RPG Action Comes to the US Next Month in Ys Book I & II

Woohooo!!!!
Hopely they come to Europe to!

Yeah First Comment!

I hope Chase HQ does come out next week. I am looking forward to it. No more teasing Hudson. Also lets sneak Mega Man in as well

Looks like you americans are finally getting some games before us Ys I and II. I guess us PAL users might not get that game for a while since the bunch of Turbographx games we got a couple of months back is still wating to be released in America.

Really want this.

We're FINALLY getting Ys? Holy damn, it's about time!

I didn't believe we (or at least America) would see this that soon (I thought SMRPG might come first).
I hope Europe will see it to this year!

Wow this is getting interesting! I remember reading a lot about Ys on SNES (III if I'm not mistaken) and while I never had the chance to play it, it really looked great. Surely I'll get those.
And maybe I'll even start to look forward to Mondays again!

I already have 800 points saved for this or Mega Man, which ever comes first.

I hope this is true.

Y's Book 1 & 2 is one of the games that I want on the vc. I've been waiting for it for a long time.

@hansolo: Doesn't Megaman 9 cost 1000 Wii Points? Or do you mean Megaman 7 (the only original Megaman title which fits 800 Wii Points)?

Yeah I meant Mega Man 1 since I think they will try to get the first two games out before 9 does.

Oh my God, I envy you for swagging the Ys batch I hope that comes to Europe soon, that could very well be my first Turbographx purchase for a while if it does.

Go Hudson!

I don't think it's fair to call Jumpman a rip-off of Donkey Kong. There are visual similarities, but the game plays very differently. it's got girders and ladders in it, and that's it. Hardly a rip-off.

excellent news, Ive been looking forward to Ys for a while, and with Megaman hopefully coming soon I'll be set

Hey, congrats US! I thought Y´s was declared dead to VC...

I didn't forget, how could I?
It's just that no Megaman title costs 800 Points

I've been eagerly awaiting the chance to play Ys book 1 and 2. I love a good RPG and just from the videos it looks amazing and the music just sticks in my head. This better not be another tease. I'm still burned up about the delay of Star parodier. Looks like it may not be much longer of a wait. Yay!

Yes, this is good news indeed. I'm especially happy to hear about Chase H.Q. and Star Parodier. I'll be getting Ys too, eventhough I think it's crap, but only to see if I'll be proven wrong.

Oh, and Objection_blaster, I believe it's time to say "sic".

I am gonna guess that North America won't be "MegaManless" very long. I expect we will get the first game in August. Hopefully we won't be "Vectormanless" to much longer

Jumpman is a totally different game than Donkey Kong. I don't know why you're calling it a rip-off of Donkey Kong. Have you ever played it? The only thing in common is the name of the hero. Mario was called Jumpan back then.

I want to know if someone have already played Chase H.Q on the turbograf16, and if it's a great port, because I want this game.

@david77

Just check, the coming soon section, cause accord to the VCboys, it is.

Nintendo should make August the month of the RPG and release one each monday. Phantasy Star IV, Shining Force II and Super Mario RPG would be the other obvious choices sinse they are due to come out anyway. It has been a while sinse Nintendo has done any themed releases like that, so maybe thats what they are planning. ^^'

The creator of Jumpman clearly stated in an interview that it was largely based on Donkey Kong. But fine, I'll change the wording

Bah! I am VERY jealous that you guys are getting Jumpman next month. Come ON, Nintendo, there are plenty of C64 fans over here in the US too!

I KNEW IT! Check out my comment on the Y"s page! I said "this is never coming out is it? Unless it comes out be like "sic!" " EDIT: Mickeymac caught this already! Anyway, very cool that we know what we're getting VC wise for once, and they're pretty decent offerings (may or may not take a look), if nothing game-breaking. But Game-breaking is definately not what i expect from VC anyway.

I want C64 GAMES! 8(

It just hit me, Final Soldier and Castlevania X: Rondo Of Blood ain't on here! Oh well, I'll take what I can get.

Oh, and quick Q, should I get Beyond Oasis or Breath of Fire II, since I have points now? Or should I get both and not get Shining force, since I just got Advanced Wars?

Even the name says, that Jumpman was inspired by Donkey Kong. Mario was originally named Jumpman!

What a surprise, no Cho Aniki for US. (cries)

I know there is a Ys PSP and PS2 game. Is the game similar or as good as Ys 1 and 2?

