The Stelladapter is good for recreating the C64 experience, but not so great for reviewing the games as VC releases. I like to test the games based on how well they work with a d-pad or analogue stick, since that's what VC players will use.
Betagam7, in most cases, I review the ROM. At this point, we're not given review copies of the VC releases, so in order to have the reviews ready for publication on release day, we more often than not review based on the ROMs. If the VC release has some differences (like some of the glitches we've seen on some C64 titles), then the review is rewritten to take those into account. A USB-Gamecube adapter is invaluable.
Captain_Konami, we're not comparing games directly against each other. If we were, then of course the scores would be skewed in the direction you suggest. However, that's not the way I do it, and I'd guess that the rest of the reviewers here feel the same way. I review a game in isolation, on its own merits; I judge it based on how good that game is, how well that game plays, and not how it stacks up to the latest PS3 release, or how much I liked it first time around (indeed, I didn't like Wizball much the first time around, and in reviewing it for a possible VC release, I found I liked it much more now). As such, Last Ninja III is a solid 5/5 good time, just as Super Mario Galaxy is, despite the differences in processing power, graphics, sound, etc.
To my mind, comparing a VC game to a game of today is just as unfair as looking at it from a nostalgic point of view.
Yatesy, nostalgia had no part in the scores I gave to Last Ninja 3 or Impossible Mission II I assure you. That would be dishonest, and I try to come to review each game on its own merits.
@ Drake, well, the Game Gear version plays quite differently, since the play area is scaled down due to the screen size. This is one of my favourites in the whole series, but it tends to get overlooked due to 16-bit snobbery.
Like the first Sonic on the Master System, it's a good game, but nowhere near as good as its console counterpart.
Lies! Well, technically correct, since MD Sonic 2 is absolutely brilliant, and MS Sonic 2 is just plain brilliant, but you're definitely doing the 8-bit game a disservice Marcel.
Mr Cheez, in all fairness, there's not much grinding in the first Phantasy Star, but what there is, is all at the beginning of the game, so it might be a bit off-putting to newcomers.
@Adamant, I haven't played the rest of the games for a while, but the first Phantasy Star does require a lot of grinding in the early part of the game.
Very good game, and despite being in the same broad genre as titles like FF Tactics and Shining Force, it's got a number of unique features which set it apart. Great music too.
Ogre Battle is a brilliant game that I'm not sure was as popular as it should have been back in the day, so it's good to see it getting a second chance. And Sonic 2 is also quite brilliant. Better by far than the already-excellent original.
There are three generations of MS box art. The first generation, like Space Harrier, have the basic grid and dodgy art. The second generation (like the first Sonic) retain the grid, but improve the art. The third generation (circa 1992, like Mortal Kombat) drop the grid entirely in most cases.
Hey, without that old Sega/Nintendo rivalry, Brawl matches between Sonic and Mario wouldn't be nearly as fun for us old-timers!
I'd argue that the zealot culture is still rife, particularly between X360 and PS3 owners (and to a lesser extent between them and the Wii owners). It reminds me of the old days! I don't know if it's still present in the gaming mags, as I haven't read one in years.
Absolutely brilliant game, and it will be great to play it on a TV! I've been hoping to see t on Wiiware since the service was announced, as in many ways Cave Story feels like a classic Nintendo game of yesteryear. Its spiritual home is on a Nintendo console, so the release is very fitting. Wiiware's killer app?
David77, this game did come out after Super Mario World but also on a far inferior system, so it's unfair to compare them directly. And if you think the first Super Mario Bros is "way ahead" of this game, you're crazy. Really.
Draygone, fair enough. Since I grew up playing computer (rather then console) games, pressing a button to jump strikes me as odd.
Jazzem, I would have given this four (eight under the new system) stars, because despite the presentation and the technical achievement, the controls are a bit fiddly, particularly the speed dash.
