@Grumblevolcano : XC2 was only about 13GB or thereabouts (I'm not sure how big the DLC and aoftware updates are), so it wouldn't surprise me if the inevitable XCX port can be squeezed onto a 16GB card, though I would prefer for Nintendo to keep the high quality textures/audio and language options on the cartridge in full and lead the way in releasing a 32GB cart game themselves... if it is necessary to do so. I am really detesting the practice of excising alternate language options and making them downloadable either by ridiculously large mandatory updates or as "free DLC". They should either include it on the cartridge or release separate cartridges like the old days. We shouldn't have to be wasting precious gigs on data that should have been on the cartridge in the first place.
On the topic of the blandness of 2D platformers, I'm feeling quite burned out by Kirby Star Allies. I am near the end of World 4 and I have been taking my time in unlocking all of the extra stages and collecting the rainbow puzzle pieces before challenging the final boss, but the level design has generally been extremely predictable and the game lacks a novelty or motif to distinguish itself from past entries in the series. It feels very much like a by-the-numbers game (more Triple Deluxe than Planet Robobot), which is unfortunate. There is still fun to be had, but I'm finding myself feeling disclined to press on further just as I'm reaching the end, ironically enough.
@Bolt_Strike@StuTwo Ultimately a platformer is a form of time trial. Clear all hurdles successfully and cross the finish line before the timer runs out, or simply clear all hurdles and cross the finish line (possibly with collectibles.) If you add complexity to that. "Abilities", and what not, you're changing the genre into "puzzle platformer" or "2D action game" or such. To actually be a platformer it really HAS to be kept to a fairly narrow scope of simple controls and intricate level design without much obstruction beyond. DKCTF is one of the very few true platforms, and keeps to that ethos sublimely.
In that sense platforms are like racing games. What does Forza 7 do that Forza did not do? What does GT: Sport do that GT did not do? It looks prettier, the controls are more accurate, with more accurate physics, responses, more accurate AI racing (or for GT Sport, racing, only, against humans and never AIs)...refinements of how to do the same thing more accurately to intent. Nothing is fundamentally changed, because it shouldn't be, otherwise it would be an arcade racer. Platforms are similar. Change anything about fundamentals and it's a different genre.
It’s often easier to go off in a completely different direction and become a new genre than to break new ground within the confines of an existing one because that requires much better execution. TF is flawlessly executed with a clear set of design goals and we should celebrate that rather than complain that it’s just running and jumping like in hundreds of other 2d platormers since the 80s.
DKC TF indeed had a hard time on Wii U because the system had quite a bunch of outstanding platformers. As much as I like DKC TF, out of the 7 amazing retail platformers I have on Wii U it's only in 5th place.
1. Super Mario Maker (online sharing level editor, endless replayability, one of the best games ever)
2. Super Mario 3D World (first and only 3D Mario with up to 4 players - best multiplayer 3D Mario game)
3. New Super Mario Bros. U (first 2D Mario with up to 5 players - best multiplayer 2D Mario game)
4. Yoshi's Woolly World (the greatest Yoshi game since Yoshi's Island, with 2p co-op)
5. Donkey Kong Country: Tropical Freeze (2 players, much better than DKC Returns)
6. Rayman Legends (5 players, ultimate 2D Rayman game)
7. New Super Luigi U (5 players, nice expansion for NSMBU experts)
My rankings of those are:
1. Super Mario Maker
2. DKC Tropical Freeze
3. Yoshi's Woolly World
4. Super Mario 3D World
5. New Super Mario Bros U + New Super Luigi U
6. Rayman Legends
Looks like there is a separation between Funky Mode time trials, and Normal Mode time trials. Which is good.
1-1 top 10 in Funky Mode is all Funky Kong, while it's all Cranky in normal mode. I'm so glad they didn't cheap out and mix the two together.
