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Topic: Do you think this Nintendo merger/acquisitions thing will be announced at E3?

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Ryno

41. Posted:

Klimbatize wrote:

Finally, we're going to get the Wii Wii--the true successor to the Wii.

Yeah, it's part of the "non-wearable" health technology that is not confined to the living room that Iwata has alluded too.

Edited on by Ryno

I miss Japanese games, the good stuff... Games that are imaginative, have good and unique gameplay, a great soundtrack, and replay value.
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DudeSean

42. Posted:

Here's a quote from me from a while ago:

DudeSean wrote:

So... I've been checking out the staff for Rare throughout it's history, and so far I've found 25 people that are still working for Rare / Microsoft Game Studios that was working at Rare when they were with Nintendo (starting from the NES to the N64 days). This is also the majority of the people that have worked on each game during Nintendo's time with Rare.

If anyone would like I can even list off the names of the 25 that I have found so far, as well as the year that they started working at Rare.David Wise (1989), Chris Sutherland (1994), Brendan Gunn (1994), Mark Betteridge (1989), Steve Mayles (1994), Mark Stevenson (1994), Chris Peil (1994), Robin Beanland (1994), Gregg Mayles (1990), Dean Smith (1995), Chris Tilston (1994), Pete Cox (1994), Ken Lobb (1994), Paul Machacek (1991), Simon Farmer (1990), Keri Gunn (1995), Trevor Attwood (1995), Steven Hurst (1995), Leigh Loveday (1995), Mark Edmonds (1997), Duncan Botwood (1997), Paul Mikell (1995), George Andreas (1996), Kieran Connell (1998) and Ed Bryan (1998).I could have kept going, but I'm getting tired and I think I can get my point across with these 25.

Martin Hollis left to form zoonami. It doesn't look like anyone else from Rare left with him.

Stephen Ellis, David Doak, Karl Hilton and Graeme Norgate left to form Free Radical. That's four people.

So, now, can we finally stop saying that "everybody's gone"?

My research was done by checking the credit listings on mobygames.com.Not all of these people are listed as working for Rare, but they have worked with Rare since the nes-n64 days and continue to work with Rare now.

Yes, I still want Nintendo and Rare to get back together again. The VC service alone would benefit tremendously. Battletoads, DKC, Goldeneye, Perfect Dark, Conker's Bad Fur day, Wizard & Warriors, etc. Nintendo could have it's FPS franchise back, Perfect Dark, which is something that Nintendo really needs. All Microsoft is doing by owning Rare is screwing everyone over. It's screwing Nintendo fans as well as the employees at Rare. Microsoft should really, for everyone's sake, do the right thing and "give" Rare back. And by "give" I mean sell at a reasonable price.

Edited on by DudeSean

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DefHalan

43. Posted:

faint wrote:

2Sang wrote:

I would like to see nintendo buy a few studios because they desperately need an edge in the short-term and there's not enough first party games to get that edge. Maybe buy Capcom, but that's probably just wishful thinking. I think they should try and buy wayforward too because they keep growing and gaining more prominence in the industry, not to mention they're a perfect fit for the family friendly yet hardcore style nintendo's best at.

for every good wayforward game they make three or four piles of crap. realy look it up.
i would rather them buy platinum or level 5 seeing as how sega picked up atlus. i would love to see sega and ninty merge as well. it would start an internet meltdown. unfortunately sammy would never let that happen and it would cost too much.

Those bad ones are generally licensed kids games which the publishers probably have to much control

http://dudehugespeaks.tumblr.com/post/44243746261/nickels-dimes-and-quarters
http://www.penny-arcade.com/patv/episode/why-console-specs-dont-matter
http://www.gamasutra.com/view/news/200271/Video_Don_Daglow_on_nextgen_transition_traps_and_treasures.php

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Tasuki

44. Posted:

DudeSean wrote:

Here's a quote from me from a while ago:

DudeSean wrote:

So... I've been checking out the staff for Rare throughout it's history, and so far I've found 25 people that are still working for Rare / Microsoft Game Studios that was working at Rare when they were with Nintendo (starting from the NES to the N64 days). This is also the majority of the people that have worked on each game during Nintendo's time with Rare.