I'd disagree. The MD port is on a par with SNES Turbo. While it is called Special Champion Edition, it includes both a version of Championship Edition (the "second upgrade" Fax mentions), enhanced to four-star speed and a version of Turbo which is just as fast as the SNES port. Yes, perhaps the graphics and sound are a little worse than SNES Turbo, but the additional features more than make up for it; this is the best non-Super version of the game available.
I will amend my first statement though. If you haven't picked up a version of SFII yet, then get Super; I'd completely forgotten about its release!
@Tony: I can't be sure, but I believe the NES version was indeed released in the US.
@WiiloveitOnline: Yes, Rocks n Gems is essentially a Boulder Dash clone. I think there are some minor differences, but if you liked the PS1 game, you should enjoy this.
Tides, this version of SFII is roughly the same as Turbo on the SNES, but it's got a couple of extra features, like team battle and turbo stars in championship mode. If you've already got Turbo, then there's not much of a reason to get the MD version, but if you've been waiting, this is definitely the one to get.
@Mr Cheez, now I understand what you mean by "crappy sounding". Yeah, the sound isn't as good as the SNES versions, but the game as a whole is a touch better, so you make your choice.
And my avatar is from the C64 game Creatures 2 which I hope we'll see sometime on the VC. Brilliant game.
Yes, good solid game this, with unpretentious gameplay. I do think that the lack of bells and whistles does let it down a bit, but if all you want to do is some simple racing, then you could do worse. And it's not as if we've got a huge choice of racers on the VC right now.
Dazza, I doubted it just slightly because the original announcement was that we'd see GG games under the MS banner too, so I was just checking.
Bass, thanks for the confirmation. I knew about the differences between the two versions, I was just expecting Nintendo to cock up somehow and release the GG version. I'm looking forward to the UK release of this one!
I found this one more difficult than the MD version. Great game this, although the sequel is a touch better (and more difficult again!), and the music is particularly good, especially for the MS, which often didn't do well in this regard. A definite classic.
Oh, and can we confirm that it is indeed the MS version, and not the GG one?
Well, to be fair, some of the really early SMS cover art was shockingly awful. This game is in the middle period, where it's not quite as awful as stuff like Choplifter, but the style hasn't grown up quite yet. Once we get to 1991 or so, the cover art has really improved.
Mr Cheez, why is this "crappy-sounding"? I'm honestly baffled by that.
This is definitely the most complete version of SFII Turbo available. Fair enough if you've already got Turbo on the SNES, there's not a whole lot added here to make it worth an additional purchase. But if you were to buy only one version of SFII Turbo, this is the one to get.
For what it's worth, I had both back in the day, although since I owned a MD and SNES at different times, I didn't have both at the same time. If I had to pick one now, it would be the MD version.
Roo, you're quite incorrect. This is a touch better than SNES SFII Turbo. Full turbo capability, turbo stars available in "normal" mode too, more character colour options and, unless I'm mistaken in my memories of the game, a rudimentary team battle mode.
The sound is a bit weaker than the SNES version, but overall, this is the stronger game, by virtue of the extra features.
If you press the T key on the keyboard, your opponents' trousers fall down, distracting them briefly so you can get a few quick hits in, or get up if you've been knocked down. I thought you could do it on the C64, but it may be an Amiga exclusive!
I don't think it's fair to call Jumpman a rip-off of Donkey Kong. There are visual similarities, but the game plays very differently. it's got girders and ladders in it, and that's it. Hardly a rip-off.
@DEMON212, the "trousers" aren't in the C64 version? Really? I was sure they were. I'm going to have to check now, which won't be a chore, as IK+ is such an excellent game!
Comments 550
Re: EU VC Update: Last Ninja 3, Impossible Mission II and Boogerman
The Stelladapter is good for recreating the C64 experience, but not so great for reviewing the games as VC releases. I like to test the games based on how well they work with a d-pad or analogue stick, since that's what VC players will use.
Re: EU VC Update: Last Ninja 3, Impossible Mission II and Boogerman
Betagam7, in most cases, I review the ROM. At this point, we're not given review copies of the VC releases, so in order to have the reviews ready for publication on release day, we more often than not review based on the ROMs. If the VC release has some differences (like some of the glitches we've seen on some C64 titles), then the review is rewritten to take those into account. A USB-Gamecube adapter is invaluable.