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@StuTwo@NEStalgia Elitism and retro purism at its finest. The idea that a platformer has to be a glorified time trial and can't involve puzzle elements to be a "true" platformer is extremely narrow minded and will very well hurt if not outright kill the genre if that's the way they choose to develop it. We're in an era where different gamers have a variety of different tastes in gaming so the highest selling games are going to need to have a sense of flexibility in their gameplay. Rigidly sticking to a philosophy that platformers can only be time trials is practically limiting your audience to 80's/90's gamers who grew up with consoles like the NES and SNES, and as those gamers grow older and start to leave the market, there's going to be less people to drive sales of that kind of game when other gamers aren't really as interested and want something more or different out of their platformers.
Going forward, the best approach for the platforming genre is going to be a style where you have a sense of forward progression but you also have the opportunity to wander around, explore, solve puzzles, and use your skills to come up with creative ways to navigate the environment. Time trial gameplay should definitely be an element to this as well, but that strikes me more as something to increase replay value and provide an optional challenge rather than the end all be all of the game. Once you've started to master the game's mechanics, then you can go back and use them to figure out how to get through the level as efficiently as possible.
@Bolt_Strike no, your describing two genres and arguing that one shouldn't exist because it's old. They are two genres. They speak to those different tastes you describe. If you don't like platformers as a genre that's fine, but that doesn't mean they can't exist because you like other similar genres more. Puzzle platformers existed in the 80s too. There's nothing new in that genre any more than there is is vanilla platformers. Both have evolved rather than revolutionized. If indie retro 8 bit dpad controlled platformers were all that existed if the genre today you'd have a point. But in an era of dkctf, Rayman legends, etc, it's a small genre but still a successful one. Meanwhile wooly world, unravel, lbp etc provide for modern puzzle platform experience. Both genres are old. Both genres are still selling.
@NEStalgia They're not separate genres. At best they're subgenres, but puzzle platformers are not considered an entirely separate genre. The platforming genre has been defined by running and jumping, which a puzzle platformer also satisfies.
Even if you do separate things like that, it still doesn't really reflect any better on the state of the "true" platformers. Revolution, evolution, call it whatever you like. Those "true" platformers have done none of that, they've been relatively stagnant for 20 years.
And keeping them both separate doesn't really solve anything. They'll just end up cannibalizing each other. Individual games need to provide this kind of flexibility and variety, not different subgenres. Honestly, I'd go as far to say that the concept of a genre may becoming obsolete. You look at most console games today and they have a wide variety of gameplay elements at work, elements of exploration, combat, RPG mechanics, sometimes the occasional racing and mini games. At this point it should be less "what arbitrary classification should we shoehorn this game into" and more "what makes sense for this game's core concept". Trying to keep the platforming genre locked into a certain framework is just limiting its creativity, appeal, and sales.
I am failing terribly at lvl 1-4 Trunk Twister to collect the second puzzle piece. You are supposed to bounce off two enemies with the cart. I have tried everything and I just can't figure out how I have to time pressing the jump button to create enough height. Just before, exactly when or directly after touching the enemy? I would say it's exactly when, which usually makes me jump on the second birdie but never do I manage to jump off of him to reach the floating puzzle piece...
Edit: Nevermind. It was Bluetooth-Lag. Quite easy in handheld mode. I was wondering why sometimes I wasn't able to roll...
@StuTwo@NEStalgia Elitism and retro purism at its finest. The idea that a platformer has to be a glorified time trial and can't involve puzzle elements to be a "true" platformer is extremely narrow minded and will very well hurt if not outright kill the genre if that's the way they choose to develop it. We're in an era where different gamers have a variety of different tastes in gaming so the highest selling games are going to need to have a sense of flexibility in their gameplay. Rigidly sticking to a philosophy that platformers can only be time trials is practically limiting your audience to 80's/90's gamers who grew up with consoles like the NES and SNES, and as those gamers grow older and start to leave the market, there's going to be less people to drive sales of that kind of game when other gamers aren't really as interested and want something more or different out of their platformers.
