dying - we're getting Sony, Microsoft and Google all starting up games as a service, Nintendo tried with NES/SNES Online and so on.
I think they'll get it sorted in the end and right now we're just in a transition phase. Just some people are far too impatient and immediately want their old games available now. I'm not one of those, I just see both sides of it, especially when people say "well, none of your other media works that way" when it actually does now (albeit tied to a particular service rather than hardware).

@toiletduck Retro games are a different beast from the ports people are expecting. They aren't ported, they aren't remastered, they aren't altered in any way. It's literally rebuying the same ROM for a new piece of hardware. The only work involved is making an emulator to run them on said new hardware. Nintendo was on the right track with these games as a service (though they have really blundered the actual execution of it, IMO). Retro games as a service falls in line with what people expect and also allows the provider to charge for them. Or they could charge for the emulators on each new system if you want to play your purchased games as a purchase or rental (as Nintendo has done).
I don't necessarily want the ones I purchased on 3DS available to me now, but I'd like to see something going forward rather than rebuying the same ROMs they have done nothing to in 30 years.
Honestly, I'd gladly pay more than I should for a true fully loaded Netflix-type retro games service that I can access on whatever Nintendo system I'm using. NES/SNES online falls flat for me with the extremely limited selection and better offerings from 3rd party in the eShop.

Edited on by Cotillion

Cotillion

JaxonH

@Magician
Considering this:

Battle Chasers Nightwar Console Sales Were The Best On Switch...

and the similar result we’ve seen for many of their other titles, I think they are going to get every single game that can run on Switch... on the Switch (for which they can find resources to bring over).

Checked Amazon best sellers list and saw Civilization VI on Switch outselling both the PS4 and X1 versions on their launch day, despite being out for a full year first. I know that’s not THQ, but it is yet one more anecdotal case of Switch software outperforming every other version, often by considerable margins- something we’ve seen time and again. Doesn’t even matter if it releases later, it still outperforms.

The thirst for hybrid gaming is real- Switch gamers are feasting right now. All these developers need to do is put their game on the market and watch it sell. THQ is one of the smarter publishers of the bunch. They see it, and they know what time it is.

Edited on by JaxonH

All have sinned and fall short of Gods glory. Wages of sin is death. Romans

God so loved the world He sent His only Son- whoever believes on Him has eternal life. Unless you believe, you will die in your sins. Whoever believes, rivers of living water flow within them. John

Cotillion

@JaxonH Dedicated consoles have great games, but wherever you have it set up is where you play it. Mobile gaming is super convenient, but a vast majority of the games are garbage (sorry, mobile gamers). Switch is the bridge between the two, so it doesn't surprise me that games repeatedly outsell other versions as you're getting both worlds in one purchase.

Cotillion

rallydefault

@Cotillion
I'll be honest - I find reading your posts a bit difficult. But I agree with what you're saying... I think lol It is weird when people expect the same things from dedicated consoles that they're used to on other more ubiquitous hardware/software ecosystems. So, yea...yea lol

rallydefault

TuVictus

Maaaaan, Gamestop had Yooka Laylee and the Impossible Lair on sale for Switch, but they cancelled my order this morning and now there's no stock left. :/

TuVictus

NintendoByNature

@PikPi I was looking for a new copy of South park fractured but whole since it's only $15. Pre owned is $35... go figure.. and There isn't a new copy within 250 miles from my house, so oh well.

NintendoByNature

GameOtaku

@JaxonH
But they don't need extra coding. Right now you can download a free emulator and roms and play on nearly any PC. You can then just transfer the emu and roms to another computer later on. I don't remember having to rebuy my physical nes library when I bought my retron after all but I bought a new system. Just like I bought a 3ds and bought vc on it. Now I bought the switch and I can't play any of those games I own on vc on it unless I pay a rental fee as well as being subjected to the weekly checkin requirements so I'd only end up playing the games every other week! An account system is now in place just like with Sony and Apple products! My account is also tied to my switch and 3ds and going forward.

GameOtaku

HobbitGamer

GameOtaku wrote:

Now I bought the switch and I can't play any of those games I own on vc on it unless I pay a rental fee as well as being subjected to the weekly checkin requirements so I'd only end up playing the games every other week! An account system is now in place just like with Sony and Apple products! My account is also tied to my switch and 3ds and going forward.

Like I said earlier, I've purchased digital movies and music only to have the rights removed later. Including iTunes. So that's not really a good comparison.

#MudStrongs

Switch Friend Code: SW-7842-2075-5515 | My Nintendo: HobbitGamr | Nintendo Network ID: HobbitGamr

Grumblevolcano

@HobbitGamer I've noticed something about iOS, might be related. If you're low on space on something like a iPod/iPhone/iPad and want to delete something you're given the option between "Remove Downloads" and "Delete From Library" but if you pick the latter it deletes the license completely so if you want it back you have to rebuy.

Grumblevolcano

Switch Friend Code: SW-2595-6790-2897 | 3DS Friend Code: 3926-6300-7087 | Nintendo Network ID: GrumbleVolcano

JaxonH

Divinity Original Sin 2 physical release announcer via Limiter Run Games!

@GameOtaku
Not the same. PC emulators work on any windows environments. Switch has different OS than Wii U. Cant just "plop an emulator" on Switch and call it a day. There's a reason Sega Ages releases take months in between each game. There's a reason VC took weeks between each game. They don't just "plop a game on an emulator (that magically runs on Switch without any coding)" and call it a day.

The emulator must be ported. Each game requires tweaking to prevent performance issues that commercial emulators take years to iron out. Special Fx Chip games all require different work.

It's just not the same. Doesnt matter how much someone thinks they "should have". Its not the same. Different OS. Nothing runs natively. Work is required. It's not the same.

All have sinned and fall short of Gods glory. Wages of sin is death. Romans

God so loved the world He sent His only Son- whoever believes on Him has eternal life. Unless you believe, you will die in your sins. Whoever believes, rivers of living water flow within them. John

link3710

@GameOtaku That's because Microsoft has backwards compatibility. But even then, look at Dolphin EMU to see some of the more complicated things going on in the PC to PC world. New backends coming into play require large amounts of recoding (for example Direct X 11 to Direct X 12), drivers are constantly adding new features while deprecating old used ones, and that's all just on X64 based hardware. X84 was basically an entirely separate emulator back when it was maintained, and ARM (Dolphin Android) has a huge amount of unique code.

PowerPC to ARM (what they just jumped) requires significant rewrites of any emulator to get it up to scratch, not mention adding in additional features (rewinding for example) that weren't present on prior hardware, and the fact that unlike free emulators, they extensively test every game they release to make sure it works as expected instead of relying on user reports to find bugs.

link3710

HobbitGamer

@Grumblevolcano Eek, that’s shifty. For me it was that iTunes lost licensing rights. Happened one Zune, as well.

#MudStrongs

Switch Friend Code: SW-7842-2075-5515 | My Nintendo: HobbitGamr | Nintendo Network ID: HobbitGamr

Please login or sign up to reply to this topic