Topic: The everything Xbox thread

So this was basically Microsoft saying ''Hey guys, we've got a PS4 Pro too! Goodbye, see ya!''...

Next time, don't tease a reveal if you're just going to release some hardware specs. If there's no actual console reveal or games to go with it, don't even bother.

My concern is the same but worse that I had with PS4 Pro.

It cant have exclusive titles in force. They have locked themselves into this, and if you want to use that absolutely monstrous jump in power on either system, you have to still make your game work on the lesser one. The jump is bigger here than it was from PS4 to PS4 Big Mac Edition, which means the full capabilities of the system cant be used, because of the base systems needing it to run on there too.

Which now begs the question: What was the point? All these two machines have done is marketing, pure and simple. The real world benefits on a scale that matters cant be present because it would come at a cost of pushing away consumers, so what are these machines for?

Sony and Microsoft waving their terafloppies at each other and trying to get a leg up on who can say the most powerful console to entice sales for the next few months. In terms of hardware they have nothing to differentiate them, they know this, so now there is a constant leg up over each other to pull ahead.

But they cant fully commit because it would push away existing users.

Well done guys. You're choking yourselves with this desire to one up each other.

@BLP_Software And in the Scorpio's case it's even worse as 3rd party devs aren't gonna take advantage of the extra power it provides over the Pro as the Pro has an entire year's head start on install base!

The specs are impressive enough. Plan on selling my old Xbox One from 2014 to help fund a Scorpio purchase later this year. Still think we're going to see some exclusives for this hardware as well. Seems to be more than an Xbox One 'Pro' to me.

@IceClimbers Why wouldn't they? Higher frame rates, resolution and/or higher res textures aren't that difficult to implement. They're not developing a second game or anything like that. I think it only took one or two people and a couple of days to create the Pro patches for older PS4 games iirc. The games are developed on PC after all, so it's ''just a matter'' of flipping some switches (of course exaggerating, but you get my point!).

@BLP_Software You're on a roll today!

A few of us were talking in another thread yesterday about this. Similar conclusions. I still have a theory that MS is hedging. They're being semi-coy about it having to support the base platform. I think if it sells big, they might give their X1/X1S base the finger and make it an XBox 2 as a separate platform with exclusive games. Sony can't do that so MS could force their way into a new generation by basically bait and switching their customer base. Might backfire, badly (when have I heard of something planned for the XBox One family backfiring? Oh, that's right, launch) but I think they have that idea in mind.

It would force Sony to make a move which could benefit MS. If it doesn't sell well enough to do that from the start though (and it won't if it starts as just a "prettier X1 for a lot more money" like the Pro) it might really hurt XBox.

OTOH this generation what we've seen is consumers aren't buying platforms, they buy hardware. They don't care what software runs on it, they just want a numbers chart to show them they're buying the one with the highest numbers. They have no idea what they actually bought, just that it's the most powerful. That's how PS4 got off to the rocket start it did. NOW it also has the better library (by a long shot) but not for the first year or so, where it sold just because it had bigger numbers (and, frankly because MS had just given the finger to their customers...)

The arms race is going to ruin them both though. In the other thread we were comparing all this to Sega's pattern of death (Genesis->32X mid-gen-bump, SegaCD mid-gen-bump -> Saturn: Failed before it started, ->Dreamcast, didn't fail but needed to dig so far out of such a deep hole it had no chance to even try before they had to cut their losses. If DC wasn't the Wii, it was done.) Sony replaced their console with a meaningless overpriced "upgrade" that gives a "modest boost" to "some games" three years after launch. That's worse than WiiU, and admitted the original wasn't sufficient. Then in the same breath MS announces the exact same thing, only that they're doubling down on power that can't be used, and that they won't release it for another year. They jaded a lot of customers with this, both of them. The early adopters were given a slap in the face. And then in 2-3 years they'll pull out PS5/X2 and say "now this is the REAL upgrade, you should buy this one, the other one was just a modest bump, we told you that!" So now we have the XBox x32 and the PS4 CD. Can't wait for XBox/Playstation Saturn.

I know Sony has said they'd like to follow the Apple model where there are no console generations, and instead of a PS5 they'd just have upgraded PS4s forever that eventually the older ones won't work with newer games. On paper it sounds great, but then, isn't it just a PC? "You require PlayStation 4.3.6 or greater to play Assassin's Creed 23" Both companies seem to be trying that model, and to be fair, even Switch could work on that model. So far Sony and MS are still pretending they're not doing that though.

@Ryu_Niiyama Wait, don't go! Wait! WE HAVE KINECTIMALS 2!!!! Isn't that reason enough? Pleease stay!?

The more I read into the Scorpio specifications, the more I think, 'why don't they drop the Xbox One altogether and start from scratch?'.

