Topic: Super Smash Bros. Ultimate

I feel like even if the last DLC character ends up being a first party Nintendo character people who primarily play on Nintendo systems will largely be disappointed by the Smash DLC for how biased towards third party characters it is

I honestly have no problem at all with it, especially given I didn't even flat out love any of the actual first party reps that were featured as DLC this time around and the third party franchises for the most part are ones that I've either been wanting for a long time to happen or are characters I knew I would want but never really thought about their chances of making it

Kazuya's another example of a character I never thought would happen in this game but I genuinely love the emphasis on fighting game characters Sakurai has put on all those reps. You can tell he has a massive respect for the genre and wants to implement as much as he possibly can to cater both to Smash's playstyle and fans of the games characters like Ryu, Terry and Kazuya come from. I'm not even as big on Tekken compared to traditional 2D fighters but they put so much effort into fully representing him and his background, down to even using the Tekken announcer in place of Xander Mobus that he just feels like a labor of love

I honestly roll my eyes whenever people are like "Who even asked for this character" because you should be able to just take one look at their franchise and understand why they deserve the slot. Tekken is basically neck and neck with Street Fighter as the face of the FGC at this point and Kazuya is one of the most recognizable fighting game characters of all time even next to characters in his own family tree. It really doesn't matter that he doesn't cater to Nintendo fans' tastes or that he's third party. He's an icon in every sense of the word. We shouldn't HAVE to ask for freaking Tekken to be featured in another fighting game. Hell Kazuya's technically already fought against other Final Fantasy, Street Fighter and Fatal Fury characters as is

@Northwind Joker is the first, not Kazuya.

Persona - Q (3DS), Q2 (3DS), Strikers (Switch)
Tekken - Advance (GBA), 3D Prime Edition (3DS), Tag Team Tournament 2 (Wii U)

So Joker set the precedent for 3rd party characters that it didn't matter what Nintendo system presence there was for a franchise to be in Smash provided at least 1 game is on a Nintendo system (even if it's just a spinoff).

If Nintendo wanted a more Nintendo focused Atlus franchise, they'd have gone for a character like Demi-Fiend from SMT Nocturne or the protagonist from the upcoming Switch exclusive SMTV instead.

I think the 3rd party fighters without much of a Nintendo system presence might be a sign for the future much like how Playstation exclusive Final Fantasy came to Switch a few years after Cloud came to Smash 3DS/Wii U. Well I could see a Tekken game to Switch and if those Persona on Xbox rumours actually come to anything (I don't believe them), it'll also come to Switch.

@Northwind Kazuya is FAR from the first

Dating back to Smash Wii U, Cloud got in when his game of origin had never touched anything with Nintendo in the name, and right after Remake was announced as a PS4 exclusive. The only things he appeared in on those platforms were usually small spinoffs like Thearhythm and Kingdom Hearts. Even Ryu, who has had Street Fighter games on Nintendo consoles, ended up appearing significantly more on Sony platforms, with the latest game in his home series at that time being a PlayStation exclusive as well. I don't even have to explain Joker either. I'm pretty sure he's the first Smash character in history with none of the main entries in his home series playable on any Nintendo hardware whatsoever. Even inclusions like Snake in Brawl were notable for his franchise having very sporadic and few appearances on Nintendo platforms compared to Sony and even Xbox consoles. There's stuff like Twin Snakes being GameCube exclusive, but outside of that and Ghost Babel, Nintendo platforms mostly missed out on Metal Gear stuff, since Snake Eater 3D came out many years after Brawl, and even then no Nintendo console has ever gotten games like MGS2, 4, 5 or Rising despite there being Spirits in Ultimate using official artwork from all of those games.

This has been a thing for way longer than most people realize. It's just that before it didn't seem as obvious because there were other third party characters with more Nintendo history to balance it out Hell Kazuya has more Nintendo appearances than any of those other examples excluding Ryu, given there's stuff like Tekken Advance (a GBA port of Tekken 3), Tekken 3D on the 3DS which is based off Tekken 6 and Tag Tournament 2 on Wii U which even featured exclusive Nintendo content. That's way more right there than characters like Joker or Snake ever really got

Especially given the Switch is attracting people who've long since fallen out of love with Nintendo and moved to other platforms I think the approach of getting characters that are more widespread will only help in making Smash a more compelling purchase for them. It worked in my case since I literally bought the Fighters Pass early for Joker. Limiting things to just the third party characters super relevant to Nintendo means you're bound to run out at some point. It's extremely limiting

@Northwind Metal Gear did not start on Nintendo consoles. In fact the NES port was commissioned without Kojima's consent. The official canon version of the game is the MSX2 original, and it's the one that has always been re-released with every Metal Gear collection like being packaged with MGS3 Subsistence, HD Collection and the Legacy Collection on PS3. The NES original has long been stricken from canon by the existence of Metal Gear 2 Solid Snake and its subsequent sequels (which you probably should've known to begin with considering there are two tracks from the MG series in Smash that originate from the MSX2 games and not the NES games), and the last time it ever got a re-release was the Wii Virtual console version.

