Topic: Everything DC (Movies, Games, Comics, etc...)

Hearing all the negative reviews, from people that read comics mind you, really disheartens me.
To hear that Zack Snyder has reduced Superman to a humanoid wrecking ball, and Batman into Punisher-Lite, really makes me wonder if Zack Snyder even knows what Superman and Batman are supposed to represent.

I think it's far worse that he's made a mind numbingly dull film than tweaking Bats and Supes, I can understand changes in Man Of Steel and Watchmen as it's for the end result of making a better film but this wasnlt the case so you end up with both a rubbish film and rubbish characters.

It's so disappointing to see how this movie turned out. Snyder and co. had 1 and a half years to edit the heck out of this movie and yet the editing for this movie was horrific at times. They crammed too many ideas into the movie, and it suffered as a result.

^I don't think the editing is that bad, it seems to me he was trying to make the short scenes be like panels on a comic. It's just very dull that's the problem, even the action scenes weren't that memorable.

@arronishere: It just felt very choppy at certain points of the movie, especially the scenes after Bruce's POV of the Superman vs Zod fight.

Yes I realize that Man of Steel came first, but this was the building block for the group films to come.
I just got back from it. Critics are right. It was bad. Man of Steel was way better and I didn't even really like Man of Steel that much.
It was such a mess! There was a part of the last 1/4 of the film that was good. So unfortunately the only good thing about the 2 hour and 30 plus movie was a few action scenes. When you can't tell a good story, your movie will fail.
(Spoilers)
Batman not only shooting guns, but shooting and killing people with guns, just about made me vomit and/or get up and leave from my seat.
Pardon my french, but what in the actual f**k was the director thinking!?????? So many flaws with the movie that I could take up multiple pages of this forum on mine own.
What a joke of a film. So sad that this is supposed to be what future DC movies are building off of. God save us all. #firesynder

@arronishere Yes. The editing is awful. God awful!!!!! The first half hour of the movie is the best example of this. Litterally the first half hour just feels like a bunch of random scenes randomly strung together. You get the feeling that the movie is just standing in one spot and is not moving at all. Which goes hand in hand with the pacing. I am so furious. With all the time and money they had to make this movie,.... WHAT WERE THEY THINKING!??? Who approved of this as it went along. Guess what? No surprise, I heard Ben Affleck tried to guide Snyder and gave him certain ideas, but apparently he could only do so much. I'm sure it was the few scenes that actually seemed like a cohesive movie. So not only did Affleck save the movie from a total desaster by being in the movie, he also litterally saved the movie from being a total piece of garbage, by trying to help behind the scenes.

I'm with the consensus here. As a DC fan and someone who works in film, I've got to say that movie was an absolute train wreck.

Right off the bat, Zack Snyder's complete misunderstanding of the character of Superman and his hard-on for his also grossly misinterpreted Batman (you know it's bad when a lifelong Bats fan is upset by how terribly this film treats Supes) destroys the foundation of the flick; you cannot build narrative stakes by tearing down a character that you've never let the audience invest in — Superman finally just decided to be Superman at the ass-end of Man of Steel, and we haven't seen him do much good, so we don't care much about Snyder's character assassination (except as critics, from which standpoint we recognize it's an awful idea).

That's issue number one of 2,437. Let's do the rest stream-of-consciousness style.

You can't build dramatic stakes when your entire film is constantly cranked to 120%, whether it's a scene of earth-shattering destruction or someone walking. This is the most baroque movie I've ever seen. The editing has no pace or sense of place. The title fight has the exact same issue as the sole reason why Batman apparently hates Superman, but it's cool bros, because there are seven lines of expository dialogue that magically explain that away ("Good thing it's after 5 p.m., so the entire downtown district is abandoned! Because that's how major cities that are clearly New York equivalents work."). The fight in question is arranged by Lex Luthor, a jar of piss, a half-Michael Shannon/half-twitchy, psychotic Mark Zuckerberg clone and a kidnapping plot, because Lex wants Superman and Batman to fight for no reason that is ever explained (because comparing Superman to God ad nauseam is better than actual motivation). There is no conversation in this movie; every line of dialogue is a quip, a bit of exposition, or an overt statement of hilariously overwrought themes. The Justice League foreshadowing is tied to the narrative in no way, shape or form, instead acting as purely cynical advertising (complete with over-the-top Dr. Pepper product placement) that gives not a single care about the movie's already nonexistent pace or already disjointed narrative. Superman and Batman's seminal relationship is formed because their moms have the same name, which sounds like an idea a seven year-old would come up with. Everything was a dream sequence. The film never once trusts the audience to understand what's happening, choosing instead to broadcast everything to the nth degree ("I'm Lex Luthor, Jr., and my company was founded by my dad, Lex Luthor, Sr. I am Lex Luthor's son. Lex Luthor was my father.").

And you know what? The death of Superman might've been a bold choice that actually worked, had we ever actually cared about Superman rather than positioning him as a villain directly after his introductory movie.

Instead, it dooms the first Justice League movie to basically be "The Search for Spock" — so we can look forward to sitting through another three hours of "Not the Justice League" as the script struggles to resurrect Superman while the rest of the movie advertises "Justice League 2," where (maybe, potentially, eventually, if we're good boys and girls and keep giving Warner Bros. our money), we'll actually get to see the Justice League do stuff together (in an insanely bleak, constantly desaturated, mostly CGI world that we don't care about).

I could go on, but I won't.

