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Topic: Coronavirus outbreak

Posts 401 to 420 of 499

NEStalgia

@HobbitGamer @HeavyArms55 Which, again comes back to what I was saying about "everyone will get it" - as Hobbit said, they're not actually trying to stop it - it's too late, they can't, it can't be stopped. It's only about keeping hospital beds open. But then that's the economic issue. How many lives can be destroyed in an economic apocalypse just to do nothing but slow down and spread out - not mitigate - the rush of hospital emergencies? End the lockdowns and the hospitals overload. Don't end the lockdowns and most lives are ruined and the economy collapses entirely, which will cause many other medical emergencies of many other varieties anyway. If it were about actually ending the disease there might still be value. But if we're doing nothing but slowing it's inevitable 100% infection rate, it's a valid concern we're doing more harm to more people by trying to "solve" something than the actual problem we're trying to solve -which isn't the disease...they've given upon stopping/solving that, mostly.

Italy also made the questionable if necessary decision to keep infected medical workers working. On one hand short staffed medical wasn't viable and they needed "someone" - on the other hand the decision to effectively infect everyone that entered a hospital for any other condition was probably not a shining moment of brilliance - they directly exposed the entirety of the most vulnerable population to the virus. That didn't help ensuring that a larger percentage of the infected were in the danger zone by making sure to infect the already sick first and thoroughly, which helps to make their statistics worse as well. Most places the general population was at risk of infection, and through them, the infirm. Italy's decision reversed that and infected the infirm first, and through them, the general population. There wasn't a good answer on what to do with a medical shortage, but among two bad choices, they picked the worse one - the one that leads to the other choice anyway but does more harm.

@ThanosReXXX If the numbers really are double digits without a more complex rationale, and I'm doubtful of internet-experts overriding CDC/WHO numbers (and I have near-zero respect or trust for WHO in general, these are the same people that carried China's water for the critical month after all, so me complimenting them says something here...), then that means CDC and WHO are intentionally, repeatedly, and continuously blurring facts to present a better picture than reality. Think about the enormous ramifications across the board if that's true, the starting one of which is that CDC and WHO can no longer be considered reliable sources of medical information or risk assessment. Not that WHO was before...

I still don't think the calculation from internet experts is the valid one here...there's a missing link to that. Again, officially they say it's about 10x more deadly than influenza. Influenza is around 2/10 of a percent. Even at 3-4 percent that's saying it's really twice as bad as they say, at 20x worse. At 16% that's saying it kills 80x more than the flu. Not one official organization has even hinted at anything even close to that level. So either the internet calculation is flawed and that number isn't right, or the official health organizations are lying though their teeth, spinning, and selectively choosing data to paint a picture they want to paint. That should cause panic, if so. If we combine your number with the statements from some US officials that 100% will get it, which isn't far from Merkel saying 70% by April, you're talking 1.2 billion dead. Nobody has hinted at death tolls in the billions, or anywhere close. Shaving off 1/6 of the entire earth population in a few months. Granted, population is probably 300% greater than it should be at this point, and one way or another I did expect that, or worse than that would happen naturally or otherwise, but that's not the level of "end of the world" any official channel has promoted.

India...that abusive display of power isn't uncommon even in the best of times in various strata of society. The caste system there is an ugly taste of an ancient era. That, plus the general poverty rate is what leads to human sardine cans that are called "offices" where the "higher tier" work. That reality, plus this disease, is an unthinkable nightmare. It almost makes me believe your 16% number just for there alone.

@Fritz_ There's a lot of scummy companies, but it's not all truly scummy. Those shops are out of business with a lockdown, and their employees are out of jobs. A lot of it is just desperation to find ways to keep people floating. "Close the company" sounds heroic. "Fire people and let their families sort out survival after that" sounds a bit more problematic. And while we all think of companies as "rich" - even the big ones don't have money readily available. Their investors and stock markets do. The bank does. The companies themselves are usually leveraged on so much debt you have more actual cash than they do. If their revenues stop....what can they pay with? IOUs and office stationary origami cranes? That's part of the "retail apocalypse" even before the plague. They have negative money. They're still paying off debts from the late 80's they were never going to pay back because the loan was based on projected future growth as if growth rate of the late 80's would last forever, so the daily receipts only covered "floating for tomorrow, and paying back tiny bits of the debt" - with the bank already leering over them that they weren't doing it fast enough.

