they don't have the patience or are willing to get better at it.
i dedicate almost every saturday to play/beat a game. if i dont beat it that saturday, ive studied it for another day of beating. *this message is powered by:
the_shpydar wrote:
As @ogo79 said, the SNS-RZ-USA is a prime giveaway that it's not a legit retail cart.
And yes, he is (usually) always right, and he is (almost) the sexiest gamer out there (not counting me) ;)
To say a board game is broken because it uses dice misses the whole point of the game. When I was a kid, my sister and I played Monopoly with our parents. If it weren't for the dice, we wouldn't have had a chance of beating our parents. We played because every now and then the smartest players couldn't do enough to beat the dice. That's what makes it a game.
This smells a little like the blue shell argument in Mario Kart. The best players don't want any element that might keep them from winning. If you win every time, it's not a game anymore.
To say a board game is broken because it uses dice misses the whole point of the game. When I was a kid, my sister and I played Monopoly with our parents. If it weren't for the dice, we wouldn't have had a chance of beating our parents. We played because every now and then the smartest players couldn't do enough to beat the dice. That's what makes it a game.
This smells a little like the blue shell argument in Mario Kart. The best players don't want any element that might keep them from winning. If you win every time, it's not a game anymore.
Nice theory, except it's possible to have the best of both worlds.
Eurogames, such as Puerto Rico, or Power Grid, or Dominion, or Agricola, or Catan (though Catan does have a dice roll, it's relatively unimportant compared to a Monopoly) are designed in such a way that there's little direct competition. Each player has their turn building things, or making things happen, and there's no easy way to even tell who is winning until right at the end of the game.
Which in turn deemphasises the value of winning. They're social games, applicable to the whole family, without being frustrating in the slightest.
@PolkaDotChocobo: I just have a hard time believing that dice and randomness have been removed from Board games, it seems like such a strange idea. Although admittedly I haven't played a board game in a long time.
@PolkaDotChocobo: I just have a hard time believing that dice and randomness have been removed from Board games, it seems like such a strange idea. Although admittedly I haven't played a board game in a long time.
I have a hardtime believing it too, I live in Europe & have never heard of these games... which maybe makes me think they haven't done well enough to be mainstream, or even cult successes. Being a long time player of Warhammer 40k though in which dice feature VERY heavilly, it's possible to make games which are fun, fair and rely on tactics WITHOUT removing the randomness. It just depends on the particular developer not being lazy.
BTW, I love Monopoly & have VERY rarely lost.
Danté: Old, cool & wise (the latter two are lies)
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I have a hardtime believing it too, I live in Europe & have never heard of these games... which maybe makes me think they haven't done well enough to be mainstream, or even cult successes.
Hm, good logic. "I haven't heard of it so it mustn't be popular!"
If you have walked into a board game shop in the past five or ten years, and had a proper look around, you would have seen these kinds of games:
And that's just a tiny fraction of them. That is the new wave of board game design - that a cooperative games, because, as I said earlier, they're social games with little competitive element and few frustrating random elements.
As for Warhammer: Wargames are an entirely different genre to board games, and yes, you're right, those need a random element, to accurately reflect the random nature of war.
But by nature, most wargames (Warhammer being the exception, because it isn't based on history) don't even try and be balanced. They whole point of those is to recreate real battles in history, and winners and loser are a rather moot point in those games.
But without the risk & reward gameplay, what's the point of beating a game if you don't feel victorious?
There is no point to beating a video game. How much fun you have playing it is what matters. For a lot of people playing the same level over and over again until they memorize it isn't fun, it's frustrating.
Actually, there is point in beating a video game. The reason I continuously attempt to beat Demon's Souls isn't because it's the most fun game I own, but because once I finally beat it I will feel incredible, knowing I just beat one of, if not the toughest game made this generation. But I suppose it's a matter of opinion.
But without the risk & reward gameplay, what's the point of beating a game if you don't feel victorious?
There is no point to beating a video game. How much fun you have playing it is what matters. For a lot of people playing the same level over and over again until they memorize it isn't fun, it's frustrating.
Actually, there is point in beating a video game. The reason I continuously attempt to beat Demon's Souls isn't because it's the most fun game I own, but because once I finally beat it I will feel incredible, knowing I just beat one of, if not the toughest game made this generation. But I suppose it's a matter of opinion.
That's a personal reason for beating a video game, not a universal one. Gamesake's point is that not everyone feels that same compulsive need to beat a video game, and that, aside from personal achievement, there's no substantial reward for doing it.
Therefore if someone finds a game frustrating, then they're not missing out on anything if they don't finish the game.
At least, I think that's the point he was making :-/
Hm, good logic. "I haven't heard of it so it mustn't be popular!"