Awesome news! I love Ys! I've heard the turbografx version of 1 and 2 was the best, I've never played it

Also, super excited about Star Parodier!

Its a relief to have clear the dates of that delayed games but personally I think we deserve further explanation or at least a little regrets about this and many other vc delays, its already much of an offense from Nintendo (who ultimately dates and uploads EVERY release) to have us researching for that dates because of that stupid policy of keeping as top secret the future vc title releases and its dates.

@Rapadash6: I wouldnt hope for Super Mario RPG since its ESRB rating got canceled ...

@Rapadash. You forgot Earthbound.

I'm not Uber-excited about chase H.Q., but I might check it out, as well as maybe Ys, if it has aged better than I think it has.
Do we have anything else coming this Monday?
And Star Parodier next Monday! Wheeeeee!

what game is this most similar too?

@Mr. Cheez

I would never forget Earthbound, but I don't think it'll be released anytime that soon, especially given that it, unlike the titles I've mentioned, has yet be released in Japan and isn't even scheduled for August over there. Chances are though, that my speculation will just be crushed by a month gone by without ANY of those games coming out, but I do hold some hope of getting these awesome RPGs sooner than later.

"Even the name says, that Jumpman was inspired by Donkey Kong. Mario was originally named Jumpman!"

So what? He may have played Donkey Kong and got some inspiration, but that hardly makes it a "rip-off"! There are girders and ladders in Jumpman, and girders and ladders in Donkey Kong. Aside from that, the two games have NOTHING in common. In Donkey Kong, you're trying to save your girlfriend from the clutches of a giant gorilla. In Jumpman, you're running around a moon base trying to disarm bombs while avoiding various traps and obstacles. Donkey Kong has 4 stages where the goal is usually to reach the top without getting hit. Jumpman has 30 stages divided over 3 difficulties, and most of them are vastly different from each other. The physics of the games are also entirely different.

Anybody who seriously thinks that Jumpman is anything like Donkey Kong hasn't played the game.

Well, I know I'm making at least one VC purchase next month!

Bluntly put...about goddamn time with Ys Book 1 and 2. I had that on TG CD since I got a duo in the middle of the later 90s up until a couple years ago via emulation and I miss it. Been really making me mad how long it sat in limbo due to Nintendo or whoever so I'm all up on getting that one when it drops.

@Mickeymac: Beyond Oasis and Shining Force would be the best combo.

Looks like a pretty good month,. If Mega Man comes too, this will be one of the better months of '08 for North America in my opinion.

I wish the US would get the C64 games. Jumpman and Jumpman Jr. are two of my all-time favorites. But at least we get Ys Book I & II. One of the greatest RPGs ever made. I think gamers are going to really enjoy it.

ever since legend of dragoon and my final fantasy game on the ps1 i hunger for rpg and good story. my question is was turbo a console or a arcade. i want to know cuz i like to train till there isn,t enough exp to level up faster that id be spend hours just to get to the next level lol and i would like to save my hard work unless it pauses like snes and nes games i know n64 games doesn,t. thanks in advance

@Atlantis1982

never. never ever.

I'm on the side of the protesters regarding Jumpman. I had the game on an old floppy disc and I found it fun to play on back in the day (though hours of comprehensive playing showed that I adapt to gameplay through keyboard input slower than controllers, lol). And even though the name and the ladders had something in common, both of these games are entirely different beasts. If it was a ripoff, Nintendo would have gone to sue Epyx's hineys to death at the time of release, just like they almost did with Rainbow Arts regarding The Great Giana Sisters.

@Adamant

Too late, I went with Breath of Fire II, thanks to Jogurt's advise. I'll get Beyond Oasis when I get Ys, that way it won't be a total waste.

Anywho, I'm convinced - That Jumpman is not a rip-off, in fact, it sounds like it's 10 times better that Donkey Kong. Now I want that C64 over here, just for that game. And maybe Last Ninja. And Pararoid. And a fuzzy wuzzle.

@BlackFira

The Turbografx-16 is a console, with all the regular console features, as well as the save state. It just has a lot of Arcade ports on it. In fact, even the Neo Geo was a console, just based off of Arcade tech. Ys will have be an RPG as you know them, don't worry.

Still waiting for Mario RPG...

The Ys gameplay doesn't look all that great. Am I missing something?

Apparently, Ninty decided to make August Hudson Month, and unless they sneak SMRPG in there somewhere, there's no point in getting your hopes up next month. I can't say I'm complaining though, since aside from Break In, I was looking forward to all of these games! And finally we see more TG-16 games! Now for more non-fighter Neo-Geo games...ya know what, lets hold NG off till September.