If anyone would like I can even list off the names of the 25 that I have found so far, as well as the year that they started working at Rare.David Wise (1989), Chris Sutherland (1994), Brendan Gunn (1994), Mark Betteridge (1989), Steve Mayles (1994), Mark Stevenson (1994), Chris Peil (1994), Robin Beanland (1994), Gregg Mayles (1990), Dean Smith (1995), Chris Tilston (1994), Pete Cox (1994), Ken Lobb (1994), Paul Machacek (1991), Simon Farmer (1990), Keri Gunn (1995), Trevor Attwood (1995), Steven Hurst (1995), Leigh Loveday (1995), Mark Edmonds (1997), Duncan Botwood (1997), Paul Mikell (1995), George Andreas (1996), Kieran Connell (1998) and Ed Bryan (1998).I could have kept going, but I'm getting tired and I think I can get my point across with these 25.

Martin Hollis left to form zoonami. It doesn't look like anyone else from Rare left with him.

Stephen Ellis, David Doak, Karl Hilton and Graeme Norgate left to form Free Radical. That's four people.

So, now, can we finally stop saying that "everybody's gone"?

My research was done by checking the credit listings on mobygames.com.Not all of these people are listed as working for Rare, but they have worked with Rare since the nes-n64 days and continue to work with Rare now.

Yes, I still want Nintendo and Rare to get back together again. The VC service alone would benefit tremendously. Battletoads, DKC, Goldeneye, Perfect Dark, Conker's Bad Fur day, Wizard & Warriors, etc. Nintendo could have it's FPS franchise back, Perfect Dark, which is something that Nintendo really needs. All Microsoft is doing by owning Rare is screwing everyone over. It's screwing Nintendo fans as well as the employees at Rare. Microsoft should really, for everyone's sake, do the right thing and "give" Rare back. And by "give" I mean sell at a reasonable price.

How is MS screwing the employees? I can see why fans would say fans but honestly the employees are employed aren't they. Screwing the employees to me would be MS shutting down the studio. Yeah they have made some games that you or I don't like, but that doesn't mean they are screwing the employees.

Honestly MS was smart buying up Rare when they did. They were a fledgling company in the console business and they needed some studios to be able to compete with Sony and Nintendo and Sega (I say Sega cause at the time they were in the console business). What better then to grab a big name like Rare to add to their portfolio. I read somewhere that Tim and Chris Stamper (the founders of Rare) did offer to sell it to Nintendo but at that time Nintendo passed on it. Well the Stamper bros wanted out of the business, Nintendo passed, Microsoft saw the opportunity and pounced on it and the Stampers got a large sum of money to start their next venture, that's all there was to it. There was no shady dealing going down or revenge tactics it was business pure and simple.

You Nintendo fanboys just need to give it a rest and stop acting like Microsoft stole Rare from Nintendo.

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DudeSean

45. Posted:

Tasuki wrote:

How is MS screwing the employees? I can see why fans would say fans but honestly the employees are employed aren't they. Screwing the employees to me would be MS shutting down the studio. Yeah they have made some games that you or I don't like, but that doesn't mean they are screwing the employees.

Honestly MS was smart buying up Rare when they did. They were a fledgling company in the console business and they needed some studios to be able to compete with Sony and Nintendo and Sega (I say Sega cause at the time they were in the console business). What better then to grab a big name like Rare to add to their portfolio. I read somewhere that Tim and Chris Stamper (the founders of Rare) did offer to sell it to Nintendo but at that time Nintendo passed on it. Well the Stamper bros wanted out of the business, Nintendo passed, Microsoft saw the opportunity and pounced on it and the Stampers got a large sum of money to start their next venture, that's all there was to it. There was no shady dealing going down or revenge tactics it was business pure and simple.