Re: EU VC Update: Last Ninja 3, Impossible Mission II and Boogerman
Captain_Konami, we're not comparing games directly against each other. If we were, then of course the scores would be skewed in the direction you suggest. However, that's not the way I do it, and I'd guess that the rest of the reviewers here feel the same way. I review a game in isolation, on its own merits; I judge it based on how good that game is, how well that game plays, and not how it stacks up to the latest PS3 release, or how much I liked it first time around (indeed, I didn't like Wizball much the first time around, and in reviewing it for a possible VC release, I found I liked it much more now). As such, Last Ninja III is a solid 5/5 good time, just as Super Mario Galaxy is, despite the differences in processing power, graphics, sound, etc.
To my mind, comparing a VC game to a game of today is just as unfair as looking at it from a nostalgic point of view.
Re: EU VC Update: Last Ninja 3, Impossible Mission II and Boogerman
Yatesy, nostalgia had no part in the scores I gave to Last Ninja 3 or Impossible Mission II I assure you. That would be dishonest, and I try to come to review each game on its own merits.
Re: USA VC Update: Sonic the Hedgehog 2 (Master System)
Both versions of Sonic 2 came out on the same day, the 24th of November 1992. Sonic Twosday.
Re: USA VC Update: Sonic the Hedgehog 2 (Master System)
@ Drake, well, the Game Gear version plays quite differently, since the play area is scaled down due to the screen size. This is one of my favourites in the whole series, but it tends to get overlooked due to 16-bit snobbery.
Re: USA VC Update: Sonic the Hedgehog 2 (Master System)
Like the first Sonic on the Master System, it's a good game, but nowhere near as good as its console counterpart.
Lies! Well, technically correct, since MD Sonic 2 is absolutely brilliant, and MS Sonic 2 is just plain brilliant, but you're definitely doing the 8-bit game a disservice Marcel.
Re: Virtual Console Reviews is Two Today!
Happy birthday VCR!
Re: EU VC Update: Phantasy Star IV and Mega Man 3
Mr Cheez, in all fairness, there's not much grinding in the first Phantasy Star, but what there is, is all at the beginning of the game, so it might be a bit off-putting to newcomers.
Re: EU VC Update: Phantasy Star IV and Mega Man 3
@Adamant, I haven't played the rest of the games for a while, but the first Phantasy Star does require a lot of grinding in the early part of the game.
Re: EU VC Releases: Phantasy Star IV and Mega Man 3
Virus, we had a couple of months of one-game-weeks not so long ago, so we'll take two games and be happy about it!
I'm still waiting for the first Phantasy Star...
Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 2
Great game, one of my favourites in the series, and second only to the MD version in my mind.
Re: Ogre Battle: The March of the Black Queen
Very good game, and despite being in the same broad genre as titles like FF Tactics and Shining Force, it's got a number of unique features which set it apart. Great music too.
Re: Japanese Virtual Console list - November 2008
Ogre Battle is a brilliant game that I'm not sure was as popular as it should have been back in the day, so it's good to see it getting a second chance.
And Sonic 2 is also quite brilliant. Better by far than the already-excellent original.
Re: Space Harrier
There are three generations of MS box art. The first generation, like Space Harrier, have the basic grid and dodgy art. The second generation (like the first Sonic) retain the grid, but improve the art. The third generation (circa 1992, like Mortal Kombat) drop the grid entirely in most cases.
Re: Street Fighter II: Special Champion Edition
I've been telling people about the group battles on the MD version for ages!
Easily my favourite version of "plain" SFII.
Re: Mayhem in Monsterland
Hey, without that old Sega/Nintendo rivalry, Brawl matches between Sonic and Mario wouldn't be nearly as fun for us old-timers!
