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Topic: The Nintendo Switch Thread

Posts 35,561 to 35,580 of 37,057

Ryu_Niiyama

@NEStalgia I have always agreed with sunshine and klaus. The issue isn’t were they right (cuz they were) but can’t they bear the weight of doing what fate the universe whatever is really slow to do. For both the answer was no. Which is why as well intentioned “extremists” they are were good people.

Malos didn’t care, he did because that was his directive and for jin (but that is still him pantomiming someone else’s pain; taking it to a logical extreme...hmm logos). For klaus and sunshine their actions hurt and haunted them because they did care. It is possible to do what they did and feel the weight of it. And they both did. Sunshine eventually dug in his heels to deal and Klaus gave up. Anybody got an apple of eden handy? Can we set it to lemming?

Also part of that is due diligence. If the report had been right and they didn’t go we would complain about police not doing their jobs. And there is enough of that normally. As For making life miserable for people you don’t like that’s normal. That’s why I always laugh when people think that words are what make people mad. No it is the intent and social acceptance of that intent. If you can dehumanize someone with no censure then often society allows you to treat someone less than human and since human disdain and hatred comes in so many forms you get to bleed someone out slowly and then go home and sleep at night guilt free. That is why we still have to explain racism and clasism and sexism to people. Because they make it small in their minds (those that even rationalize that is, most people are just legit evil and only present a veneer of civility. ) what they do to other, but of course they freak out if you call them out on it.

So yeah if I didn’t love Morag so much I would love to have played a game where sunshine won.

Edited on by Ryu_Niiyama

Taiko is good for the soul. Let the drums fill you with FIRE! Hoisa!
Japanese NNID:RyuNiiyamajp
Team Cupcake! 11/15/14 I'm a Dream Fighter. Perfume is Love, Perfume is Life.

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FaeKnight

Doing evil for a just cause is still doing evil. Even as early in the game as I am, already they are clearly villains. Mass murder in the goal of peace is not the right path to take. Nor does it encourage peace.

FaeKnight

Switch Friend Code: SW-6813-5901-0801 | Twitter:

Ryu_Niiyama

@FaeKnight That assumes that people are left to protest. Besides the point isn’t peace because peace as humans know it are pauses between wars and even then people wage war on others socially, emotionally, and psychologically.

The point is either humanity becomes better or humanity is destroyed because it is irredeemable. You see both paths attempt to be taken. While the heroes answer is essentially the power of friendship which is meaningless and still has to be backed up by a weapon of mass destruction. Aww geez this reminded me why Rex is a useless “The Dragon “ again. Still you are just getting started and I would rather not spoil the game for you.

Taiko is good for the soul. Let the drums fill you with FIRE! Hoisa!
Japanese NNID:RyuNiiyamajp
Team Cupcake! 11/15/14 I'm a Dream Fighter. Perfume is Love, Perfume is Life.

3DS Friend Code: 3737-9849-8413 | Nintendo Network ID: RyuNiiyama

EvilLucario

Who the hell even is "Sunshine"? And Rex isn't The Dragon and isn't useless since he picked up the slack from Addam's failure.

Metroid, Xenoblade, EarthBound shill

I run a YouTube/Twitch channel for fun. Check me out if you want to!

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FaeKnight

I've read plenty of books, watched movies and tv shows, and other played games with similar themes.

FaeKnight

Switch Friend Code: SW-6813-5901-0801 | Twitter:

NEStalgia

@FaeKnight something seriously must be going on beyond winning an mk8 match. This guy went through extreme lengths for this as though pre planned. I mean if it were done heated r6 siege or cod match with insults hurled etc maybe someone freaked out. But winning one mk8 match led to being targeted with a sophisticated and risky attack? There has got to be more to it. Mk8 implies an almost random Target. And while "simple" most people couldn't locate, Target, and spoof calls to police to a specific distant dispatch nor have the knowledge or desire the risk of doing so. That's not the average script kiddie. What are the odds of randomly playing an mk match that happens to be populated by someone who presumably has done this before, who is looking for victims and intend to randomly pick a Target if they win? I can't help but think this is someone you have some other history with via some other game or forum or something.