As a PlayStation 4 Pro owner, the Scorpio sounds like a PlayStation 4 Pro 'one-year-later' edition to me. I also cannot help but feel somewhat flabbergasted that a whole year and a bit later in terms of technology, Microsoft chose to use the aging Jaguar CPU!

If you are going to create a 'premium' product, as the head of Xbox openly labels it, they should be handpicking premium components.

Saying that, 12GB GDDR5 is probably the best thing about the Scorpio, specifications wise, given that it provides developers an extra 3GB of usable RAM for games over the PlayStation 4 Pro. Whether they choose to make the most of that remains to be seen though.

After today, I strongly believe that the Nintendo Switch and PlayStation 4 is (still) the best combo.

Everyone is talking about specs right now. But let's be honest. I don't think that the Scorpio will be in a good place at launch, and that's why: PS4 has a really big installed base, with PS4 Pro that is arrived for over a year, Nintendo has the Switch with Super Mario Odissey for Christmas (and Zelda, and Splatoon...and maybe something else too?) and Microsoft comes out with this monster power machine with a price that is AT LEAST 500? I don't think they are in a good position to even try to win the market, if this is their goal...

@FGPackers
To be fair we still need to get through E3, see what MS' lineup is and what the official price will be. If they want to take loss, they can sell this machine at $400 and that would be a steal. I would agree though that based on what we know now, the Switch is a much more exciting proposition. It may not have the specs but it's got the games for sure. In addition to Zelda, Mario Kart 8, Mario Odyssey and Splatoon 2 there will probably be Arms or Xenoblade Chronicles 2. Plus there's a lot of really good looking indie games and I'm still expecting some big E3 announcements from Nintendo as well. MS definitely has its work cut out for it, but the new console is a beast and if a big third party exclusive is nabbed in addition to having Forza 7 and probably Crackdown 3, MS can do extremely well in the North American and UK markets this holiday.

@NEStalgia Between your response to BLP and MS's push to make games work on both Windows 10 and the xbone it is just a better value proposition for me to slap win 10 (I'm not dropping windows 7 yet sorry) on to my gaming pc (it is hooked up to the TV anyway and I have a xbone controller on it so ...I already have a Scorpio lol?) and just use it for the few exclusives I've got left for the system. That way if they pull a "Scorpio only" or a it runs like butt on the the One then I can still play the superior version without buying another box. The next box I'm buying is a console-ized NEO GEO MVS at this point... and a replacement NES. If the twins are going into the cell phone cycle they are going to have to start taking more losses and lower the price of the boxes as a whole. I don't mind paying 300-500 for a system that I won't have to "upgrade" for 4-6 years but if we are going to move to a biannual cycle to get hardware that is still less powerful than my PC I'm going back to Nintendo/PC only. Half the Ps4 games I want keep getting pc ports anyway. So many fighting games are going PC so I'm losing my "ok I HAVE to own this system to keep up competitively" reasons as well. I think if I was just a gamer I wouldn't care because I would want to have a museum to my hobby but I need a new telescope, gaming isn't THAT serious.

The industry's current VR phase isn't helping to endear me either.

I've got a feeling that the Scorpio is just a stopgap solution to keep Microsoft in the picture for the rest of the generation. Their next thing will be called Xbox 10 and it will be a pre-made PC with Windows 10 installed for under your TV. I think that's a likely scenario right now. It makes sense to make their games available for PC, since they own Windows too. However, without bringing the pros of a PC over to the Xbox, the idea of owning an Xbox fades away pretty quickly once you realise you can invest that money in a gaming PC too.

I sat through the digital foundry reveal and was bored outta my skull. Nothing they said captured my imagination or lubricated my wallet.

@Ryu_Niiyama Well, the ENTIRE purpose of the creation of the XBox to begin with was simply to enforce DirectX and Windows as the standard for gaming that was becoming increasingly being siphoned off by the PS2. That was bad in a time where game sales drove hardware sales and hardware sales drove Windows sales. That's the only reason it exists at all. MS didn't care at all about the console race. They just needed to cement developers into the Microsoft ecosystem as they were toying with shifting to OpenGL to support other platforms in increasing numbers. The purpose of XBox was to secure the Windows monopoly. But it's outlived it's intentions, and they're not quite sure what to do with it.

But yeah, that's the thing. The whole reason we buy consoles is a fixed "best experience for that platform I can get" investment for 6-10 years. That's how they sold all those PS4s is a reputation that if I buy now, i'll be current for years! If we're moving in to that being a 2-3 year cycle, they start getting a lot less attractive. They lost focus of what consoles are and Sony sadly took Microsoft's (and EA/Ubi/Acti) bait and tried to make consoles a PC competitor, which means they need to upgrade just as fast. And the rapid upgrade cycle on PC is the whole argument for console to begin with! This will not end well for one of them. Perhaps XBox Two will just be an app in the Windows Store.

