tbh, I don't know of a single HD remaster (that was actually a game remastered to now be in HD and not just a blatant lie) that's been a complete success. Even Shadow of the Colossus remaster had some notable physics issues IIRC.
Wind Waker HD's slowdown was annoying, but more because Wind Waker HD is such a smooth looking game. I legitimately didn't realize it wasn't 60 FPS until more than halfway through. I'm not one to even get that annoyed by it if it only rarely happens but those rare moments were sooo disappointing because it's Wind Waker. It's meant to be smooth looking, more than most games even.
It's also a matter of where frame drops happen in a game. In WW:HD, the (big) frame drops affects the gameplay, since it's in sequences where it's crucial to have full control. The (small) frame drops shown in TP:HD are in a transition area where HD alpha blending kicks in for the fog effect, that doesn't affect the gameplay whatsoever.
If there would be frame drops in a sequence like the downhill snow race in TP:HD, that would be a really serious issue.
@kkslider5552000: If those numbers are correct for NA pre-orders, that means TPHD is going to sell more copies in one day than Mario Kart 8 did in its first week, lol.
It's not entirely unreasonable when you consider that the Wii U install base is twice as large now as just before Mario Kart 8 came out (6.17 million as of March 31st 2014 compared to 12.70 million as of December 31st 2015). Zelda games also tend to be massively frontloaded compared to an evergreen franchise like Mario Kart, not to mention we're talking about NA here, which has been the market for Zelda since its inception.
Edit: And most games sell most of their stock within the first few days. It doesn't take much to outdo a week's worth of sales since most of that comes from those initial days anyway.
It is unreasonable, even if those numbers were for Zelda U, a game with a lot more hype behind it. Twilight Princess sold less on the GameCube and Wii conbined during its first week. If these numbers are true, this game is on track to outsell TP(Wii) FW with a 2:1 ratio. It would have the best opening week of all Zelda games by a large margin.. on the Wii U.. That's not going to happen.
Is there any practical reason WW and TP HD are at 30 FPS? Like that's how the game was designed and it just wouldn't function correctly at 60, or is it just "eh, looks good enough at 30"
Not sure about this one, but I heard that the game's assets and animations were originally designed to run in 30 fps, therefore they wouldn't work if they would increase the frame rate.
And yeah, Zelda team has been confident in releasing their games in 30fps since Wind Waker, so I doubt they are even trying to aim for 60fps. I'm not even sure about most of Zelda games about their frame rate. I'm quite sure NES and SNES Zelda games ran at 60, but not so sure about Link's Awakening and Oracle games. N64 had frame rate at about 20, and after that console Zelda's have been generally 30. A Link Between Worlds (and presumely Tri Force Heroes as well) where 60x2, si the game ran in frames per second even 3D enabled.
@jariw: ~370,000 for the Wii version, the GameCube version only sold a fifth of the Wii version, so its first week numbers are obviously lower than that, combined not more than 500,000 I'd imagine. 550,000 for just the pre-orders on the Wii U version is ridiculous, that's not even counting the regular day one sales and weekend sales.
It is unreasonable, even if those numbers were for Zelda U, a game with a lot more hype behind it. Twilight Princess sold less on the GameCube and Wii conbined during its first week. If these numbers are true, this game is on track to outsell TP(Wii) FW with a 2:1 ratio. It would have the best opening week of all Zelda games by a large margin.. on the Wii U.. That's not going to happen.
~370,000 for the Wii version, the GameCube version only sold a fifth of the Wii version, so its first week numbers are obviously lower than that, combined not more than 500,000 I'd imagine. 550,000 for just the pre-orders on the Wii U version is ridiculous, that's not even counting the regular day one sales and weekend sales.
It was the Wii's launch week. The first question you have to ask is how many Wii's were sold that week? I've read it was around 460k in the US. Twilight Princess FW numbers were obviously not going to be higher than the total sales of the system (and one that quickly faced stock shortages at that). Not to mention the GC version was practically left to die.