As for "peace", 5000 years of human history indicates such fantasy does not exist. Humans have always thrived in causing misery. We're a race of apex predators that have run out of prey beyond each other. The peaceful are preyed upon for the benefit of the predators. The predators thrive. To ensure peace is to smite the predators... Meaning to become a predator. Which reminds me of one of the wiser hitler quotes. For all his evils, he was a keen observer of real politik. "The greatest strength of the totalitarian state is that those that fear it must emulate it". Taken to a broader context than political systems it's rather accurate. To seek peace one must defeat the aggressors, thus becoming an aggressor, thus abandoning the original goal.

The idea, imo, in Xenoblade2 is that they're are no villains, which is an incredibly deep and realistic story. The villains are all good people, aren't actually wrong, and though the actual acts may be evil, their reasoning isn't. Much like most real world villains. Even the above mentioned hitler wasnt setting out to be evil. In his mind he was saving the world from degenerates, Communists, and anyone that threatened the ideal world he imagined existing. The Xenoblade villains otoh are the opposite of that. I can't say more since you haven't played yet and while it's not much spoiler i wouldn't want to ruin even concept. But there really aren't true villains. There's no evil force. There's opponents, conflict, philosophical division. But no villainy. Which makes the oponents more interesting. You know you need to stop them and yet you know they're right, too. Like many real world villains i suppose.

@ryu_niiyama if it were square, we'd get dlc in 2 years letting us play sunshine and win . Id pay retail price.

As for police inaction, if we're down to having to fear random police invasion based on anonymous tips from any random person of the 1 billion people worldwide on the internet that may not like us ir may be bored, maybe were better off with the criminals and a posse. Police aren't very useful if they're the unwitting puppets of the criminals anyway. If the electronic age means they can't tell if they're helping the citizens ir are the weapon of the criminals is there much difference?

Edited on by NEStalgia

NEStalgia

Cobalt

New footage of Travis Strikes Again... It starts at 12:45 mn...

What a shame !

Edited on by Cobalt

Cobalt

Therad

Octane wrote:

@Therad World building in Star Fox? You clearly don't know the Nintendo way, it's needs a new way to control, and another reboot preferably. Why reinvent the story when the original is just as good?

Maybe we can save a princess in the next one, that would be fresh!

Overall I would like Nintendo to add a smidge of story in some of their games or even better, a more cohesive world. It sometimes feel like they think they can't have both story and gameplay.

Edited on by Therad

Therad

dourfram

@Cobalt So Sony marketers are now doing a smear campaign against a japanese niche game? We must boycott japanese games on PS4 until Sony stop with their toxic policy that is destroying the japanese industry.

dourfram

Cobalt

Dunno if there are Frenchies here...
Just to inform them that they're gonna get the UK version if they have preordered the French Dark Souls Remaster version on Amazon. :/

Untitled

Cobalt

Azooooz

@HobbitGamer THAT CREEPY AVATAR, OMG!!!

@FaeKnight Sorry to hear that this happened to you. I hope they catch that troll, put him in jail and get your compensation.

Making promise is easy. The hard part is keeping it.

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NEStalgia

@Ryu_Niiyama "That’s why I always laugh when people think that words are what make people mad. No it is the intent and social acceptance of that intent. If you can dehumanize someone with no censure then often society allows you to treat someone less than human and since human disdain and hatred comes in so many forms you get to bleed someone out slowly and then go home and sleep at night guilt free. That is why we still have to explain racism and clasism and sexism to people. Because they make it small in their minds (those that even rationalize that is, most people are just legit evil and only present a veneer of civility. )"

All very true, except then the people that "explain racism, classism and sexism to people" have now become their own platform of hatred using that as an excucse to simply legitimize their own hatreds and grudges.

Which all comes back to "sunshines" whole point.