"The industry's current VR phase isn't helping to endear me either."
Not even two eyes makes it more endearing.... I know it's a niche and a fad, and it won't go mainstream for a long, long time if ever (seriously who wants to be strapped into a goggleset for hours? I'm guessing staring that close into LEDs for hours is a great way to end up with NO eyes...)

It'll have a following as its own product, and that's great. I just wish they'd shut up about it overall and stop trying to make it happen. That goes mostly to Sony and "the industry" more than either MS or Nintendo of course. Hololens is much cooler, and much much much more expensive. Nintendo's been very polite about "we're of course looking into when VR becomes viable" and not just bursting out laughing with "and you people say WE have gimmicks?"

@Peek-a-boo Thing is if they REALLY hold true to the commitment that games have to run on the 1 (big if), what can really be DONE with the extra ram or CPU? Bigger textures, ok. But you can't really have more physics, more NPCs or anything else different about game design that can't be scaled back for the 1. So it's still just the same game, only rendered prettier. "Pro one year later edition" as you beautifully said.

@Octane You're pretty right about that I think. That's really all they're trying to do with the 1 anyway. And it fulfills XBox's destiny. OTOH they'll effectively shut down the XBox division or sell it off at that point.

If Switch does GREAT you might see an XSurface though, which would combine your idea with the hybrid idea. It would actually be a cool product if they did it, but I'd terrified of the pricetag given what a SurfaceBook runs for.

I can see that actually. I really thought back when the xbox was introduced that they were using it as a gateway to either revitalize the pc market or to get console gamers to "go pc" via a convienient box. And now that we have the Steam box this is more likely to be the case. Might even explain why windows 10 and the death of Games for Windows is so much more invasive than the previous OS builds (baring vista) as they are going to need a strong DRM system in place in order to gatekeep the windows 10 store. (sucks for consumers though, but if they do it in a way that I don't really notice then what is ONE MORE store front huh?) It could bode well for development cycles as the PC build would be the primary build for many games and we may have a few less optimization issues. Here's hoping.

@NEStalgia A surface gaming edition could give them something to do with the standard surface line. I do somewhat want to see a survey 10 years from now for vision issues in a post VR world.

@GrailUK oh hey forgot to respond to you earlier. My avatar is Perfume. They are a J-electropop group.

@Ryu_Niiyama Ah thank you

Looks like Digital Foundry is at it again, Scorpio footage of Forza at 2pm UK time today.

Really does seem like the game announcements at E3 will be the deciding factor here. Project Scorpio does seem like the real thing in terms of the hardware itself but E3 feels like more of a software battle (Switch games vs. PS4 games vs. Scorpio/XB1 games) than a hardware battle (Switch vs. PS4 Pro vs. Scorpio).

Black Ops 2 is now Backwards Compatible for the Xbox One.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.forbes.com/sites/erikkain/20...

This thread is like a ghost town...

It's nigh on time to temporarily revive it with my E3 hopes and expectations for the Xbox One going forward!

Please bare in mind that I am approaching their show with a sense of realism, as I honestly think that at least 20 or 30 minutes of Microsoft's E3 conference will be dedicated exclusively to the Scorpio, whether they end up rambling on about the hardware itself, the inevitable price reveal or proudly highlighting the technical difference between the games running on the Xbox One S and Scorpio.

Anyway, here goes:

First Party
Scorpio box/hardware, the price and a release date reveal
Forza Motorsport 7 (September 2017)
State of Decay 2 (October 2017)
Crackdown 3 (November 2017)
Minecraft (new content)
Sea of Thieves (February 2018)
Ori 2 (March 2018)
Battletoads (Spring 2018)
NEW IP (a new AA game like ReCore) (Spring 2018)
Halo 6 (Holiday 2018)
NEW IP (a new AAA game like Quantum Break) (2018)

Xbox Live
New Xbox Live features
Find out more about the Xbox Game Pass
A shake-up of sorts for the Games with Gold service

Third Party
Indie montage (Ashen, Below and Cuphead)
Assassin's Creed (set in Egypt)
Middle-earth: Shadow of Mordor
Wolfenstein: New Colossus and/or The Evil Within 2 (both games are rumoured to show up at the Bethesda E3 presser, and they have a rather cosy relationship with Microsoft too)

And that's that.

I also predict that the Scorpio will be $499/€499/£429 along with a 1TB hard drive and a controller. It would be nice if they took their losses and start it from $399/€399/£349 however, that would put their hardware division in the red for quite sometime. It is a 'premium' product after all.

This time in four weeks time, Microsoft's E3 conference will be over and done with. Out of the three companies, it is Microsoft that has the most to prove to everybody at E3 in a months time. A powerful half-step console doesn't mean anything to me without a compelling line up to show for it.