I'd argue that the zealot culture is still rife, particularly between X360 and PS3 owners (and to a lesser extent between them and the Wii owners). It reminds me of the old days! I don't know if it's still present in the gaming mags, as I haven't read one in years.
Re: Cave Story
Absolutely brilliant game, and it will be great to play it on a TV! I've been hoping to see t on Wiiware since the service was announced, as in many ways Cave Story feels like a classic Nintendo game of yesteryear. Its spiritual home is on a Nintendo console, so the release is very fitting. Wiiware's killer app?
Re: New WiiWare Games: Cave Story And Boingz
Cave Story! Brilliant!
Re: Kaasa Interview - Commodore 64 on Virtual Console
eltomo, read the last question.
Re: Mayhem in Monsterland
soniczelda dude, so you're basing this opinion on what? The video? Seems a strange way to judge the gameplay...
David77, the game is respected now because it's a good game, just as it was when it was released.
Re: Mayhem in Monsterland
David77, this game did come out after Super Mario World but also on a far inferior system, so it's unfair to compare them directly. And if you think the first Super Mario Bros is "way ahead" of this game, you're crazy. Really.
Draygone, fair enough. Since I grew up playing computer (rather then console) games, pressing a button to jump strikes me as odd.
Jazzem, I would have given this four (eight under the new system) stars, because despite the presentation and the technical achievement, the controls are a bit fiddly, particularly the speed dash.
Re: Mayhem in Monsterland
Why not? It makes more sense that up should be jump, if you think about it. You press up to go, er, up.
Also, the C64 had only one fire button, so there's not much that can be done.
Re: EU VC Releases: Mayhem in Monsterland and More
Betagam7, yes the Rowlands brothers were also responsible for the excellent Creatures series, as well as the not-quite-as-excellent Cyberdyne Warrior.
Re: Mayhem in Monsterland
Great game, but Creatures 2 was better! Very good and fair review, Mat.
Re: EU VC Releases: Mayhem in Monsterland and More
Sod Secret of Mana, I'm so pleasantly surprised to see Mayhem! Of course, Creatures 2 is better, but you can't have everything.
Re: USK Update: Wizball
Exactly, there were versions of Sensi on SNES, Mega Drive and Master System, so while I'd obviously prefer the Amiga version, there are possibilities!
Re: USK Update: Wizball
Wizball is great, but I hope that this means that Sensible Soccer is on its way!
Re: USA VC Releases: Mario Golf and Shining Force II
Not interested in Mario Golf really, but it bodes well for the excellent Mario Tennis to be released!
Re: PEGI and ESRB Update: Last Ninja 3, Enduro Racer and More
I'd disagree. The MD port is on a par with SNES Turbo. While it is called Special Champion Edition, it includes both a version of Championship Edition (the "second upgrade" Fax mentions), enhanced to four-star speed and a version of Turbo which is just as fast as the SNES port. Yes, perhaps the graphics and sound are a little worse than SNES Turbo, but the additional features more than make up for it; this is the best non-Super version of the game available.
I will amend my first statement though. If you haven't picked up a version of SFII yet, then get Super; I'd completely forgotten about its release!
Re: Boulder Dash
@Tony: I can't be sure, but I believe the NES version was indeed released in the US.
@WiiloveitOnline: Yes, Rocks n Gems is essentially a Boulder Dash clone. I think there are some minor differences, but if you liked the PS1 game, you should enjoy this.
Re: PEGI and ESRB Update: Last Ninja 3, Enduro Racer and More
Tides, this version of SFII is roughly the same as Turbo on the SNES, but it's got a couple of extra features, like team battle and turbo stars in championship mode. If you've already got Turbo, then there's not much of a reason to get the MD version, but if you've been waiting, this is definitely the one to get.
Re: EU VC Releases: Super Mario RPG and Super Mario Bros.: The Lost Levels
Maybe you North Americans will have to wait twelve years to see Super Mario RPG on VC!
Re: Street Fighter II: Special Champion Edition
@Mr Cheez, now I understand what you mean by "crappy sounding". Yeah, the sound isn't as good as the SNES versions, but the game as a whole is a touch better, so you make your choice.