@deadly.by.design

I know what you mean, I think it's just nostalgia talking when they say how great it is, but I'm giving it a go, since there are absolutely no Roms of that game.

For some strange reason, it reminds me of the obscure NES Action RPG called Faria. Think I'll pass on this one, but I'm glad to see some folks eager for it.

/rips open newly purchased FF Chocobo Wii game

The creator of Jumpan has stated on multiple occasions that Donkey Kong was the inspiration for Jumpman. That being said, the games don't really play anything alike. I think the girders and ladders were the main pull over from Donkey Kong. Then the game took on a style all its own. Outstanding game, even by today's standards and one I drag the old Commodore 64 and floppy disk drive out for from time to time to play through.

@deadly.by.design - Don't let the look fool you. Ys Book I & II is one of the greatest rpgs ever created and did things back during its time period that no other rpg was doing. In fact, it laid out the groundwork for the way rpgs would evolve over the past decade. A stunning title, even still.

Does anyone else think the Y's box art looks awesome? I am not an RPG fan, but the box art make me want to play the game.

@Corbie and other Y"S fans
Regarding the combat, is there any depth besides getting next to an enemy and hitting the attack button? Not to offend you or the game, but thats what it looks like in the vid.

Its a relief to have clear the dates of that delayed games but personally I think we deserve further explanation or at least a little regrets about this and many other vc delays

When you look at it, we got 2 Import games instead of 2 other Import games. I would think someone at Hudson may have been told Nintendo was doing an Import Day this month and assumed it would feature their games.

Bunch of games I'm willing to try this month (If only I had the money). Btw is Y's pronounced like the letter E (the way I've been saying it) or is it just the letter Y.

Ys is pronounced "Ees"

Gosh darn, that means I have to wait two more weeks for Star Parodier...how can an impatient arse like me do that?!?! Besides that, good news overall. Ys will probably join my sparse collection of RPGs.

No kirby dreamland 3?

The combat is very simplistic, but it works with how the game is set up. If you don't level up, you'll find out quickly when you try to run into an enemy. You really have to experience this game to understand its draw.

And Ys is pronounced like the word Geese without the "G" sound.

I definitely hope that Hudson and Nintendo have their news straight this time, since I so want Star Parodier and Ys Book I & II. ;_;

@PSWii60Gamer

Last I checked, Hudson doesn't announce SNES games for Nintendo when they're talking about TG16/PCE games. Still, KD3 should come eventually...

Is Ys book 1 & 2 more like Zelda or is it turn based? Either way it looks amazing and the artwork on the box cover is just beautiful! That rainbow and the sunrise is awe inspiring. Wow I gotta have this! It just became my most wanted VC game.

Zelda-ish, only without the sword, you just run into the enemy and hope you have a level high enough to kill him.

Huh? Run into the enemy? How are you supposed to kill things without a weapon? I guess I missed that part.

You still have the sword, just that you don't physically have to use it. Apparently the game code does all the slash and hacking for you, your success depending on the strength of the enemy in comparison to yours.

Oh, well that sounds a little different than what I'm used to but still Ys looks amazing and I can harly wait to try it. The graphics and sound are outstanding but I'm a little concerned about the gameplay. I hope it's not so strange that it takes all the fun out of it.

Lucky me that i kept a few points ready to download super mario rpg when it was oflc rated. oh well, since there are no news as to when we'll be able to get it, i might as well spend those points on this game instead then.

@ Kafei2006-

Bingo, Nintendo wins.
ESRB announces a huge game, Super Mario RPG, so everyone buys Wii points.
Months pass without SMRPG, so people spend their points.
They finally release SMRPG once everyone has forgotten, and everyone buys more Wii points.

See what Nintendo did there?
They screwed you, my friend. They've screwed us all.

Hey wait, i haven't spent my points yet ^^. Besides i live in Europe, so i can't be sure if it'll come to Europe at all. It's not been PEGI rated yet, so i'll believe it when i see it, even though i have high hopes since it was OFLC rated.

lol to the above comments right after i decided to buy dr mario and a choice to between breath of fire 2 and toki tori i chose breath of fire 2. after seeing i have 900 points left which i still do i decided to wait cuz SOME guy on vc thought it was coming next monday. but nothing. the dark side of the force is strong in nintendo i tell ya and microsoft but i just plain hate bill gates for some reason probably cuz of tht video in grade 9 bout how he successfull blah blah blah and apple was in it as well. but lol my point being is nintendo is so secretive i sense the dark side of the force they are hiding from us.