Screw it, I'm throwing Rex into an abyss. He has it coming. He's lovable but his "power of friendship" "flower power" "make love with half naked blades, not war" or whatever it is is too naive to be allowed to interfere with "sunshine"'s wise and necessary plans. Pyra can go shack up with Malos. He's not really such a bad guy. Brutish but beneath it all he's a decent guy in his own special way.

(Edit: Getting a ton of 503 Backend Fetch Failed errors on NL these days....)

Edited on by NEStalgia

NEStalgia

FaeKnight

Story wise in XC2 I'm very early. I just rescued the little girl and her white tiger blade (can't think of their names off hand). But even at this point it's obvious that the idea of "There's no actual villains, just differing goals" is kind of wrong. Torna are a known terrorist group that literally paid off the head of the trade guild place and planned on killing everyone hired to help them salvage a ship. Heck, they specifically wanted someone from one area and planned on killing them rather then paying them for services rendered. Obviously that was a bridge too far for the girl since she decides to help you out. Not the actions of good people.

The head of the trade town is a villain of the lowest caliber. He hired his men out knowing the plan was to kill them. And took an expensive insurance policy out on the vessel that would be used so he could cash in doubly. Then got angry that the ship wasn't destroyed and the crew had their lives saved. Why? Because he 'might' have to give a refund to known terrorists. Then starts planning to kill Rex and his friends and capturing the blade for himself. Again, not the hands of a good person. But it is the actions of an amoral nutjob.

So far the game feels like it's saying "These are the villains, but I want you to like them because they're not bad people even though they are bad people".

FaeKnight

Switch Friend Code: SW-6813-5901-0801 | Twitter:

EvilLucario

@FaeKnight Hell no, by that point you're supposed to hate them because of what they're doing. Just keep playing to see what they mean.

Metroid, Xenoblade, EarthBound shill

I run a YouTube/Twitch channel for fun. Check me out if you want to!

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FaeKnight

I haven't progressed the story yet cause I'd been sidetracked doing side missions in the first two towns and playing Tiger Tiger to upgrade Poppei That game is surprisingly hard.

FaeKnight

Switch Friend Code: SW-6813-5901-0801 | Twitter:

Ryu_Niiyama

@NEStalgia mixed agreement here. For one people hijack minority causes all the time or they get conflated to increase numbers only to fall into discord once you realize that aside from a few surface common issues that your struggles are different. Mainly because most people that are oppressed/discriminated against don’t have one area only they are oppressed in. It bleeds and poisons other aspects of life. (Of course that actually works on both sides. I’ve seen racists band together against minorities only to use classism to turn on each other later.) Outside of hijacking and and ultimately incompatible struggles I do think that people are entitled to their anger. We have this odd standard that if you are oppressed you have to come with meek supplication to be treated fairly. And any gains you make you should be so grateful that you ignore existing issues. Which is insulting quite frankly. “Oh hey we will still do messed up things but we don’t do those messed up things why aren’t you happy? Why don’t you think we are great? “ That being said I am not saying pick up your swords and turn the streets red but I find it interesting that people aren’t expected/allowed to be angry about being mistreated.

As for xenoblade I would argue that Malos is the villian. Somewhat unwittingly but he claimed his independence and didn’t consider anything else. While almost every blade but him seemed to grow or analyze their stance on things. Even if it meant digging in.

Personally I would have let humans self destruct. We are really good at turning on each other. After him Rex was pretty much the same start to finish. Even his courage moment was just him returning to form with more power of friendship. Geez i wish he had been the blade. So trite, at least then he would have made an impact on his own.

I would partially argue klaus as a villian if only because he decided that meddling was bad but his answer was to meddle again and then let the chips fall where they would. I mean he is a deadbeat creator. If nothing else he had the unique position to be a guiding force for humanity but instead he merely created a cycle that couldn’t be broken. Unless someone knew how to destroy the cloud sea (which makes everybody’s plans including pyra’s a little useless in hindsight ) because the world has a failsafe now. But like I said he gave up out of guilt. When I think he either should have let his experiment stand or taken responsibility for his new experiment. But then again the plight of the blades make me wish he hadn’t bothered. Its angels vs humans all over again. One side is powered but shackled and the other is weak and cruel but gets to do whatever they want. And if you don’t like that status quo you are “evil” but evil Is often treated as relative than absolute. Gormott was subjugated. That’s why i love that the naming conventions of many of the titans are the seven deadly sins.

