Wii U Virtual Console Forum

Topic: Nintendo Has Overcome Technological Hurdles to Making Virtual Consoles

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Ootfan98

21. Posted:

SparkOfSpirit wrote:

Hopefully this means they're working a deal out with Sega and all their systems. That would be quite a lot more titles if they could get those on there.

A better VC Arcade would be nice, too. Late '80s and '90s arcade games never get the releases they deserve.

This

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Super_Gravy

22. Posted:

Peach64 wrote:

Super_Gravy wrote:

@shingi_70: Even that is true for Vita but not all PS1 and PSP are playable on Vita. Heck I think they are going slowly on that device. I still can't play Sypro and Crash on it. (Some reason Sony mobile phone can play Crash and Vita does not.)

I don't think people giving enough money for Classic or Virtual Console services to get them working on emulators quickly.

I've played through the entire Crash and Spyro trilogies on Vita, so you might want to give that another try, buddy. Pretty much everything works on the Vita.

@Peach64:
Really? I going check then. When the last time you check?

EDIT: I just check and I still can't find it PS store Classic listing. Also I check my download list to find out that I can't download it to my Vita. So how you play it then? Is this because you are from Europe?

Edited on by Super_Gravy

Umm… Care to have some gravy?

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ACK

23. Posted:

I read it as referencing DS VC titles, in particular. But hey, if they turn things up a notch, I'll buy this excuse.

However, Japan has quite a few more Wii U VC releases (100 vs 66), so...

Edited on by ACK

ACK

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Samurai_Goroh

24. Posted:

Nintenjoe64 wrote:

I hope they make a proper Virtual Console and not just increase the extent of the current system. At the moment it seems they are putting 1MB of ROM data in a 35MB emulator so each game is taking up loads of space.

This. Nintendo, when you have a NES game that gobbles up to 30 MB of space in my system, YOU'RE DOING IT WRONG!

Edited on by Samurai_Goroh

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Super_Gravy

25. Posted:

@Peach64: Turn out that North American can't play those games but European can. :(
Sorry for confusion and misunderstanding I cause.

Edited on by Super_Gravy

Umm… Care to have some gravy?

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skywake

26. Posted:

Samurai_Goroh wrote:

This. Nintendo, when you have a NES game that gobbles up to 30 MB of space in my system, YOU'RE DOING IT WRONG!

They do also have full manuals and 30MB is hardly going to chew up all of your storage. You'd have to download a good 150+ before they'd even come close to filling up 5GB of storage. I don't know why you'd be particularly worried about it.....

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Sean_Aaron

27. Posted:

skywake wrote:

Samurai_Goroh wrote:

This. Nintendo, when you have a NES game that gobbles up to 30 MB of space in my system, YOU'RE DOING IT WRONG!

They do also have full manuals and 30MB is hardly going to chew up all of your storage. You'd have to download a good 150+ before they'd even come close to filling up 5GB of storage. I don't know why you'd be particularly worried about it.....

Yeah even on the Wii the issue was more running out of channels when it came to VC content - unless it was internal. Even the basic Wii U has enough storage that 30MB for a NES game isn't a problem.

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KingMike

28. Posted:

skywake wrote:

Samurai_Goroh wrote:

This. Nintendo, when you have a NES game that gobbles up to 30 MB of space in my system, YOU'RE DOING IT WRONG!

They do also have full manuals and 30MB is hardly going to chew up all of your storage. You'd have to download a good 150+ before they'd even come close to filling up 5GB of storage. I don't know why you'd be particularly worried about it.....

Does the Wii U have actual manual scans? Because those Operation Guides on the Wii are pretty much just a text file with a few pictures, that's not going to eat up much space (now PSN, they give you digital copies of the original manuals).

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mamp

29. Posted:

Well I better start getting some VC games or else I can't guarantee the coronel's secret recipe for fried chicken will remain a secret. Is it a threat maybe.

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skywake

30. Posted:

KingMike wrote:

Does the Wii U have actual manual scans? Because those Operation Guides on the Wii are pretty much just a text file with a few pictures, that's not going to eat up much space (now PSN, they give you digital copies of the original manuals).

It's basically a webpage with some art and screencaps, it wouldn't be that big really but still probably bigger than the ROMs themselves. Plus I'd assume they have an emulator with it tuned and tested for each game. Either way I doubt 30MB is going to break anyone's storage....

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Intrepid

31. Posted:

I believe these "Technological Hurdles" are the reason we never got Harvest Moon 64 on the Wii VC, iirc. This is good news.

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SCAR392

32. Posted:

VC is porting old games, so this probably means that they just figured out how to port any old title.

The VC menu gives abilities to games that they didn't have on the original hardware.

The fact that games are put out at a higher resolution, is a pretty clear indication that they aren't emulating VC games.