The only thing announcing a title does is make my fist tighten around my remaining 1100 points. I've had them for months, and at this point, it looks like they're going towards Megaman 9. (unless I also buy MM2 beforehand in a moment of weakness)

looks like a good couple of weeks are ahead.

Personally I could care less if SMRPG comes out or not. I not saying I hate the game, I liked the game. The reasons I don't care is that:
1. I still have the original cart and system and they both work perfectly fine.
2. I played the game to death, I know every plot twist, secret, enemy weakness, etc.There's no challege or surprise in that game for me anymore.I want to play something I have not memorized, like Secret of Mana, Ys, or Dragon Quest.

No Turbographx games in Europe this next month? Oh no. That's absolutely terrible.

is this game really all that good? it doesn't look very appealing

@x.SuperMario.x- Comment 69,

Nintendo didn't screw all of us with Super Mario Rpg. Some people already own the game including myself.

I am a person that doesn't believe in downloading games that I already own.

Not everyone wants the same vc game. Everyone has different games that want. You shouldn't say everyone is screwed as a result.

Jesus Christ, I didn't literally mean every person on Earth bought points for SMRPG.

Don't take things so damn seriously.

I would laugh my tits off is SMRPG turned out to be crap, you guys have hyped this up so much yet all I can see is a basic rpg that is Paper Mario's little brother. Ninty didn't take a gun out and force you to spend those points did they? They haven't screwed anyone, well other than charging overly inflated prices for Wii ware but thats another argument for another day.

Some great games announced for the US here, I'm hoping for Chase HQ out over here soon too.

Plus, you know, Nintendo haven't actually announced Mario RPG at all. You went digging in rating lists for it. Not their fault.

Are you serious?
You honestly think Nintendo didn't know we'd find out?

Please.
It's their show, you're all puppets.
They play you like fiddles, and you all deny it.

@ sadpanda212- If we've already played SMRPG, and liked it, how could it be crap?
It's not like their changing the game any.
The only people that could be disappointed are the youngsters who haven't played it. And they shouldn't be hyping it anyway.

But there's a reason to everything they do.
To the people that say they just randomly pop out games, you're ignorant.
They're easily the smartest publisher in gaming, and somehow people still question their intelligence.

You don't think they pumped up the hype train for Earthbound and SMRPG?
Riight.
If anyone here was half as smart as anyone at Nintendo, they'd be sipping martinis on their own private island.

I swear, x.SuperMario.x, you make Nintendo sound like it is the smartest evil entity in the world...

If these games above don't come out on their scheduled dates, perhaps I'll agree with you.

"Mwhaha, let's have that popular game we released ten years ago rerated! Then two or three people will see it on ERSB's rating list, and will spread the world, so roughly a hundred people worldwide will think the game will be coming soon! Then, if five of those buy points now instead of waiting for us to actually release it, we'll make 50$ on their hasty purchase! If we don't release the game for a while, they might spend those money on some other games they probably would've eventually bought anyway! We're talking tens of dollars worth of profit here! Hahaha, how diabolical!"

okay before we get even more off topic about how sinister nintendo, can someone explain what this game is like...because everyone seems to want it, and from the videos...i have no idea why?? also, how long is it on your first play through??

Well, I don't know about the story, but it has good music, and the gameplay is like a drawn out game of Russian roulette, which some people must find amusing. Oh, and don't forget the pretty colors!

After a quick search online. . .

Ys 1+2 opening: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=46NLbv9P8W0
Ys 1+2 review: http://www.rpgfan.com/reviews/ys1&2/Ys_Book_1&2.html

It's amazing how ignorant some people can be.
You make Nintendo out to be a room filled with monkeys, who place old games on a board, and throw darts to see which ones they'll release.
Do you honestly think this multi-billion dollar company doesn't have a plan for everything?

you make Nintendo sound like it is the smartest evil entity in the world...

You don't become rich by playing by the rules. Nintendo knows how to take your money. I'm not sure why people remain so blind to that fact.

so roughly a hundred people worldwide will think the game will be coming soon!