The whole thing feels like it was written by a frat boy who just discovered Nietzche and is trying to use it to get laid. Still, it's best $16 I've spent in a long time, only for it's fascinating terribleness. I wish I'd brought a notepad.

I still disagree with the editing is the biggest problem of the film as to me it's one of the few things that work for it as it does evoke the scense of reading panels of a comic, you can make the scenes longer or group them together differently but you will still have the same problem of no personality, no meat to the plot, character development or something different going to break up the up the non-stop exposition.

I coughed up £17 (almost $25) to see this on an IMAX screen and in 3D.

All I kept thinking after seeing Batman v Superman is the fact that I could have paid half that amount, £8.50, to see Zootopia or Kung Fu Panda 3 or Hail, Caesar! or April and the Extraordinary World.

Even the not-so-enjoyable Marvel films such as Daredevil, Elektra, Fantastic Four and Ghost Rider were worth watching more so than this (yes, I do know that Batman v Superman is a DC comic film).

It's also the first film since the second Transformers film ('something' of the Fallen?) that I genuinely felt like walking out from.

Where's the fun? Why is everything so grim, dark and foreboding? Why doesn't Zack Snyder follow the simple but effective story of The Dark Knight Returns? Worse still, how was the whole premise given the 'go ahead' in the first place?

And Lex Luther was AWFUL!

It is also half an hour too long too. This needed a LOT of extra time in the editing room, even at the expense of cutting the 'story' to pieces.

The only two positives I can think of are:

a) Ben Affleck did a fantastic job portraying an older and wearisome Batman, given the 'material' he had to work with.
b) Wonder Woman was the sole element that brought a little bit of light to a comically dark film.

I don't always agree with the general (critics) reviews however, this is a case of being absolutely spot on. Terrible movie all round.

Why are people so keen on blaming Snyder for this? The two major complaints seem to be the editing and the lack of character depth which comes from the script rather than directing, Goyer's track record has never been great but he seems to get a pass for his credit on Nolan's Batman.

@arronishere: I thought he did a great job with Watchmen, given how 'unfilmable' the original material is.

But what else has he done that isn't instantly forgettable?

I do not necessarily 'blame' Snyder however, he is the director and has been the films biggest spokesperson at all these comic book conventions in the past two years. He gave those fans a lot of hope and expectations.

I personally believe it's a mixture of everything that made this film the way it is.

@VelvetElvis: I agree. I am a huge Batman fan and actually don't care for Superman much at all and I was disgusted with how Superman was treated. I am convinced that Synder and/or Goyer hate Superman, but also don't seem fond of Batman, considering they butchered him too.
I seriously need a mind wipe. I am never going to get the image out of my head of Batman mowing people down with a gun...... WHY!!??????

@arronishere, I don't think the editing was the film's biggest issue, but it was an issue for me (and an issue for the professional editor I saw the film with). I can see where you're coming from (Ang Lee did a similar thing to mixed results in his Hulk), but there were cuts that blatantly disregarded pace and sense of place. Like when, smack dab in the middle of building up the fight that defines the film, we cut to a Justice League commercial (that's not tied to the narrative at all). Or when Perry wonders if Clark "clicks his heels and disappears to Kansas," and we cut to...not Kansas, but Superman elsewhere doing nothing for a second for no reason. I do agree wholeheartedly with the rest of your complaints, though.

And I would posit that Snyder takes the blame because he's running the show; studio films usually adhere to the auteur theory — it's completely within his power (and responsibility) to recognize those weak points in the script and the edit and do something about them, or prevent them in the first place. And he's been quite public about being a part of the writing process, not to mention he is the person Warner Bros. has trusted with laying the foundations for their cinematic universe, and he's done so in a spectacularly awful fashion.

@HawkeyeWii, yep, I'm right there with you. Snyder and Goyer seem so ready to position Superman as a villain (or a wet blanket, freshman-level self-pleasuring philosopher) before a hero. Given the Knightmare sequence, I wouldn't be surprised to see Supes play an antagonizing role in Justice League. It's a huge shame really — I hate to think of this generation's kids being introduced to Superman and Batman in this nihilistic, joyless, cynical way.

@HawkeyeWii: I would have been fine with Batman mowing people down IF we were given a solid and good reason behind his action. Like Jason Todd being killed by Joker, or something to that affect. But in the end we got a Batman who's willing to take the lives of people without a second thought about it. Which is a darn shame because I thought Ben Affleck was killing it as Batman, pun not intended.

It looks like a Robin was killed by the Joker in the movie's backstory, theres a scene where Batfleck walked past an old Robin suit covered in graffiti saying 'HA HA HA' and something else on it.

@arronishere: That's most likely the reason why he started killing, and I wouldn't have a problem with that if they had just addressed it in the movie. I hope they address it in the Ultimate Edition, especially since we're getting an extra 30 minutes of footage.

^Imo adding even more exposition sounds like the worst possible thing to do this film, the empty narrative is what really makes this un-watchable.

Exactly! And it's not like they didn't have over 2 hours to explain any of that important information. Although in my opinion, I don't think Bruce would ever just blatantly kill, no matter who has died in his life. I think the worst kill in the movie was when he mowed down a couple of guys in a truck with his big machine gun on the batmobile or batwing, can't remember which, and then it exploded, further solidifying the kill.

^Not that I agree with it but the funny thing is in Batman no.1 he kills a mental patient by hanging them from the Batwing and even the great Bat-writers like Frank Miller, Grant Morrison, Jim Starlin etc has had Bats kill.