Essentially the entire global economy wasn't just a house of cards, it was a house of cards missing most of the supports already, that still worked as long as everyone believed it still worked even though it had no substance. It only needed one catalyst to finally expose it and break it, and this is it. The whole world has been an elaborate ruse since around 1988. Nothing was real all this time. Some companies are acting in greed, but a lot of what you see is desperation more than greed.

NEStalgia

ThanosReXXX

@NEStalgia Well, I don't know what else to tell you, but it is explicitly mentioned on the site that they maintain multiple respected/reputable sources, and as mentioned, the numbers are updated every day.

And no offense, but the way you seem to be interpreting the numbers is all wrong. As I said before, the left and right stats must be seen as separate, so you need some kind of calculation to come up with the actual, general number. That 16% is ONLY valid for the number of RECORDED recovered and diseased people, so it's 16% of that, NOT of the entire world's population. And the 4% on the left is in turn ONLY valid for people still infected and/or hospitalized, but for which there is still no definitive outcome.

And they're not "internet experts", they're a site that maintains worldwide statistics on hundreds of topics, so you can use them as a reference point for a multitude of things.

Personally, I prefer the way they've done this, because as mentioned, it ultimately shows solid numbers. You can't really add the data of people still in the middle of the process to a definitive outcome, and as such, to a definitive percentage.

On a side note: I've just seen the news again, and it featured a relatively big report on the situation in New York, and that REALLY isn't looking very good. Medics over there are already bordering on becoming desperate with the situation, and it isn't going to end any time soon. Here's hoping that resident NLife New Yorkers such as @rjejr and his family can manage to stay away from the epicenter and get through it alright.

'The console wars are like boobs. Sony and Microsoft fight over which ones look the nicest and Nintendo's are the most fun to play with.'

Nintendo Network ID: ThanosReXX

rjejr

@ThanosReXXX Thanks for the concern Thanos. Yeah, I'm still here, don't have it yet, figuring it's only a matter of time until I do and then it's over. Went out grocery shopping yesterday, stress nearly broke me, but I made it to another day. One of the upsides of being suicidal for 40 years is that you realize no matter how bad things may get on any given day they usually are better the next. Though that may just be bi-polar depression, never have seen a shrink so who knows what page(s) I land on In the DSMR3, whatever it's called.

House full of people is stressful. 2 HS kids attempting to learn at home, 1 a senior trying to pick a college while he ponders life w/o prom or graduation. My wife working from home, with constant VPN and server issues on their end. So it's not like everyone is home on vacation, it's more like trying to do stuff that isn't meant to be done. While worrying about food, tp, and never ending funerals.

Regardless of which numbers are right and which are wrong people are dieing. Mostly old people. I have 10 close relatives over 70, and family in NYC and Michigan,. My sister's family in Michigan owns and runs a restaurant - take out only now - but they are there every day trying to feed people. We were supposed to visit for Easter, but I doubt it now. So yeah, a lot to think about on a personal level, not so much concerned about the big picture, who's right or wrong, I just can't handle that many funerals in such a short time frame.

So I spend all my time playing Animal Crossing to try and distract myself. AC isn't much of a game, but it's good for that. At least the sun came out today, rainy yesterday. Spring always cheers me up. 🌞

Someday we'll find it
The rainbow connection
The lovers, the dreamers and me

ThanosReXXX

@rjejr Hey, man, you're welcome. I can imagine the stress of what you're describing. I suppose that this is one of the few scenarios in which I'm actually glad to be living alone. But not all the time, because now, being home-bound, I get to see even less people than I already do under normal circumstances, so regardless of possibly being too much in each other's space, I would give my right arm for some company right now, but it is what it is, so we make do.