To answer the other questions, fighting game players may look down on Smash but the solution isn't to just flat out give up on them. Ryu, Ken, Terry and Kazuya are all important to gaming history and headline historically significant franchises regardless of their Nintendo-relevant status. Kazuya in particular comes from a series that has gone on to become pretty much as iconic and popular as Street Fighter is in the competitive and even casual scene. At least casual non-Nintendo fans will probably know Tekken by name

Nintendo players may not have much experience with Tekken but at least the franchise is known widely enough to appeal to more than just a select few people. Smash has gone way past trying to just cater to Nintendo players. I doubt those people have much experience with Persona, FFVII or Metal Gear either, but the Switch is also attractive to people who might not necessarily play typically on Nintendo consoles. I've already seen some people on Tekken communities like the subreddit saying they plan on getting a Switch for Smash to play as Kazuya, and considering Smash is literally an EVO game, of course the FGC would generally take notice of something like this

You have to remember the most important thing about Smash. It literally wouldn't exist without other fighting games. The whole idea of Smash came about when Sakurai beat someone else at KOF, and it piqued his interest in trying to simplify the formula for more casual players. The guy is a genuine fan of fighting games, and if you saw his console set up in the Min Min presentation, he plays way more than just Nintendo consoles. Without franchises like Tekken, KOF or SF, Smash wouldn't be here in the form it is today. It absolutely deserves its spot among other characters, even if Nintendo people might've preferred someone else.

So does every fighter in this game have to have a game on the switch or somthin? and why is nobody talking about the fact that bandai Probably has a deal with nintendo, and has added there characters in the game, in the past.

@Snatcher Bandai literally co-developed Smash with Nintendo and Harada and Sakurai are good friends. It's not even surprising Tekken got in this quickly

@Northwind Sorry I think of more points to add after the fact all the time

It's just that it's kind of disheartening seeing people condescend on picks like these in Smash when there's very legitimate reasons they do this stuff. I didn't even mention Nintendo themselves suggested Kazuya to Sakurai when they could've gone with someone more Nintendo relevant to begin with

@TheFrenchiestFry It makes alot more sense now. I do remember reading about that, How good palls they are.

Only one DLC fighter left. Something tells me it won't be Geno or Pheonix Wright. As long as it isn't Master Chief I'll be fine I guess.

The Geno ship has long sailed imo

Considering Sakurai has mostly used Mii Fighters to get characters in the game who had were longstanding requests like Dragonborn, Dante and Shantae, he probably put Geno in that same camp as well

I'm honestly convinced at this point DOOM Marine or Slayer is showing up somewhere. There's way too many coincidences that point to anything otherwise. At least a Mii costume for Gunner

My brain always wants to connect a new fighter to a new game release, and it never happens that way with these DLC fighters. In spite of that, I'm thinking it'll be Metroid Dread. I'd be okay with Doomguy, even if he seems incongruous with the rest of the cast. Have there been some hints that it would be him?

I can see that. Makes sense.

If the next fighter is really the last one Nintendo would end it on a first party character, or at least a game that is published and promoted by Nintendo. On Wii U it was Bayonetta, on Switch it could be something like Shin Megami Tensei V.

ARMS, Minecraft, Xenoblade Chronicles 2, and Tekken were all more or less predictable.
But now speculation has reached its peak because there's nothing to reference anymore. All old Mii costumes are re-released, many popular characters have been deconfirmed, and all obvious fighters are out.

The last one will be a huge surprise, however it's more likely that it's not a 3rd party character.

At this point I'd really go with someone like Ayumi Tachibana (from Famicom Detective Club which recently came out on Switch) or Chorus Kids from Rhythm Paradise. Those have been in consideration/development for quite some time. Alex from Advance Wars would also make sense now with Re-Boot Camp coming out in December. I love the idea to get a Nintendo first party character that has no fighter representation. I personally would love Chibi-Robo and Sin and Punishment, because in my opinion that are 2 of Nintendo's best games. That's why I would be totally fine with Golden Sun Isaac.

I just hope it's not another Fire Emblem or Pokémon character. Don't get me wrong, I like both series but they were treated well enough with new characters and all the returning ones, while other great series fell completely under the Smash radar. Obviously a new FE character is totally out of question but another Pokémon has still a very high possibility.