Edited on by Ryu_Niiyama

Taiko is good for the soul. Let the drums fill you with FIRE! Hoisa!
Japanese NNID:RyuNiiyamajp
Team Cupcake! 11/15/14 I'm a Dream Fighter. Perfume is Love, Perfume is Life.

3DS Friend Code: 3737-9849-8413 | Nintendo Network ID: RyuNiiyama

HobbitGamer

"We have this odd standard that if you are oppressed you have to come with meek supplication to be treated fairly." I'm not aware of that standard existing at all
@Azooooz Haha, glad my Halloween avatar is doing its magic

HobbitGamer

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link3710

@FaeKnight I'm only a few chapters ahead of you, but it seems like characters that have been introduced since that point aren't so cut and dry, at least to me. Though I agree with what you've said on the early game characters, there's one in particular who's been introduced that's far more intriguing as a villain.

link3710

Anti-Matter

@FaeKnight
Not every JRPG games have to have a Villain with Psychotic attitudes.
If you have ever played Fantasy Life 3DS, there was NO Villains at all. The "Bad guys" in the games were just like misunderstanding. They were nice peoples actually when you get into their relationship.

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NEStalgia

@FaeKnight Yeah that's early. Right now you're just learning the who and where but not the what. It feels like a one dimensional anime story at that point. But it's Xenoblade. If you played XC1 you know nothing stays that simple for long The characters are very multidimensional. I mean the whole Torna prequel expansion pack focuses exclusively on the Torna group as a full RPG all of its own. In a way the game is their story even more than Rex's. It's very contemplative

@Ryu_Niiyama I don't disagree with that, but too often every special group like that ends up just being their own platform of hating the enemy. As with most well intentioned things it typically backfires and becomes the exact thing it stands against, only it becomes "ok" because "we're the good guys, and they're not." And that in turn fuels the "enemies" on to double down on their original stance, having been proven "right". The viscous circle. Again going back to sunshine being right.

I disagree about Malos though. Actually playing the expansion makes me really appreciate the subtleties of his character development and arc, from where he started to even where he begins at the start of XC2. They never hit you over the head with it. And his brutish nature makes it hard to notice. But it's there. And by the end game you learn what his own motivations are and what he cares about more than just being a pawn or a villain. He does have his own motivations and things he holds as important. He simply applies a cold binary logic to everything as is his nature. He's not ignoble. He's just harder to relate to as a face of sheer power. At the start of the prequel before he developed, yeah he was a pure villain. But by the time XC2 starts he had already developed a lot as a character....you don't realize that until you see how he started in the prequel. But it's not until the very end of XC2 that I think it becomes clear what his motivations and views have really been. He's underexposed but not necessarily underdeveloped. I still say, he's not really a villain. Like everyone in the game, he's more complex than that. An antagonist, an opponent, but not really a villain. More like a force of nature. A hurricane is neither good nor evil. It simply exists. IMO he's much like that. And reconciling that is one of his primary motivations. He's not entirely comfortable with his own nature which itself gives him tremendous depth and integrity.

Klaus....I think of as an ex-villain. In his heyday he was arrogant, selfish, and presumptuous, and that's what lead to where things are. He did what he did, also arrogantly maybe, but to try to do penance for his sin. Then just kind of gave up. Now he's just weary and broken and sad at all his hubris and what it did. Perhaps the "villain" part of him, the worst of his character got sucked into the other world we all know so well. A villain there, still in the extreme - entirely self serving. But here....he's just broken and dismayed. Not much of a villain, more of a former villain that now simply watches what happened with regret. Reformed, helpless former villain?

Edited on by NEStalgia

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