As for not being able to handle that many funerals: I don't think anyone can, so you're definitely not alone there.
I just heard that my brother in law's father has also been hospitalized, and now they're testing my brother in law to see if he also has the virus. If so, then he must go into quarantine with his father.

The old man is already 86, so we fear the worst, but my brother in law is only 3 years older than me, so 52, and he's a diabetic, so his chances are also below the average. It's insane what has just happened to our family, within the space of 24 hours. My sister's climbing the walls right now. I want to talk to her, but honestly, I don't even know where to begin or what to say, so I'll probably end up sending her a WhatsApp message to lend her some much needed strength...

Edited on by ThanosReXXX

'The console wars are like boobs. Sony and Microsoft fight over which ones look the nicest and Nintendo's are the most fun to play with.'

Nintendo Network ID: ThanosReXX

NEStalgia

@ThanosReXXX and joy, joy, I've been telling you for years that I'm tired of all the new Yorkers flooding the area... All i see is ny plates. So guess how fun it's going to get here?

and they're the nasty people who still prance around flitting from place to place wholly convinced it's only a problem for someone else and not them. They don't even get that they're the problem. "It's those other people that are a problem, the warnings aren't meant for me, I'm just all caught up in it!" I know some of these people. I have more respect for the virii than them. It's just trying to survive and doesn't know better. These parasites don't have that excuse.

Are cities even viable to exist at this point? "New urbanism" might see a dramatic retreat to rural demands. Though to many people for that. Good thing new Yorkers are working on that. Keep on partying NY! It's someone else's problem!

As for the statistics I'm not sure what else to say. The only two options are that the data of that site isn't being used correctly to arrive at a number the way the numbers are normally calculated, or the health organizations are perpetrating a cover-up to downplay the severity of the crisis they built and can not be trusted for information or facts. If we're really down to the health organizations massaging what data they show to downplay this were in much deeper trouble than we even thought. Especially with that fact that all of us will get it.

Edited on by NEStalgia

NEStalgia

JaxonH

My employer is now not only laying off evening shift, they’re shutting down 2 of their 3 plants starting next week. I had to choose one person in my lab to be laid off. First time I’ve ever had to do that. And the person I chose, she has a one-year-old kid. But I had to choose fairly. The other two guys have been there longer, they know more, and are, honestly, better workers.

So it’ll be me covering the lab on days, I shifted our programmer to evenings and night shift is covered already. One person on each shift as a skeleton crew in the lab to provide support to the one plant still running. And it’s the smallest plant. There’s only 20 people per shift in that plant, in a company with over 500 workers. So we are very very close to being completely shut down here. The only reason we aren’t is due to ONE customer threatening legal action if we don’t uphold our contractual agreement to supply parts.

So yet another week and another round of layoffs, and I’m one of only three people left in a shut down plant. I feel so fortunate. But I don’t know how much longer this is going to last. Hopefully the government will pass that relief bill before we shut down completely and I get laid off myself. At least with that unemployment insurance bonus I wouldn’t be screwed.

PLAYING
NS: Animal Crossing, Ori and the Blind Forest, Trials of Mana, DOOM64
PC: The Witcher 3, DOOM Eternal, Ori and the Will of the Wisps, Monster Hunter World

MOST EXCITED FOR 2020
NS: Xenoblade HD, Persona 5 S
PC: Cyberpunk 2077

Jesus is Lord.

ThanosReXXX

@NEStalgia Those "it's other people, not me" individuals can be found everywhere, that's not just a New York thing. Over here, we've got idiotic youths that are still not sticking to the rules and continue to think themselves invincible. Over in our neighboring country Belgium, young people hosted a so-called "Corona party" right before the virus truly became rampant, and now 10 of these youths are in intensive care.

I wonder what they're thinking right now, and I honestly don't know if I care enough about people being so stupid, that I'd hope they'd survive. Obviously, what with the disease now being very close to me, as described in comment #404, I wouldn't want to wish that upon anyone, but I really, REALLY hate stupidity, ESPECIALLY in the face of an overwhelming amount of evidence.