And my avatar is from the C64 game Creatures 2 which I hope we'll see sometime on the VC. Brilliant game.
Re: Goldeneye Locked In Legal Limbo
@Mickeymac, I adore Timesplitters 2, and it definitely captures the Goldeneye feel, but Future Perfect is probably a bit better.
Re: Goldeneye Locked In Legal Limbo
Just buy the GC version of one of the Timesplitters games? They play almost identically to Goldeneye anyway.
Re: Pitstop II
Yes, good solid game this, with unpretentious gameplay. I do think that the lack of bells and whistles does let it down a bit, but if all you want to do is some simple racing, then you could do worse. And it's not as if we've got a huge choice of racers on the VC right now.
Re: Sonic the Hedgehog
Dazza, I doubted it just slightly because the original announcement was that we'd see GG games under the MS banner too, so I was just checking.
Bass, thanks for the confirmation. I knew about the differences between the two versions, I was just expecting Nintendo to cock up somehow and release the GG version. I'm looking forward to the UK release of this one!
Re: Sonic the Hedgehog
I found this one more difficult than the MD version. Great game this, although the sequel is a touch better (and more difficult again!), and the music is particularly good, especially for the MS, which often didn't do well in this regard. A definite classic.
Oh, and can we confirm that it is indeed the MS version, and not the GG one?
Re: Wonder Boy in Monster Land
Well, to be fair, some of the really early SMS cover art was shockingly awful. This game is in the middle period, where it's not quite as awful as stuff like Choplifter, but the style hasn't grown up quite yet. Once we get to 1991 or so, the cover art has really improved.
Re: Street Fighter II: Special Champion Edition
Ooh, the PCE port was pretty good. I wouldn't be surprised if we did see that!
Or maybe even the C64 port... ;P
Demon, you're not missing much; the original Street Fighter was terrible!
Re: Street Fighter II: Special Champion Edition
Mr Cheez, why is this "crappy-sounding"? I'm honestly baffled by that.
This is definitely the most complete version of SFII Turbo available. Fair enough if you've already got Turbo on the SNES, there's not a whole lot added here to make it worth an additional purchase. But if you were to buy only one version of SFII Turbo, this is the one to get.
For what it's worth, I had both back in the day, although since I owned a MD and SNES at different times, I didn't have both at the same time. If I had to pick one now, it would be the MD version.
Re: Street Fighter II: Special Champion Edition
Yeah, the 3-button MD pads were a pain in the proverbial when the beat-em-up craze hit!
Re: Street Fighter II: Special Champion Edition
Roo, you're quite incorrect. This is a touch better than SNES SFII Turbo. Full turbo capability, turbo stars available in "normal" mode too, more character colour options and, unless I'm mistaken in my memories of the game, a rudimentary team battle mode.
The sound is a bit weaker than the SNES version, but overall, this is the stronger game, by virtue of the extra features.
Re: Japanese Virtual Console list - August 2008
I'm pleased by the SFII release, as I reckon it's the best of the pre-Super editions.
Re: International Karate +
If you press the T key on the keyboard, your opponents' trousers fall down, distracting them briefly so you can get a few quick hits in, or get up if you've been knocked down. I thought you could do it on the C64, but it may be an Amiga exclusive!
Re: RPG Action Comes to the US Next Month in Ys Book I & II
I don't think it's fair to call Jumpman a rip-off of Donkey Kong. There are visual similarities, but the game plays very differently. it's got girders and ladders in it, and that's it. Hardly a rip-off.
Re: EU VC Update - International Karate +
Weird. Well, I had both the C64 and Amiga editions, so I'm probably confusing the two.
Re: EU VC Update - International Karate +
@DEMON212, the "trousers" aren't in the C64 version? Really? I was sure they were. I'm going to have to check now, which won't be a chore, as IK+ is such an excellent game!
Re: EU VC Update - International Karate +
@Fierce, IK+ is about as fast paced as you get. Give it a try, it's excellent!