If you have walked into a board game shop in the past five or ten years, and had a proper look around, you would have seen these kinds of games:
Actually, I was speaking from my point of view as an ex-gaming geek/guru, I played Yu-Gi-Oh, Magic: The Gathering and UFC at a National level meaning I travelled from city to city & at loads of gaming conventions... in which I would look at, play and have access to all the latest games whether board, card or coin. I think I must have played Kings Blood about two years before launch?
Those games you showed there aren't mainstream games, they're very sub-cult games much like Munchkin and Blood Bowl... games that high level gamers would play between the actual games they play. Yes, they'll have awards up the wazoo but you'll almost never see them in a Toys R Us, Hamleys and even Walmarts (we call them Asda here in blighty). You'd need to find a specialist game store to buy them at... at which point you again come to the fact they are not very popular if you look at people in general. In fact some of them barely cover the print costs.
My "ninja girl" postings on swapnote are massively popular.. but then my audience is only 11 people.
EDIT: Oh and just incase you think I was only a TCG man, I was also massively into D&D, Cuthulu and BESM... though not many people played BESM.
Danté: Old, cool & wise (the latter two are lies)
3DS FC: 1461-6243-5395
Switch FC: SW-4146-5915-6308 "Friendship is rare, hand me that shotgun buddy, hand me that chair."
the 3rd World: Onion Beach.... Maybe if you were in control while it's in use it would be fun, but as it is i don't like using them.
Onion Ocean! But yeah actually there a few where you can actually control it. It's not a deal breaker but it's nice, lol.
Yeah comparing it to Epic Yarn is sort of unfair. But graphically RTDL is amazing. I love the graphics. Wait until you witness the later levels. you will be shocked!
Anyways, i think the most enjoyable thing about any traditional Kirby title would have to be finding the Switches. I just finished up Kirby's Adventure: 3D Classics and i had quite the blast with that one.....Which is funny, because the NES version to me was just 'decent'...It's amazing how '3D' can enhance the overall experience . But yup, the only real challenge lies in finding where those tricky switches are from time to time which is great considering Kirby as we all know isn't exactly one of the toughest franchises around.
I really want to play the 3D Classics of that game. It looks really Nutter Butter neat-o. I'm bad at that stuff! I loved 100%'ing RTDL because it was so... much fun backtracking through all those levels. So much fun. I found it funner than some Mario games.
But yeah we should get back on topic. Post your opinion ASAP on the topic on the forums. I wanna read it! Like a robo cop baddy or something.
Just for you. "I'm just a musical prostitute, my dear." - Freddie Mercury
Hm, good logic. "I haven't heard of it so it mustn't be popular!"
If you have walked into a board game shop in the past five or ten years, and had a proper look around, you would have seen these kinds of games:
Actually, I was speaking from my point of view as an ex-gaming geek/guru, I played Yu-Gi-Oh, Magic: The Gathering and UFC at a National level meaning I travelled from city to city & at loads of gaming conventions... in which I would look at, play and have access to all the latest games whether board, card or coin. I think I must have played Kings Blood about two years before launch?
Those games you showed there aren't mainstream games, they're very sub-cult games much like Munchkin and Blood Bowl... games that high level gamers would play between the actual games they play. Yes, they'll have awards up the wazoo but you'll almost never see them in a Toys R Us, Hamleys and even Walmarts (we call them Asda here in blighty). You'd need to find a specialist game store to buy them at... at which point you again come to the fact they are not very popular if you look at people in general. In fact some of them barely cover the print costs.
My "ninja girl" postings on swapnote are massively popular.. but then my audience is only 11 people.
EDIT: Oh and just incase you think I was only a TCG man, I was also massively into D&D, Cuthulu and BESM... though not many people played BESM.
You're talking about TCGs and RPGs there. Before you were talking about wargames. None of those are board games - I hate to state the obvious but you're talking about entirely different hobbies, that some people just happen to have overlapping interests in.
All the major board game publishers are producing Eurogames, and they're producing a lot of them. As I said, walk into a board game shop, and most of what you'll see on the shelves will be Eurogames.
That they're not available in mainstream shops is irrelevent to their popularity within the board game community. You can't get hardcore pornography in mainstream shops either, but that's a multi billion dollar industry.
There's a few publishers out there that make plenty good money from board games, and again, most of what they're producing are Eurogames. Rio Grande and Fantasy Flight, for instance.
Hm, good logic. "I haven't heard of it so it mustn't be popular!"
If you have walked into a board game shop in the past five or ten years, and had a proper look around, you would have seen these kinds of games:
Actually, I was speaking from my point of view as an ex-gaming geek/guru, I played Yu-Gi-Oh, Magic: The Gathering and UFC at a National level meaning I travelled from city to city & at loads of gaming conventions... in which I would look at, play and have access to all the latest games whether board, card or coin. I think I must have played Kings Blood about two years before launch?