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SCAR392

33. Posted:

@Atariboy
It's not emulation, though. You'd be able to tell if VC games were upscaled, because the pixels wouldn't be as consistent. VC games are being ran at native 1080p resolutions, unless you're factoring in the aspect ratio as part of that resolution. Video/images can be displayed at 1080p, but not utilize the entire screen.

They aren't upscaling VC games. They have the original files. Hell, they probably still have NES development kits. All they would have to do is get those to run as native software on Wii U, and that's probably what they did.

You don't need emulation if you have the original files. Even Wii games aren't being emulated. The Wii U is running Wii software, because it's a Wii, plus a ton more.

EDIT: If you're getting direct hardware benefits, it's not emulation anymore. Just look at the GamePad in Wii mode. They wouldn't be able to make that happen, if it was emulation.

Edited on by SCAR392

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skywake

34. Posted:

@SCAR392
There are different kinds of scalers you know. The NES displayed its games at 240 pixels high so there's a lot of pixels to play with when you're upscaling it to 720p or 1080p. It's about 4.5 pixels which translates fairly well because you can make every second pixels 5 pixels high instead of 4 or just blur that last pixel. The GamePad is basically just 2x so that's even better. When going to the 3DS they can just make it full screen because the 3DS runs at what is effectively 400x240.

The DS -> 3DS problem is because the DS screen was 192pixels high and the 3DS has a screen that's 240 pixels high. So not a high number like 4x or 3x but instead 1.25x. That's when it looks average. You have to blur otherwise every fourth pixel is twice as large.

And yes, they can run the game on the GamePad if it's "just emulation". That's nothing fancy, they're just pushing the display to that screen. They can push the display in WiiMode to the GamePad and that required no re-writing of all of the Wii Software.

Edited on by skywake

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SMEXIZELDAMAN

35. Posted:

ogo79 wrote:

:*

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AJ_Lethal

36. Posted:

Methinks a good chunk of those 30MBs must be from the PDF reader used to read the manuals

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DudeSean

37. Posted:

AJ_Lethal wrote:

Methinks a good chunk of those 30MBs must be from the PDF reader used to read the manuals

I think it's HTML.

DudeSean

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sonicfan1373

38. Posted:

I will believe it when I see it. Last year they announced GBA and N64 support but we did not see anything, and there have been very few major VC titles that have been released that have actually been worth it. So unless they start delivering I am going to remain skeptical.

sonicfan1373

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SCAR392

39. Posted:

@Atariboy
I don't even remember WTF you're talking about. Even if it is emulation, it doesn't necessarily have to be. That's more important than the debate we're having about it.

EDIT: While I realize that there are different scalers, as @skywake said, VC games factually wouldn't have 480p resolution if these games were being emulated. Starfox 64 ran directly off of the hardware. I know this, because the game ran faster and smoother than the original release. They eventually updated it, so that it would stay true to the original. Like I said, once you get direct benefits from modern hardware, it's no longer JUST emulation.

EDIT2: Even if I'm wrong, it's because of lack of information. That will never be mine, or anyone else's fault. The fact that you brought up past mistakes(that I don't even remember), gives me more reason to not give a damn about exactly what we're debating. If you read something that I posted a year ago, how would you expect me to not have more information or critical thought than I had? That's basically like saying that you didn't expect me to learn anything, even though you are aware that I did.

EDIT3: Last edit... It's called simulation. They added GamePad support, higher resolutions, different control methods, and even having the game on an HDD, instead of a cartridge or disc is simulation. That's why I'm saying that even if the core part is emulated, it still isn't 100% emulation, only, which means that these games could just as well run native if they coded them to. It's about what it is, and what it could be.

Edited on by SCAR392

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skywake

40. Posted:

@SCAR392
What you're describing is emulation, period. If I acquired a NES, SNES or N64 ROM I'd obviously first be struck down by the IP gods which is why it's not something anyone should be doing. But if I did I'd then be able to run the game off whatever storage media I wanted, not restricted by the original system's limitations. You could play the game on any old input and any old display. You could scale the game upto a higher resolution and even render 3D objects at a higher resolution. You could take the parallax effect and throw different layers at different depths to make it 3D. All of this without modifying the code. This for example:

Can guarantee that getting that working like that at 1080p involved no redevelopment of Skyward Sword. It almost surely required a lot of work on the emulator and if they were to make it a product like Nintendo would they'd need to put even more effort into making sure it was ok. Nintendo can easily do the same for N64 games on the Wii U although because of the limits of the N64 original the effect won't be as dramatic. With 2D games there's even less you can do because it's all sprite based but they can still improve it and add features like GamePad support, save states and scaling without any modification of the original code. This would all be still emulation, that's what emulation is. If it's running on the exact same hardware it's not emulation it just running natively.

On a side note after watching that video... I really, really want to see them make a HD remake of Skyward Sword. Damn that game looks good in HD. Better than any of the other Wii games that have been given that treatment. Just.... wow....

Edited on by skywake

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