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Topic: Emulating Super FX

Posts 6 to 25 of 26

brooks83

I'm sure it's possible, but who knows how long it will take for them to figure out how to do it.

brooks83

antdickens

Yeah thats a fair point actually, dunno where the Super FX games are - I would assume the emulation wouldn't be a problem, afaik PC emulators have managed it - maybe they're just on the way. Stunt Race FX anyone?

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SepticLemon

According to something I read a while back, Nintendo is having a hard time both emulating the FX chip, and trying to get the rights to emulate it from Argonaunt Industries. From what I heard, Argonaunt is fairly hesitant to allow Nintendo emulating the FX Chip.

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Adam

Untitled

That doesn't sound right to me, though I wouldn't know. I just can't imagine Nintendo wouldn't have the rights to release its own games that it once released on its own cartridges. I'd love to read where you got that information from. If it's true...

Edited on by Adam

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SepticLemon

I see that, but it was Argonaunt that made the FX Chip, back then Nintendo and Argonaunt were making Technologies for the SNES, and when Nintendo were designing the N64 (or Ultra Famicom/Ultre 64) they moved with Silicon Graphics. Argonaunt have rights over the FX chip, and since they don't work with Nintendo any more, they can say no if Nintendo want to reverse engineer and emulate the FX Chip.

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Adam

@ Senor Lemon
Where do you get this information from though is what I was asking. I understand your argument; it's just that it doesn't sound believable. Why would Nintendo have the rights to all the hardware they've ever manufactured except for this one chip? In the absence of a credible source, I can't imagine that if Silicon Graphics said, "No, we wanted you to have the N64 hardware back then, but not anymore," that N64 emulation on VC would be impossible. Nintendo would guard the rights to their own games much better than that, and although the FX chip was used in only a limited amount of games, I would assume they would do the same for it. It's just not smart business otherwise. I'm not saying you're a liar or anything; it's just that I'd like to read about it for myself straight from the source to better understand such how Nintendo could make such an unfathomable blunder.

Edited on by Adam

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Bass_X0

Did GBA Yoshi's Island use the FX Chip?

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Kknight

Bass+X0 wrote:

Did GBA Yoshi's Island use the FX Chip?

I don't believe so, but I also don't think it matters since the GBA version was a port rather than an emulation of the original.

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SepticLemon

Like I said, it was something that I read, it could've been crap for what I can tell, but it was mentioned way back in early '07 on some site I forgot the name of. It mentioned how they had both problems with Emulating it and getting rights to the chip; then again you might be right Adam and that the article is BS. And Unforntunatly I can't find the article. Then again it would be interesting to find out why Nintendo delaying FX chip games.

As for BassXO, you got a point there, maybe they were able to use a smaller sized FX Chip for GBA hardware, or something else that pulled off polygon renders on the GBA.

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thewiirocks

I don't think the problem is Argonaut Games. Primarily, because they don't exist anymore. The problem is more likely the issues caused by Argonaut's non-existence. Someone still owns the rights and will be paid royalties. Since the company is in a billion little pieces, that gets difficult to determine. Do it wrong, and someone Nintendo didn't count on comes along and sues them.

The SuperFX chip is a particular complication because the technology is currently owned by ARC. ARC sells descendants of the chip as embedded microprocessors. Question: How does one value the chip? Does ARC get a large chunk of the royalties for owning IP related to the original game? Or do they need a licensing agreement separate from the previous royalty agreements? It's a complicated issue.

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theblackdragon

Star Fox is one of the games I own cartridge-wise, and out of curiosity I downloaded the ROM to play via emulator on the Wii (and when they release it via VC i will be purchasing it, thanks). i had no problems with the console itself playing the game (and I played the hell out of it when I was younger; i would know if something wasn't being rendered properly), so i would guess it's some issue hindering Nintendo that wouldn't hinder writers of unofficial emulation software... licensing sounds plausible.

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Adam

It could be they just happen to be holding back on these games and we're getting worked up over nothing. They do have to hold back some good titles or the VC would lose our interest eventually.

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Neomega

I have emulators for games wont come to VC.

Alien vs. Predator

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theblackdragon

__adam wrote:

It could be they just happen to be holding back on these games and we're getting worked up over nothing. They do have to hold back some good titles or the VC would lose our interest eventually.

also plausible. it's not like they haven't done it before.

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Teppo_Holmqvist

There isn't legal issue about emulating SuperFX chip. After Texas Instruments vs. Intel in 1978 (year can be wrong), US laws have allowed reverse-engineering hardware for development, guaranteeing compatibilty, etc, etc, and the law has been pretty much adapted by other countries too. This is why all emulators are legal, even if they are used by more than few people for piracy. To avoid confusion, it is worth mentioning that the law doesn't allow you to reverse-engineer software. This is why NeoGeo and PSX-emulators require user to get BIOS file. Still, even BIOS can be skipped by interpreting all bios calls without BIOS itself. But this is very tricky and I know only few cases where this has happened (most notable being late Bleem!).

In any case, SuperFX chip doesn't contain any software application insde it. Nintendo can, and probably already has emulated the chip, but main problem with Virtual Console is that Nintendo is running out of its own games. Something like Star Fox will be certainly reserved for special occasions. Furthermore, if Nintendo hasn't already emulated SuperFX, the company probably thinks that it isn't number one of the priority list. After all, there isn't too many games that use SuperFX chip. SA-1 (which is already emulated) chip was far more common in later high-end games.

I hope this clarifies things little bit.

Edited on by Teppo_Holmqvist

Teppo_Holmqvist

madgear

Of course the Wii can emulate the FX chip! Even my phone can get FX chip (and Mega CD) games running on it! If some bedroom programmer can get it working on a phone then surely Nintendo themselves can manage it on the Wii. Just because they were hard to emulate back in 2000 doesn't make them impossible now. If it's emulated on PC (and isn't superior hardware) it can be done on the Wii.

Rest assured Nintendo are just saving FX games until SNES titles dry up a little.

madgear

Adam

Well, they'll just have to make Mega Man X9 then. Problem solved.

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ShaneM

I want X2 and X3 though.

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Storm_Owl

The thing is about the Super FX Chip is Why can't Nintendo emulate that? I mean if Nintendo can emulate the expansion pak on N64 Why can't they emulate this? Look at homebrew's Snesx9 Emulator It can play any super Nintendo game even Super FX games

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