Oh my. There's easily a hundred people on this site, that thought the game was coming soon. And this site represents a very small part of the gaming community.
There's easily thousands of people that thought SMRPG was coming soon. Ever go to other gaming sites, or spend all your time on the almighty VC-R? People have been clamoring over SMRPG for a while, on a multitude of websites. But please, keep thinking only a couple people know about SMRPG, good luck keeping it a secret.

Why do some people think they know Nintendo better than Nintendo knows Nintendo?
I just don't get it.
A company that's been around for years, made plenty of money, and yet people toss aside their actions as random and pointless.
Good lord, people are dumb on the internet.

@GameSearcher

Damn that was a good intro! I'm not too swayed by the review, but the again, I only skim those things anyways. All in all, I'd say it doesn't sound as bad as I thought, but I'm not entirely convinced, if only because I'm stubborn. Basicly, I believe it when I play it.

Edit: @.xSuperMariox.

I guess it's nice to hear from you...again...

@x.SuperMario.x
"Why do some people think they know Nintendo better than Nintendo knows Nintendo?" Why do you, bud? I'm not going to claim I know Nintendo ('cause God knows how many times I've been the fool), but they don't always know how to get our money. Look at the N64 and Gamecube for examples. You may be right about Nintendo's marketing for SMRPG, but then again, that makes it seem like Nintendo is focusing on the hardcore gamers for once. Doesn't that seem a bit out of place?

But anyways, I just wanted to thank GameSearcher for the video links. I think August is looking even more up for me. Hopefully that holds true!

I couldnt have said it better than x.SuperMario.x

@Virus

Please, please don't taunt him, you'll only make him come back, angrier the last.

Nintendo never left the hardcore gamers. Anyone who thinks so, is ignorant. Within a short time span, they released Metroid Prime 3, Brawl, Mario Kart, and Super Mario Galaxy. And people say they're abandoning us? Please.

As for the GameCube and N64, both were great consoles. Their only problem, was that they didn't catch the entire casual audience. Hardcore gamers loved both consoles, delivering us some of the best games ever seen, ie; Ocarina of Time, Goldeneye, Melee, Metroid Prime, etc. So like any great company, they thought things over, and came up with the Wii. Now what? Well Nintendo has claimed almost every demographic available. The Wii is on pace to crush the PS2 in all-time sales, which nobody thought could happen. Cool, huh?

Anyway, how do I know about Nintendo?
Well that's between me and Miyamoto.

@ alxtlvra & Mickeymac- Thanks.

Please, please don't taunt him, you'll only make him come back, angrier the last.
Too late.
I'm going to bed though.
So to all the future comments claiming I'm an idiot, well I'll see you tomorrow.

@x.SuperMario.x
I think Nintendo is holding out on releasing SMRPG just to piss you off

That's just my theory though

I don't even care about SMRPG.
Anyone who knows me knows I have way too much fun with Paper Mario 64 to care about any other Mario related RPG.
I'm on my 12th playthrough of PM64, I think.

But I know Nintendo is holding it back for a reason.
Like I've already said, Nintendo isn't composed of a room full of monkeys throwing darts at a board. They know what they're doing.

And with that, I'm going to bed.

so what you're saying is...

SMRPG 2 Origins: BOWSER BEGINS

coming to soon to a Wii console near you

wii motion plus required
and wii speak
and wii zapper
and wii sports pack
and wii wheel
and 3rd party USB keyboard

correct?

@x.SuperMario.x

Dear G-D man, have yet to finish the one I started when I was nine years old, yet you're on your 12th?!

@AtTheDriveIn92

That actually sounded awesome, until I read the huge list of Wii_____s required.

@Mickeymac
sorry lol, it's required XD
and dude, it's not that hard of a game lol, you can beat it in a week playing a few hours a day lol.

I wouldn't call SMRPG "hardcore" at all, but that's not exactly the point, neither is it the original topic at hand. What happened to the thread overnight?

@ Rexy, SM happened.

@ SM.

If you think Brawl, MP3, SMG etc... are hardcore I'd love to see you play Ninja Gaiden, Half Life, Gears Of War, Metal Gear etc...

Also, is your favourite word ignorant or something?

@DEMON212
Half Life, Gears of War, and Metal Gear (any of them) were all easier for me to complete than getting all 120 stars in Galaxy, and I still haven't gotten every single item in Brawl either.

Ninja Gaiden was pretty hard though!

If we're discussing upper-hardcore titles, mind if I throw in the Devil May Cry series for good measure? That received quite a lot of feedback regarding its generally high difficulty level.