As for those numbers, just take a moment to consider this: the WHO and the accompanying organizations have everything to gain from people listening to them, staying calm and being under control, while a third party information supplier will only ever be called out on not delivering what they promised to do, which is objective and up to date numbers, and keeping them up to date, so people can actually use those numbers to their benefit, whether that be just for informational purposes or otherwise.

Either way, we'll see once the virus has run it's course and when the REAL final numbers are in, what the total death toll is, and which one of them has the correct numbers. But between you and me, if I could have foreseen this kind of response to me posting those numbers, which I only did to help give people some up to date insights, then I would most definitely have thought better of it.

'The console wars are like boobs. Sony and Microsoft fight over which ones look the nicest and Nintendo's are the most fun to play with.'

Nintendo Network ID: ThanosReXX

Heavyarms55

Congrats America, you're finally number 1 in the world other than military spending! Number 1 most cases of COVID-19! But I'm sure everything will be fine by Easter right? It's a very beautiful time and the dear leader has a "good feeling" about it!

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NEStalgia

@ThanosReXXX if only the disease wiped out only the young and spared the old, the world would be a better place...

The young, though, i expect to be morons. The new Yorkers however are middle aged and slightly over the hill adults who behave as though they never outgrew the young thing.

Well it's one or the other on the numbers. Considering WHO sat on it and just nodded along with whatever beijing said, implicating them in a cover-up isn't much of a stretch... They already did at the start. Why not hide that "not the big one" really is the big one after all? Though if we're going that far into conspiracy theory, might as well assume it was made in a lab and is doing what it was designed to do. Think about it: it's the eugenicist wet dream. Dispatch the old and weak worldwide and all you have to do is nothing at all. Whether this is that or not, you know they've considered it more than once.

A 12% discrepancy, a factor of 4, isn't a statistical error. If they're fudging by reporting only meaningless data, that's by intent..... And if they're lying to the public by misrepresenting the threat, they're responsible for all the people that seem not to think it's a serious threat as much as those individuals. And after this they need to be disbanded.

NEStalgia

Heavyarms55

@NEStalgia "if only the disease wiped out only the young and spared the old, the world would be a better place..." Even in jest that's just not okay. Stop it. There are foolish old and wise young. This kind of gross generalization is insulting in the extreme. And not only insulting but counter productive and divisive.

If you need some examples, there's a pastor in New Orleans blatantly disregarding orders to limit gatherings and is holding masses with nearly a thousand people. Recklessly endangering all of their lives. I'd consider that just a foolish as the spring breakers who disregarded the quarantine. There was a reported birthday party in I believe Connecticut in a town with no cases, a week later 85 cases were confirmed with nearly everyone at that party being among them.

Nintendo Switch FC: 4867-2891-2493
Discord: Heavyarms55 / SW 4867-2891-2493#1475
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Tyranexx

@JoeDiddley Hey, I'm not one who's good with comfort and words, but....Man, I wish you and your family the best, and that things go as well as they can given the circumstances.

Currently playing: Link's Awakening (Switch), WarioWare Gold

Switch Friend Code: SW-3478-2466-4791 | Nintendo Network ID: Zelda_By_Night

Ralizah

@rjejr Have you tried mindfulness techniques to help take your mind off of things? I find it can help when situations begin to overwhelm me.

Of course, if Animal Crossing is working to do that, then that's just as well.

@JoeDiddley I'm so sorry to hear about your grandfather.

Playing depressing games alone in my cold, dark room <3

NEStalgia

@Heavyarms55 perhaps, but generally the old and infirm aren't glibly and smugly going about the town and the world armed with only "I'm fit, I'll be fine" to defend them, and are mostly wisened by their earlier follies and a better understanding of sensible thought. Not universally but mostly.

Today I watched a kid... Probably late teens, early 20s, coughing. Then spits on the lawn. Maybe mine, maybe my elderly neighbor's. If it weren't for the risk if infection I'd have had that pos drinking his remaining meals from a straw. Its not just the very young. There's the adults who keep going into some of the worst regions... The ones you're reading about... Not for work but for fun. Then act like this whole lockdown is silly and inconvenient.