Skyward Sword doubled TP's FW sales and that game's nowhere near the latter's LTD. When you have an established install base it's easier to have bigger FW sales because the audience that would want the game likely already have the console. Nobody had the Wii the day TP came out, but a potential 12 million have the Wii U now.
@cookiex: Doesn't matter, the GameCube still had an install base of around 20 million, left to die or not, the Wii U's in the same boat if I have to believe the headlines these days. Well, Skyward Sword had a good launch on the Wii during the holidays, comparing that game to TPHD isn't fair. We'll see though.
@Morpheel: @Tsurii: There's also the second boss fight (Forbidden Woods) when you cut all the vines that support Kalle's petals and the petals fall down. I kinda liked the slowdown... made it look and feel more epic.
I know the Wii U can prevent that kind of slowdown. With WWHD, Nintendo just took the GC version and made it shinier. I don't think they bothered to optimize the game when it comes to frame rates and such.
With that said, I think Nintendo should have used the "frame rate drops" as an effect for the game, as it kinda feels natural. The whole game would have run at 30fps, but there would be scenes where it looked like the frame rates dropped.
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Is there any practical reason WW and TP HD are at 30 FPS? Like that's how the game was designed and it just wouldn't function correctly at 60, or is it just "eh, looks good enough at 30"
I think it's both a technical and stylistic choice, but not an arbitrary choice. Technically, when there's a choice between framerate and resolution, Nintendo clearly chooses resolution.
Artistically, 3D Zelda games are now established as being told in 30 fps (as @Andyliini pointed out), and that has become part of the Zelda story telling style. It's similar as each enemy hit in a Zelda game get a artificial frame freeze. Also, I guess that for many people, tales from the past make more sense when told at slower frame rates, while futuristic stuff makes more sense at higher frame rates?
BTW, Zelda U seems to go even further in the frame freezing thing than past games, in that you can freeze time while aiming.
@Vee_Flames: There's a difference between the "artificial" slow downs that happens because the game was designed that way, and frame rate issues that happens because of a bottleneck in the program. The frame drops at see in the Digital Foundry test of WW:HD is caused by too much things happens on screen.
So it's like when other devs make their games 30fps for a more cinematic feel?
Exactly.
But a game with a 30 fps cinematic feel that relies heavily on lots of fast action elements (such as car chases), or has huge frame drops will loose that feel. I'd say the main ingredient in a Zelda games are puzzles.
Artistically, 3D Zelda games are now established as being told in 30 fps (as @Andyliini pointed out), and that has become part of the Zelda story telling style.
Ok sorry but if this counts as valid reason, ANYTHING counts as a valid reason. I would take "30 is a lucky number in Japan" as a better justification.
One factor that alleviates the frame-per-second issue in a Zelda game is the targeting system. The most action occurs in combat during which the camera is almost always centered on a single target. There isn't a lot of camera panning, and it's in third-person. While I'd still prefer 60 frames-per-second for sure, it's not as big a deal to me in a third-person 3D adventure game as it is in a racer or first-person game for example.
Don't get the wrong idea though. I'm almost always rooting for 60 frames. Don't buy the "cinematic" argument in 90% of cases.
Anybody else willing to try a Ganondorf Amiibo, Hero Mode, 3-Heart Challenge?
I plan on playing with Hero Mode + Ganondorf Amiibo. Quadruple damage should make the game a lot more challenging. I don't plan to do the 3-Heart Challenge. I tend to go the 100% route including Heart Pieces.
Honestly, while I don't consider myself someone who cares much for graphics, I'd much rather have seen this game come 2-3 years later.
I'd like Twilight Princess to have a few more years to be missed before Nintendo revived it, and I'd have liked to see a full HD revamp rather than a re-release with some updated textures. I think that, if it had had more time, we would have seen that.
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