@Rexy

I started out on the third installment in the series, whuch is heralded as one of the hardest games ever made! Thankfully, I purchased the special edition, which thankfully toned the difficulty down, though, that is a bit unusual for a special edition.

Anywho, what was this thread about? Oh yeah, I don't think I'll get Break In, since it turned out to be a billiards game, and I'm not into that sport. The other ones are pretty much guaranteed purchases though.

I'll definitely get Star Parodier and the Ys games at some point.

@At.

Seriously? I can understand MGS, but SMG harder than HL?

Also, I mean Insane GOW. I've yet to meet someone who's been able to beat the boss on insane on his own.

@Rexy: I heard the original American Devil May Cry 3 normal difficulty was the Japanese hard difficulty.

I've played all those games at one time or another.
MSG4 is hardcore, and MP3 is not?
I haven't beaten MSG4 on the highest difficulty, but then I haven't collected all the stars in SMG either.

So what exactly is a hardcore game for the Wii?
I hear a different definition every time that question gets asked.
Right now, I'm expecting, "Wii games can't be hardcore."
But that's just a prediction.

@ Rexy, SM happened.
I do what I can to keep these articles alive.
You can thank me later.

I wasn't meaning that god awful 4. I meant 1.

As not only did I not say 4, but I also didn't say Solid, I'm amazed that you thought I was on about MGS4. Just realised now that I forgot to add Solid.

Hardcore Wii game, erm... Nothing that's been released thus far unless you count ALTTP, Super Met, OOT, SMB. 3 etc...

My prediction was right. So cool when that happens...

Anyway, as much as people talk about MSG4 on forums, anytime I see "Metal Gear", I just assume.
And I'd have to disagree with your interpretation of hardcore.
I'd say a game like Metroid Prime 3 has a solid core fanbase, and isn't widely popular on the casual front.
But with your standards, I don't think you'll ever see a "hardcore" game on the Wii.

Luckily games don't have to be hardcore to be good, so Wii're okay.

As far as I'm concerned, the "core" status for the Wii is starting to decline with the focus to "non-games" (way too often mislablled as casual - that's saved for games that everyone can still play but without being too obvious about it). Even if there aren't as many hardcore titles on the Wii (and I refuse to see any of the four classic SNES titles mentioned to be hardcore either), the least we'd have to do is embrace what we've got and take them on board. I was still content enough with Super Mario Galaxy (and it took me a good month or so to obtain all 120 stars with both Mario and Luigi), and I really hope it won't be the peak in terms of the "core placements" out there.

People who use the term 'hard core gamer' should lay the controller down, take a couple steps back, and go do something else with their lives for awhile.

There's a difference between the soccer mom that plays once a week, and the person that's been playing video games since they were young.

Why do people deny the existence of hardcore gamers?
Especially when Nintendo, Sony, and Microsoft acknowledge the distinct difference between casual and hardcore.
I'll listen to three huge publishers before a random person on the internet any day of the week.

Each console has its own flavor of hardcore, I'd say. PS has FF/MetalGear obsessives, Xbox has Halo/GoW, Nintendo has Mario/Zelda/Metroid. It's only there due to exclusivity deals, 1st-party development, and occasional brand loyalty. Give the people what they want, and make them buy your system to get it. That's a big reason why I've preferred PCs for a while now, but I'm obviously here due to enjoying my Wii.

Oh, topic. ... Still not buying Ys Book.

Man, all this talk about Hardcore and casual make my head spin! I don't even know what hardcore or casual mean, since they seem so ambiguous. I do know that there are games that relatively simple and don't require much personal investment, yet still are enjoyable, and there are ones that are difficult to master and require a large amount of personal investment in order to fully enjoy. I don't know if the Wii is a hardcore console or not - all I do know is, out of every other console available, the Wii has the most games I want. Sure, not every game available is a winner, but that's not unusual. Personally, it's the VC that I have the most interest in. That's why I signed up for this site, so I could talk about VC games. I did not sign up so I would have talk about the hardcore-casual, and the G-D damn console!

Now in the hopes of vering you all back on topic, I'm going to mention that, as I have done many times in the past week, I've changed my mind about Ys, and by that I mean I'm not going to get it. I just don't think I'm going to like it, it's far too simplistic in its overall gameplay that I won't be able to put up with it. I actually had a hard time enjoying the original Zelda, simply due to the lack of a spin attack. While I did eventually get used to it, and I may enjoy Ys for a certain amount of time, but eventually my ability to overlook something's faults is going to run out, and Ys is just too long. I considered Star Ocean: Till the End of Time to be the worst purchase I've ever made, even though I spent almost 50 hours with the game, and indeed for much of that I loved it, but by the end of that time period, I just couldn't get over the fact that I could of spent those 50 hours on a better game. Considering how long RPGs tend to be, as well as the fact that Ys is essentially two games in one, I don't think my enjoyment of the game is going to last till the end.