The old, infirm, at risk seem the be the only ones taking it seriously here. Which is probably why it's now the #1 and will keep getting a lot worse. The ones that deserve it the least are the ones most threatened.

To be blunt I'm inside that big red blob of doom on the maps. When you're looking into the doomed zone from the inside, it's pretty clear to pick out the enemies. But bad as it is, you really don't get the nightmare scenario the economic collapse paints here. Even if everything goes to plan it'll be out of the frying pan and into the Styx.

I do find that birthday party scenario interesting. That infection rate from one person seems exceptionally high. Very exceptionally high. I wonder what else factored in.

NEStalgia

Heavyarms55

@NEStalgia No, the old are just going around taking poison fish tank because their dear leader had a good feeling about a medicine with the same name, or holding church mass because they think Jesus will protect them from recklessly endangering themselves and others. I get that you're scared, I would be in your shoes too. But The people not taking things seriously aren't the young or the old. They are the reckless and stupid and they are drawn from all age groups.

From what the article said, people came to that party from NY, Cali and somewhere else and they think the person carrying the infection coughed in the kitchen. I wish I could find the article again but there's so much going on about the virus it's already buried down below thousands or other articles. Point is, one mistake by one person leads to massive infection. And anyone can make those mistakes.

Nintendo Switch FC: 4867-2891-2493
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NEStalgia

@Heavyarms55 that implies that the pathogen was transferred by food... Something they have said repeatedly there's no evidence of. It's probably true, but it's yet more blundering at all levels with this. They've had since mid December but only started really observing in the past 4 weeks. I still find it strange that none of the leadership of the Western world thought this was a serious problem until the last few weeks despite all the examples. Either way this disaster is 100% man made. It could have been contained early, but "business as usual"was apparently with risking all business entirely.

Btw us being #1, is that of current active cases, total cumulative cases, or cases per capita? Active makes sense since some places are past peak, cases per capita would be the terrifying figure, and cumulative needs to be considered by population given that were so much bigger in population than most of the other countries outside Asia, and geographically are equivalent to most of Europe combined, smaller than only China of the affected countries. So only the per capita figure matters that much. And even if it's higher, the geographic distance from ny to la makes it like adding Italy uk together.

Edit: not that that matters much in this particular region since it's mostly here.

Edited on by NEStalgia

NEStalgia

Heavyarms55

@NEStalgia Not necessarily by the food, but the plates, forks, or cups? Entirely possible. I've read that the virus can last days on plastic or metal and what are the two things tableware is generally made of? Especially the kind used at a party?

And per capita is a different measure for sure. Obviously Italy which isn't that far behind in numbers, has a much high per capita.

I apologize. I have a certain... dislike of America of late and I let my bias make me presumably more critical of the nation than is actually warranted in this case.

Nintendo Switch FC: 4867-2891-2493
Discord: Heavyarms55 / SW 4867-2891-2493#1475
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kkslider5552000

HEY I'M AMERICAN AND THAT'S a completely normal and reasonable opinion.

NB, demiguy, making LPs, still alive

Bioshock Infinite Let's Play!:
LeT's PlAy BIOSHOCK < Link to LP

Dezzy

Heavyarms55 wrote:

No, the old are just going around taking poison fish tank because their dear leader had a good feeling about a medicine with the same name,

That was 2 people. You can hardly draw generalisations from just 2 people.

I'm fairly confident that almost no-one else will be stupid enough to think fish tank cleaner is medicine just because it contains one of the same ingredients.

Makes about as much sense as hearing that high-iron foods can be good for you, so you go and start chowing down on a metal bar.

Edited on by Dezzy

It's dangerous to go alone! Stay at home.

Fritz_

UK's Prime Minister has just tested positive for Coronavirus

Fritz_

Ralizah

@Fritz_ Wow, he's REALLY leaning in to that "herd immunity" strategy, isn't he?

This thing is crazy infectious. I think it's pretty clear we're all going to catch it at some point. I just pray it doesn't kill my mother or my sister, both of who possess multiple risk factors to their disadvantage.

Edited on by Ralizah

Playing depressing games alone in my cold, dark room <3

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