Those games you showed there aren't mainstream games, they're very sub-cult games much like Munchkin and Blood Bowl... games that high level gamers would play between the actual games they play. Yes, they'll have awards up the wazoo but you'll almost never see them in a Toys R Us, Hamleys and even Walmarts (we call them Asda here in blighty). You'd need to find a specialist game store to buy them at... at which point you again come to the fact they are not very popular if you look at people in general. In fact some of them barely cover the print costs.
My "ninja girl" postings on swapnote are massively popular.. but then my audience is only 11 people.
EDIT: Oh and just incase you think I was only a TCG man, I was also massively into D&D, Cuthulu and BESM... though not many people played BESM.
Actually, those games are incredibly popular. The thing is, you have to consider that the market for board games is relatively small and stores such as Wal-Mart almost exclusively sell Monopoly, Candy Land, etc. which have been in print for years and years. They do rely on that popular following somewhat. Back to the point, the actual market for board games beyond the more younger focused audience is not found at stores like Wal-Mart. You actually have to go to hobby shops. Not that that means an exclusive hobby shop, but something along those lines. They aren't hard to find. Also, a lot of those (Catan especially) games are incredibly popular at universities (at least, here in Canada they are). These types of games are fairly easy to catch on to and aren't extremely competitive and actually make them easy to get into for those who aren't really into board games. Not that many people will sit around for a 2-4 hour game of Risk, but a lot more people will play a nice long game of Diplomat or something.
Sean Aaron ~ "The secret is out: I'm really an American cat-girl." Q: How many physicists does it take to change a light bulb? A: Two, one to hold the light bulb, the other to rotate the universe.
That they're not available in mainstream shops is irrelevent to their popularity within the board game community.
If you'd actually read my post rather than skimming it, you'd have noted I only mentioned the RP & card games to introduce the fact I'm well acquinted with the boardgame scene. You'd also note that I specifically said that something can be popular in a small group... but be meaningless to the rest of the world which was my point.
Ravage wrote:
The thing is, you have to consider that the market for board games is relatively small and stores such as Wal-Mart almost exclusively sell Monopoly, Candy Land, etc. which have been in print for years and years.
This was my point, yes they may be popular... but amongst a very small group. Whereas older more competitive games are still going strong. And don't think it's ONLY because they're well established, there have been several brand new competitive boardgames that HAVE made mainstream popularity such as Don't Laugh, The Logo Boardgame & Destination... Destination taking Hamley's coveted 2004's top selling game title.
Anyway - my post was not to knock them as I've played and enjoyed a few of them, but only point out that the post listing the games was written in a way that made them sound like they'd each joined Scrabble & Articulate on the shelves at Toys R Us... which as you agree Polka, is not the case.
Danté: Old, cool & wise (the latter two are lies)
3DS FC: 1461-6243-5395
Switch FC: SW-4146-5915-6308 "Friendship is rare, hand me that shotgun buddy, hand me that chair."
Golly, this thread has been picking up some steam and a splurge of slightly snark remarks. So let me just slip this into the thread to brighten you guys up (I hope you like it): [youtube:Dsg8JccRZCw]
Anyway, with my beliefs in equality and balance, a game should balance every aspect, not just difficulty. Plus, it doesn't seem fair to compare "good" and "bad" level design as though RPG's, platformers, and any other genre get an apples-to-apples comparison; I'd think that it varies in the context of a particular genre (people have different expectations of different genres).
So then dice and randomness aren't going the way of the dinosaurs?
I want a random dice game using dinosaurs NOW!!! :lol:
Danté: Old, cool & wise (the latter two are lies)
3DS FC: 1461-6243-5395
Switch FC: SW-4146-5915-6308 "Friendship is rare, hand me that shotgun buddy, hand me that chair."
BEST THREAD EVER future of NL >:3
[16:43] James: I should learn these site rules more clearly
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Danté: Rolls a three, a pteradactyl enters the valley and looks at him hungrilly. theblackdragon: Rolls a 2, a megalosaurus also enters the valley & looks at Danté hungrilly. Danté: Rolls a 5, the pteradactyl starts to canter towards theblackdragon. theblackdragon: Rolls a 6, CRITICAL! theblackdragon pours barbeque sauce on Danté, paints a sign saying "nomnomnom" and make him wear a submarine roll as a hat. Danté: Rolls a 1, Danté releases some special sauce as the dinosaurs race towards him.
Danté: Old, cool & wise (the latter two are lies)
3DS FC: 1461-6243-5395
Switch FC: SW-4146-5915-6308 "Friendship is rare, hand me that shotgun buddy, hand me that chair."
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