@ Mickeymac- PM64 only takes me about 12-15 hours.
So when you date back to when I first played it on my N64 in 2001, I've really only played Paper Mario about twice a year.

The funny thing is, I have a guide book for it too. My problem is that I spend hours just screwing around doing nothing of major importance, plus I almost never play it anymore. To be honest, I found this game quite challenging as a child, but having played it recently, completing an area I was stuck on first try, I can say that it isn't really all that hard, I just can't get myself to beat it.

@Mickeymac
You brought up a good point. I tend to buy many rpgs and get bored of them before I finish them nowadays. The problem with rpgs is that they are so long that I can easily get bored of them before I finish them.

It's about stinking time they brought Y's to the table (well, it's almost here.) Now al I gotta do is get a TV in the next couple of weeks. I've been dying to play Y's again forever, and finally I will get to. Even if I have to take my Wii to my friends house just to download the game and save it til I get a TV I will. My appetite fothis game has finally been quenched for a bit, but still can't wait to play it again.

Yeah, I know what you mean, I only managed to beat one RPG, mostly because I get board with 'em. However, even when I get board with them, I still have fond memories of them, even if it wasn't the best one I ever played. That Star Ocean one I mentioned was a bit of a special case - I can barely remember I enjoyed it at all. It's major problem being the simplistic and rather limited combat, which Ys, in my eyes seems to suffer from. I don't think I'll hate it as much as SO. since that game also had a bad story that they don't let you ignore, but considering I'd be choosing between it, Landstalker, Beyond Oasis, Light Crusader, and Startropics, it'd feel like a crime to purchase Ys over any of those.

Oh, and I played a little more of Paper Mario, and my timing has gone straight to hell! It feels harder than ever! Plus, I can't seem to stop myself from screwing around in the towns, and now I just got the bump attack badge, so now I think I'll never finish it!

@Mickeymac: The terms aren't ambiguous at all. 'Hardcore' is a term that jaded gamers who spend an unhealthy amount of their time playing video games came up with to help justify their eschewing the rest of the world and being generally pathetic. Also, don't judge ALL of Star Ocean by what you saw playing Till the End of Time. It was a poor offering compared to 'The Second Story'. I agree full heartedly with you about RPG's being too long these days. I gave 'em up a long time ago for that very reason.

"Also, I mean Insane GOW. I've yet to meet someone who's been able to beat the boss on insane on his own."

Yes, that is the most ridiculously broken boss fight ever. It's "insane," so you can take two or three hits and then die. You can be hiding behind cover in that fight and stray shots from the flying things on the side will totally destroy you (NOTHING you can realistically do about that) in two-thirds of your trials, and Dom's AI turns for the useless in that fight.

There's challenging, and then there's frustration due to careless game design. Can you claim you never aimed at something's head and the bullet just went through it without causing damage? That happens a lot too in GoW. I don't consider that game hardcore on account of that particular bug, as little things like that can make or break your success in an action game. You can glitch your way through that fight, though, which in this case I don't see any dishonor because of it's total brokenness.

Otherwise, Ys . . . FINALLY. I almost tracked down a turbo duo just to play this one game a while back! After waiting over a year of never knowing when the blasted game would come out!!!!!

. . . on second thought, I think I'm going into shock here from the surprise. Hopefully I'll wake up from my coma when it's available for download.

EDIT: For credibility's sake, I have beaten God of War and Chains of Olympus on "God Mode," which are difficult but mostly fair.

@Cally
the boss isn't that hard if you don't tell yourself it's hard

^{^}
So you've done it on "insane," and it wasn't that hard? Did you have a particular strategy?
(note: sarcasm-free)

'Hardcore' is a term that jaded gamers who spend an unhealthy amount of their time playing video games came up with to help justify their eschewing the rest of the world and being generally pathetic.

This fails on so many levels.

@el cabarto

Yeah, that's what people on Amazon said. Sadly, I read their comments after I made my purchase. Thankfully, they made a remake of Second Story on the PSP, so I'll have to check it out once it's localized.