You Nintendo fanboys just need to give it a rest and stop acting like Microsoft stole Rare from Nintendo.

Alright, let's start at the beginning...

How is Microsoft screwing the employees? Well, I guess you're right, at least they're employed. But they're not making the games they would like to be making. They would like to be making Banjo-Kazooie 3 and a new Diddy Kong Racing. Microsoft doesn't allow them to make BK3 and, well, obvious reasons for the second. Instead, Microsoft has them making Wii Sports rip-offs. Microsoft also rushed their efforts on Perfect Dark Zero, so that they could get the game out for the release of the xbox 360. I think we all know that Nintendo would never do that. Nintendo will happily delay a game as many times as necessary in order to make sure the quality of the game is up to par. In fact, Goldeneye for the n64 would have never have been possible under Microsoft, as that game took them years to make. Microsoft would have either rushed them and we would have gotten an on-rails shooter instead, or the game would have been cancelled. And I also think we all know how much of an impact Goldeneye has had on both gamers and game developers. So, using that evidence right there, I would say, Rare is much better off with Nintendo than Microsoft. I'm sure you'll come up with some counterpoint that involves calling me a fanboy to make yourself look good and myself look bad, but fact are facts.

Just a small point here, SEGA officially announced that they were going third party in January of 2001. The first xbox released in November of 2001. Microsoft purchased Rare in September of 2002. So SEGA was not in competition with xbox before the xbox even existed. Just saying.

I am completely aware of the situation involving Chris and Tim Stamper, Nintendo, Activision and Microsoft. Nintendo didn't even want to buy 49% of Rare, but Chris and Tim kept getting Nintendo to buy more and more until eventually Nintendo bought 49%. I know Nintendo screwed up and should have purchased more to become the majority owner of Rare. I'm not sure why Nintendo did not want to do that, especially after Rare produced so many hits for Nintendo. Chris and Tim Stamper aren't off on a new adventure, though. They're retired. They took the money and ran. All fairly, yes. But they left a huge mess in the gaming industry to do so and that is not respectable in my eyes. I never said there were any shady dealings or revenge tactics. Don't put words in my mouth to make me sound like a bad guy and try make yourself sound better.

And the name calling. If all else fails, just call the person you disagree with a fanboy and you've won he argument, right? And you, again, put words in my mouth to further prove your point as to why you disagree with me, saying that I implied that they stole Rare. If you have to resort to lying and name calling, then maybe your point isn't strong enough to stand on its own, huh?

DudeSean

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Tasuki

46. Posted:

@DudeSean: Ok dude seriously you need to stop acting like everything I say is an attack towards you cause it isn't. I don't know why you think that but honestly if you do well then you and I are going to have big problems.

Second how do you know that MS is keeping their employees from making the games they want to make? Honestly that sounds like any gaming studio unless those people have started their own. Since when does being employed by someone means you get to do what you want to do? You are being payed to do what they want you to do. If they don't like it they could go elsewhere no one is forcing them to stay with Rare and MS.

Third I wasn't putting word into your mouth I never said that you said they were shady dealings going on. I said that as overall feeling that people feel when it comes to Rare and MS.

Honestly you do this everytime you think that everyone is speaking to you when they are not and it's getting quite old. Quite honestly you and your opinions have never been that important here so quit acting like it.

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Jazzer94

47. Posted:

DudeSean wrote:

How is Microsoft screwing the employees? Well, I guess you're right, at least they're employed. But they're not making the games they would like to be making. They would like to be making Banjo-Kazooie 3 and a new Diddy Kong Racing. Microsoft doesn't allow them to make BK3 and, well, obvious reasons for the second

Okay seriously how do you even know what games Rare want to be making, do you work there? (sarcasm)

Edited on by Jazzer94

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jariw

48. Posted:

DudeSean wrote:

So, using that evidence right there, I would say, Rare is much better off with Nintendo than Microsoft.