I'm honestly conflicted on whether the next fighter will be first or third party

On one hand they could've made the fighter count in this pass 6 to even out the third party to first party character ratio, but on the other they have to be aware of how much they practically broke the internet with Bayonetta last time (although at this point she's practically an extended family member to Nintendo). Granted picks like Joker, Sephiroth and Steve did that as well but I feel like they almost know that no first party character they have could possibly live up to the internet reaction and free promo for their game they got off of Bayo being the last character in Smash 4.

That and considering the first party characters in the DLC this time were seemingly picked to rep Switch-era Nintendo games, I'm struggling to think of who else could make the cut from that crop since it seems characters like Min Min and Pyra/Mythra were purposely selected to give their respective games a rep after missing the launch roster window due to their games being in development alongside Smash, and I'd really rather it not be a Sw/Sh Pokemon

Obviously it would be fantastic if there was Tekken Tag Tournament 2 - Wii U Edition on Switch, since it is the best Tekken game ever made, and, like Smash, has all characters ever playable. It's the definitive Tekken.

This ultimate version of Tekken being released on Wii U and the general popularity of Tekken makes Kazuya a worthy entry.

He's way more different than any other fighting game character, with his ability to transform, his focus on combos, and his amount of special moves. And if you look into his story, he's a badass character.

It was always going to be Tekken or Tales Of. Another Namco character was imminent and long overdue.

Also, Sakurai has shown his love for great fighting games plenty of times now. We know he loves Akira from Virtua Fighter, so for the next Smash game, I can see him being one of the next fighting game reps.

I think fighting game fans would flip out with Sega contributing Virtua Fighter, Namco contributing Soulcalibur, and SNK contributing Samurai Shodown next time around, sprinkled with a bit of Fulgore, Chun-Li, and Scorpion here and there.

Though there's so much more great choice beyond just fighting game characters, especially with Sega and Capcom.

Anyway. From what I know, Joker is the only character that has his most significant game not available on any Nintendo console - if you don't count its mother series Shin Megami Tensei. But if you do, every fighter is valid.

PS: I have 1486 spirits now.

@SKTTR TTT2 being considered best Tekken is something I don't hear a lot lol

I do like that the Wii U version had all the exclusive Nintendo tie ins and content. If a Tekken were to come to Switch obviously I'd prefer T7 with all the Season Pass characters but TTT2 would be pretty cool if they kept all the Nintendo stuff

Honestly if there's any fighting game franchise left to be repped in Smash it has to be Killer Instinct imo. MK can't happen because the series has been banned in Japan for the time being but I'd totally be down for a KI character like Fulgore or Cinder, even if they're technically Microsoft reps

@TheFrenchiestFry As a huge Rare fan back in the SNES/N64/Gamecube era I pick Fulgore, Conker, and Joanna Dark over Master Chief, Ori, and Cuphead any day.

Man, I would love a Killer Instinct collection featuring the 5 Nintendo originals. Yes, that includes the Super Game Boy version.

#RareReplay4Switch

@SKTTR Conker or any KI rep would honestly hype me up significantly more than Banjo-Kazooie, especially KI if they base the fighter appearances off the sick redesigns in the 2013 game

Lmao they kept the jab towards Nintendo for causing Project M to cease development in the Switch version of DDLC

Nope, sorry. The new KI team, I think Double Helix is their name, should hire a better artist (Everything else was good). Human character faces like Jago and Orchid look pretty bad, just like the fur effect on Sabrewulf. Character design is KI 2013's weakest element, but by that point we got used to Microsoft's horrid Rareware redesigns. At least the gameplay was spot on.

@TheFrenchiestFry I think the main potential 1st party candidates given the Switch focus of the already added 1st party Ultimate DLC fighters would be:

• Sylux (seemingly a major character in Metroid Prime 4 and doesn't have a spirit ingame meanwhile some of the other hunters from Metroid Prime Hunters do have spirits)
• Dixie Kong/Cranky Kong/Funky Kong (if the rumour about Nintendo bringing the DK franchise back from a long hiatus is real)
• Gen 8 Pokemon
• A Kirby character

If it was to be a 1st party character I would guess a Kirby character such as Bandana Waddle Dee would be most likely given Sakurai created Kirby (using the same logic that led to Kazuya as the penultimate character, Bandai Namco is 1 of the development studios that worked on Smash Ultimate).

I do think 3rd party is more likely though, 3rd party additions won't have just been about adding characters to Smash but also helping Nintendo get 3rd party support for Switch as Nintendo realized after the Wii U era that 3rd party support is important for systems to be successful.