WiiWare Forum

Topic: Shouldn't WiiWare games be.....better???

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RJay

1. Posted:

You can do a lot with 40 mb....just think of all the great SNES classics that were up to 32 mb. But instead we get all these casual games. It feels like 90 percent of WIiWare games are puzzle! I mean can't developers be original with their WiiWare titles while still putting effort?

I just wish they would make games that will last a long time and that we can remember in our minds 10 years from now. No one is going to remember a game about using your Wii remote to simulate playing catch. But everyone remembers Chrono Trigger, and Chrono was done with just 32 mb!! A classic game can be done under 40 mb, but they aren't trying anymore. Not everything has to have the best 3d graphics, I wish they could just make the graphics more 16 bit like, and give us classic, legendary games, comparable to SNES classics, on WiiWare for a good price, rather than giving us casual games with 3d graphics and tacked on Wii controls.

Water Warfare 3481-0499-8502
Super Smash Bros. Brawl 2535-5527-9255

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RJay

2. Posted:

I realize though that the sequel to Final Fantasy 4 is coming out, which I'm looking forward to. But they need more of that! Maybe not Final Fantasy exactly, but they need more deep games like FF4. Every game should be that grand in scope.

Edited on by RJay

Water Warfare 3481-0499-8502
Super Smash Bros. Brawl 2535-5527-9255

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luke17

3. Posted:

completely agree!!! and i really do think games like that would sell a ton of copies too!

luke17

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goldwyvern

4. Posted:

I agree, but you need to look at the 'coming soon' section and look at swords and soldiers, super meat boy, eduardo the samurai toaster, and a few other games that will be hits. Heck, Cave Story fits your specs almost perfectly!

goldwyvern

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KDR_11k

5. Posted:

1. 8 bit graphics use way less memory, paletted stuff uses fewer bits per pixel. Modern systems use many more bits per pixel and paletted graphics are plain out of place there.
2. 8 bit consoles ran at 320x240 or less. The Wii runs at 640x480. Unless you want stuff to deliberately look blocky (which people wouldn't accept) you'll have to go with the higher resolution.
3. 8 bit games were AAA titles back in the day. They had full teams with full budgets and full dev times and sold at full price. WiiWare games are developed with reduced teams (which admittedly may still have the same size as the old teams) on reduced budgets and reduced schedules (no 2 year dev times, half a year or less is usual) and get sold only in an online store at low prices. The most expensive WiiWare game is 20€ (SIGE) and that was simply rerouted from a retail release.

If you actually make a game that uses paletted graphics, low resolutions and a full dev cycle you can instead go for a DS release and sell the game for 40€ at retail instead of 5-10 online and go for an audience that doesn't consider 16 bit style graphics uncommon.

WiiWare is more suitable for games that are too small to be sold at retail but may still require the full power of a console.

Raincoat whore!

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Adam

6. Posted:

If someone is going to make an epic game like Final Fantasy (excluding a port of an already made cell phone game which takes minimal effort), they are going to put it on DS or Wii, not WiiWare or DSiWare. Like KDR said, to make the graphics appealing to that weird audience who doesn't like retro graphics, it takes up a lot of space. But also, games like that take a lot of time, resources, and manpower. It's not worth it for a small service with a more limited audience than retail.
Don't get me wrong. I'd love to see WiiWare as an outlet for new Zeldas, Final Fantasies, Metroids, etc, but I just don't think that's what the service is made for. And if I'm ever proven wrong, I'll be celebrating with you.

Come on, friends,
To the bear arcades again.

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gig

7. Posted:

I'm a big fan of the download sevices of WiiWare and I've downloaded my fair share of games. Some have only been played for a single night or over the first week of purchase but the likes of Lost Wind, My Life as King, Toki Tori and World of Goo have been played almost as much as I would spend on any retail game. Geometry Wars on 360 was one of the resons I bought the console and along with Geometry Wars 2 are my most played games over the last year easily.

I've downladed Bit Trip Beat this morning and so far it seems pretty cool, and as a game I think it's exactly what the WiiWare service should be all about.

I remember before WiiWare was launched there was alot of talk about individual ideas and inovation sadly it doesn't always happen but there are certainly a few gems on the service worth playing

gig

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Dawnclaude

8. Posted:

Currently we're developing a RPG also for WiiWare (Announcing coming soon in June ;)) we do this because we think there is a lot of potential for indy RPGs in this digitial distribution market and sure we know that we dont have much competition, because RPGs are often expensive and therefore risky.
But you must understand that is not possible to create a RPG like you know it from the big markets.
If you want to play the oldschool SNES RPGs then play them on Nintendo DS, there are enough of them.
There is a reason why My Life as a King is not a real RPG.
There is a reason that Penny Arcade is an episodic RPG. (on XBLA and PSN)
But Im sure its possible to find a compromise in gameplay, graphic style and gamelenght to make the RPG fans happy.