That might be so, but that's not relevant in the business world. MS bought Rare and can do whatever they do with a company they bought.

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shingi_70

49. Posted:

How do you know if rare isn't making what they want to make. I mean most of the employees there these days are new Highers or older folks.

Also its funny Microsoft killed them when they could have closed down after VP. Instead they made kinect sports which sold a lot. I mean they made 4-5 core games before kinect sports and non of them sold well.

WAT!

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Ryno

50. Posted:

Untitled

I miss Japanese games, the good stuff... Games that are imaginative, have good and unique gameplay, a great soundtrack, and replay value.
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Rynoggery

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shingi_70

51. Posted:

I'd take it Killer Instinct is pretty damn awesome.

WAT!

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CaviarMeths

52. Posted:

Ryno wrote:

Untitled

Too bad MS didn't even have Rare working on the new Killer Instinct. :(

Courage is the magic that turns durrr into reherrdurr.

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DudeSean

53. Posted:

@Tasuki Excuse me for assuming that since you quoted me that you were talking directly to me. Honest mistake, I assure you.

They've already said that they wanted to make Banjo-Kazooie 3 but Microsoft had them make Nuts & Bolts instead. If I could find the quote I would show it to you, but try googling banjo-kazooie 3 and see what kind of results you get. It's hard to sift through everything to find the quote. I recall them saying that there were other games that they wanted to make, too, but don't recall which ones. If you don't want to believe me, then so be it.

No, they're not being forced to stay there, but it's a job. You don't usually quit a job unless you have another job lined up and they're likely getting paid well since their employer is one of the biggest corporations of the world. Some have left, but even if they leave that's not going to allow them to make Banjo-Kazooie 3.

I never said my opinions were important, but I don't see why I don't have the right to defend my opinions, regardless of their importance.

@jariw That's true, but that doesn't mean I have to like it or agree with it.

@shingi_70 Yeah. Perfect Dark isn't going to sell as well on a system that has Halo, the biggest CoD fanbase, Gears of War, etc. Nuts & Bolts isn't going to sell as well as Banjo-Kazooie 3. And Rare's fans have Nintendo systems, not Xbox systems. So, even though some might think it was a smart choice for microsoft to buy Rare, I think it was a stupid one. And to back that up, the microsoft executives who bought Rare thought they were going to get Donkey Kong, so yeah, they were stupid.

Thank you @mipaol.

Edited on by DudeSean

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mipaol

54. Posted:

ROFLMAO @ Microsoft thinking they could ever get their hands on Donkey Kong.
fixed link

Edited on by mipaol

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Tasuki

55. Posted:

DudeSean wrote:

@Tasuki Excuse me for assuming that since you quoted me that you were talking directly to me. Honest mistake, I assure you.

They've already said that they wanted to make Banjo-Kazooie 3 but Microsoft had them make Nuts & Bolts instead. If I could find the quote I would show it to you, but try googling banjo-kazooie 3 and see what kind of results you get. It's hard to sift through everything to find the quote. I recall them saying that there were other games that they wanted to make, too, but don't recall which ones. If you don't want to believe me, then so be it.

No, they're not being forced to stay there, but it's a job. You don't usually quit a job unless you have another job lined up and they're likely getting paid well since their employer is one of the biggest corporations of the world. Some have left, but even if they leave that's not going to allow them to make Banjo-Kazooie 3.

I never said my opinions were important, but I don't see why I don't have the right to defend my opinions, regardless of their importance.

Of course you never said that your opinions were important it's the way you act. Every time you post something base on YOUR opinions you insult other users and act like no other facts or opinions matter.

Again since when does being at a job give you the right to do what you want, you are there to do what the employer wants. Don't like it well those devs can go and start their own games studio plenty of others have.

Still Nintendo fans need to quite blaming MS for Rares downfall as I said before Nintendo could have owned Rare but they passed on it. Oh wait but I forgot in Nintendo fanboys eyes Nintendo can do no wrong, my mistake.