Going forward, the best approach for the platforming genre is going to be a style where you have a sense of forward progression but you also have the opportunity to wander around, explore, solve puzzles, and use your skills to come up with creative ways to navigate the environment. Time trial gameplay should definitely be an element to this as well, but that strikes me more as something to increase replay value and provide an optional challenge rather than the end all be all of the game. Once you've started to master the game's mechanics, then you can go back and use them to figure out how to get through the level as efficiently as possible.
I’m sorry but I think you’re wrong on many counts.
The platformer genre is very diverse but different people want different things from it. I love Metroidvanias (which are non linear puzzle platformers) but I don’t want every platformer to be a Metroidvania.
I want a DKC game to be a straightforward rollercoaster ride offering spectacle and invention in its level design and very simple controls. I want it to test my twitch skills and that works best when the game only uses one or two buttons and doesn’t add unnecessary power up gimmicks.
As for sales - DKCR for Wii sold 6.5 million. It was a huge hit by Nintendo standards. Clearly there is a very receptive modern audience for these games as they are.
I also think you’re taking the games on a very superficial level saying “nothing has changed in 20 years”. They have - it’s just in more subtle ways. The modern games offer a greater variety of optional challenge/reward tiers than games in the 90s typically did for a start. It’s not a NES style race through to the end before you lose your lives and that is a huge change from a game design perspective.
I'm definitely not into this idea that the platforming genre is so resource-starved that we need to hold a solemn council to decide which direction it moves forward using the fumes left in the tank.
There are still loads of platformers being made by studios big and small alike. The result is a huge variety of styles and sizes, which in turn have broad appeal to many different audiences.
Personally speaking, I've never sat down with a Kirby game and thought, "this is something I want to spend an extended period of time doing". But neither do I want every Kirby game to be replaced with some hyper-technical Celeste clone, despite loving that game. In fact, it'd probably give me a heart attack. They can simply both release and I'll buy the one I'm more interested in.
It's admittedly a pretty bland 'live and let live' position, but in view of the abundant resources available for platformers, it seems the only sensible one worth taking. If we were completing over platforming scraps, or talking about the future of a single series, then there's cause for debate; there's a reason why the whole 'should Zelda stay open world' question is so contested - because the release of a new Zelda game is a relatively rare event and that will define the series for years to come.
But platformers as a genre? Let them come in all their shapes and sizes! Let the elitist, retro-purist games frolick happily alongside the soft and squishy collectathons, and the Metroidvanias mingle with the Meatboys. Let Celeste bring sweat to the brow of every speed-runner, and Kirby charm the socks off every little Timmy and Jemima. Live and let live, and let die under every death mechanic known to man. Keep making all sorts of different games, game makers - just let them be good!
More seriously I agree. The genre is still breaking new ground and going off into interesting new directions. It’s also still very commercially successful as a genre even if it’s not the only game in town as it was in 1990.
The only discussion to be had is the development of 2d platformers with big development budgets (like DKCTF) and what format they should take.
I didn't owned a WiiU, so it's my first time with the game. I'm playing in classic mode and I find the dificulty just at the right point. Not even near to easy, but not crazy dificult...
I would sugest you to try classic, and move to Funky if you can't pass the first stages...
My local Wal-Mart didn't stock South Park, so I came home with this this afternoon.
The attention to detail in the environments is pretty astounding (and the eShop screens don't do the game justice). I'm not the biggest DKC fan, but I played through the original as a kid & hearing all the remixed music tracks on offer here has really brought a smile to my face. Anyhow, I'm playing in original mode, and have played through the first few levels (so far only one section in 1-A has really given me trouble, but I managed it over a few tries).
Currently Playing:
Switch - Blade Strangers
PS4 - Kingdom Hearts III, Tetris Effect (VR)
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