Edited on by Dawnclaude

A new Fantasy Tactical RPG will be announced for WiiWare this month.

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Adam

9. Posted:

Oh? That's certainly good news. Who is the "we" you speak of? What company do you represent, Dawn Claude? I hope you can prove the viability of the RPG on WiiWare!

Edited on by Adam

Come on, friends,
To the bear arcades again.

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blockhead

10. Posted:

__adam wrote:

Oh? That's certainly good news. Who is the "we" you speak of? What company do you represent, Dawn Claude? I hope you can prove the viability of the RPG on WiiWare!

i would also like to know this information

blockhead

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Philip_J_Reed

11. Posted:

RJay wrote:

You can do a lot with 40 mb....

This is true, but there are a lot of great WiiWare games that DO do a lot with 40mb. World of Goo, obviously, Mega Man 9, Bit.Trip: Beat, Onslaught, Tetris Party, TV Show King...

...those are just ones I like. And I'm leaving off a lot. And there are other games I haven't played that look great.

I understand your concern...there IS a lot of crap on the service. But there are also a lot of very talented developers giving us truly excellent experiences.

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Dawnclaude

12. Posted:

I think that too, and its good that those quality games like World of Goo have big success. Its also an encouragement for other indy companies.

__adam wrote:

Oh? That's certainly good news. Who is the "we" you speak of? What company do you represent, Dawn Claude? I hope you can prove the viability of the RPG on WiiWare!

I represent Silent Dreams, we came from the pc market. Not famous yet because we had big problems with publishers. (tales of sadness! ;)) But Our Lead Programmer was Lead of the Gothic1-3 series for example. (famous RPG series in Europe)
We also worked on a part of Sacred2. So, we are one of those smaller, independent teams with lots of RPG experience and passion. More information coming soon... :)

Edited on by Dawnclaude

A new Fantasy Tactical RPG will be announced for WiiWare this month.

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jpfan1989

13. Posted:

Dawnclaude, I look forward to see what you have offer us.

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Omega

14. Posted:

I think Gothic 1 is top class. Altough it had some annoying bugs, I found it very entertaining. If Silent Dreams are planning on making a Gothic-like RPG with a similar 3D Engine, then that's something I would really like to see on WiiWare.

Ωɱɛɡɑ

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Dawnclaude

15. Posted:

That would be a bit unrealistic for WiiWare with 40 MB limit size. ^^ So you must find another , not classic way.
But with some design creativity you can create a RPG that will entertain you. My Life as a King was one way to do that and there are others...

A new Fantasy Tactical RPG will be announced for WiiWare this month.

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Omega

16. Posted:

I think Final Fantasy Crystal Chronicles MLAAK ist not really a RPG. It's AFAIK more like a strategy game. Are you planning on making a strategy game like this?

How would such a game look like, I mean graphics wise? Like Neverwinter Nights or Zelda Phantom Hourglass which feature 3D graphics with the majority of camera angles coming from a top-view? Or rather the old-fashioned way like in Final Fantasy 1-6 or Zelda: A Link to the Past?

Ωɱɛɡɑ

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Adam

17. Posted:

Awesome! Looking forward to it, Dawn Claude. Keep your friends at Nintendo Life updated! :)

Come on, friends,
To the bear arcades again.

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KDR_11k

18. Posted:

If you haven't announced the game isn't it an NDA violation to even talk about announcing it?

Anyway, I suppose for longer games it's not possible to fill them with a lot of content and generation has to be used, like random dungeons in a dungeon crawl game.

Raincoat whore!

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Adam

19. Posted:

He's only said he's making an RPG for WiiWare. That's not much information. And if it isn't for commission, he can't exactly break an NDA he has with himself. :D

Also, random generation for levels is awesome. Infinite replay value. I wish more games would make use of that, but I'll of course be happy either way if it's a good RPG. :)

Come on, friends,
To the bear arcades again.

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Omega

20. Posted:

I do not believe that games with interesting content are not possible because of memory limitations. There are enough games that prove that good games with a lot of variation can be realized with significantly less than 40MB. Even with 3D graphics.

For example a game like "Super Mario 64" fits on a 64-MBit Cartridge. That is only 8MB. And is that a good game?

  • "Banjo Kazooie" needs 16MB
  • "Banjo Tooie" needs 32MB
  • "Perfect Dark" needs 32MB

And yeah. Random level design is awesome. At least if you want to create a game with no effort and absolutely no heart and soul. It's like writing poems with a software that generates random words.

Edited on by Omega

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