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DudeSean

56. Posted:

Tasuki wrote:

Of course you never said that your opinions were important it's the way you act. Every time you post something base on YOUR opinions you insult other users and act like no other facts or opinions matter.

Again since when does being at a job give you the right to do what you want, you are there to do what the employer wants. Don't like it well those devs can go and start their own games studio plenty of others have.

Still Nintendo fans need to quite blaming MS for Rares downfall as I said before Nintendo could have owned Rare but they passed on it. Oh wait but I forgot in Nintendo fanboys eyes Nintendo can do no wrong, my mistake.

I don't understand how I insult others or act like other facts or opinions matters. Perhaps if you could help me understand that then I could stop doing it as I am completely unaware of doing so.

This job in particular that we are talking about is a game developer. It's a very creative job. How are you supposed to be good at a creative job if you're not allowed to use your own creativity? If you own a restaurant then your head chef is going to have to be able to do things at least somewhat his way, otherwise it won't be as good. If the head chef is doing things the way the owner wants and has no input, that's going to have an effect on the food. Same thing here with the games. Rare is more than just game developers, though, and anyone who denies that is ignorant. Rare has been around for a long time and has since built up a collection of IPs, most of which are no longer being used at Microsoft, but pretty much all of them would be used at Nintendo, if not for just the VC service.

Gamers in general just have so much more to benefit from Rare being with Nintendo than with Microsoft. Rare games would sell better on Nintendo systems, especially now with the Wii U since the Wii U is lacking games that Rare could be making / putting out on the VC. Xbox doesn't need Rare's games. Nintendo does (for the gamers' sake.) Again, denying that is just ignorant.

Okay, so are you not talking to me in that last part? Because I know you said that even though you're quoting me and replying to me in posts that it doesn't necessarily mean you're talking to me, which I just find odd. It seems to me that you're again calling me a fanboy and I already admitted that Nintendo made a mistake by not buying Rare, so I honestly have no idea who you're talking to.

Although, if I understand you correctly, you're not denying that Rare has had a downfall and that Microsoft is part of the reason for that, but the main reason for that is because Nintendo decided not to become the majority owner of Rare. Okay. So it is Microsoft's fault, but it's not, because Nintendo could have stopped it. Everything bad that has ever happened could have been prevented, but you don't blame the people that didn't prevent it, you blame the people that are responsible for it. That's like if I dropped my plate of food on the floor and you didn't catch it so I blame you for it hitting the floor. It's my fault because I dropped it, not your fault for not preventing it.

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Tasuki

57. Posted:

@DudeSean: You are correct I was not talking to you at the last part that was just a thought out loud. I was using my phone to respond and I have problems formating in forums and such.

What I am saying is that yes what has happend to Rare is sad, I wont deny that Rare was one of my favorite studios before MS got a hold of them and I do think that yes some good would come out of it if Nintendo did own them. What I am tired of is people acting like MS decided to buy out Rare to spite Nintendo. I did read that at one time MS wanted to bring GoldenEye 64 out to the XBLA but Nintendo and them couldn't reach an agreement, but then again I have heard the same thing with the VC only it was MS fault. Honestly the way I see it is BOTH companies are at fault here but people seem to think its all Microsofts fault.

Yes they may be under utilizing the studio but who are we to say that they are. I mean obviously the games must be selling cause they haven't closed the studio down. Yeah it might not be the caliber of a Banjo or GoldenEye or even a KI game but it's something. Yes the developers might be stifled creativity but after all MS is the one who pays the bills in the end. IMO if those developers wanted to make a Banjo 3 they could easily make one and they don't necessary need the Banjo name or characters. Take Might No. 9 for example. Inafune wanted to do another Mega Man game, for whatever reason Capcom wouldn't let him so he left and created Might No. 9. It may not be Mega Man in name but everyone knows its basically the next Mega Man. I think the whole story of them wanting to make Banjo 3 and MS not letting them is just more fuel to add to the MS is the evil empire bonfire.

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