Also, I didn't quite give up on RPGs because it was too long, albeit they are, but after a certain time period, the flaws of a game become too unbearable, and leave me with a bad taste in my mouth, so to speak. I remember I used to love RPGs, back when all I played was Paper Mario and any game that ended with "mon". Then I tried Mega Man X: Command Mission, and while it was fun for a while, by the time I hit the 30 hoour mark, I was sick of it, and I never wanted to play another RPG again. Thankfully, my brother eventually got me to try Kingdom Hearts, and I started get back into RPGs, and I bought quite a few for christmas. Sadly, Star Ocean was among them, and I once again gave up on the genre.

Now, I'm warming up to them again, thanks to some of the people on this site, as well as the fact that I completely forgot Roms were illegal and played games like Breath of Fire II( which I just purchased and can't wait to play), Chrono Trigger, Secret of Evermore, and the crown jewel of the set, Terranigma!

Edit: Thank you SM, you reminded me: You could've said that a little nicer, since that one hit home hard. I can't help it if I can't find anything better to do...though, I could play golf( miniature golf at least), and I've always wanted to tinker with things, though after breaking the calculator simply be replacing its batteries leads me to believe that tinkering with whole appliances isn't exactly smart; I like to draw, but I haven't done that in a while due to all the video games.....where was I going with this?

Personally, I've been called "hardcore" for liking games in almost every genre (except sports), being a completionist, and going after games on their hardest difficulties when I thought the challenge was worthy (and not just some lazy you-take-more-damage crap). I associate hardcore with precision gameplay mechanics. For instance, in a worthy shmup, it may be hard, but also theoretically possible to dodge every killer pixel if you have the skill/reflexes. Or in Zelda's best puzzles, if they aren't completely easy, you tend to find out that the answer was really looking at you the whole time and makes perfect sense.

A Casual gamer, to me, means narrow tastes and giving up on challenging games that they can't legitimately find fault with, and at the same time overly easy to please (shallow, no learning curve or acquired tasted stuff) . . . kinda like any other hobby, really.

Also, what's wrong with eschewing the rest of the world, anyway?

I agree with Cally.
Spending time to master the techniques of a certain game is "hardcore" in a sense.
Whereas, a "casual" gamer isn't likely to spend that kind of time on a video game. More likely it's something they do occasionally.

But you can't deny the fact there is a hardcore audience. Even Nintendo acknowledges the fact hardcore gamers exist.

Thank you everybody for giving me the definition of and destinction between "hardcore gamers" and "casual gamers", but what is a hardcore game and a casual game?

Hardcore: Ikaruga.

Casual: Carnival Games.

I'm serious here, give me a straight answer, since all you're telling me is that hardcore is extremely hard, and casual is a minigame collection, leaving more than half the world electronic entertainment "undefined".

Disregardation again. Carnival Games, and pretty much every other party title on the Wii, is pretty much seen as a non-game. A more precise casual title example would be something like Guitar Hero - welcoming to everyone without being so open about that statement.

Thank you Rexy, that I understand! See, x.SuperMario.x, you could learn a thing or two from her...it is a her, right?

So, as I understand it, a hardcore gamer is essentially an enthusiast in the hobby of video gaming, while a casual gamer is somebod who likes it, but prefers to spend their time on other hobbies. A hardcore game is one that is generally challenging to master, while a casual game is one that that easy enough to pick up and have fun, and is appealing to a broader audience.

One last one, why are non-games fun if they aren't officially considered games? I actually found Carnival games rather challenging, not to mention fun.

So ignoring the fact that it's a game, and calling it a non-game, makes sense?
I didn't know games could be non-games.

So we have casual games, hardcore games, and non-game games?
Riight.
Tell that to the rest of the world, because you're the only one that thinks it.

@ Mickeymac-

I could learn something by taking her opinion, and disregarding mine?
Proven that opinions aren't facts, that doesn't make a whole lot of sense.
The only difference, is my opinion is a popular one, and hers is only known to herself, you, and anyone else that reads the comments on this article.

A game can't be a non-game. Sorry.
That's like saying my car doesn't fit in a particular category, so it's a non-car.

"welcoming to everyone without being so open about that statement."

I agree . . . my definition of casual was on the negative side (though often accurate, I think).

Fighting games: (most players agree on this)

Virtua Fighter=Hardcore--you won't feel the slightest reward out of this thing unless you spend hours in training with a single character.
Dead or Alive=Casual--you feel so awesome pulling off these spectacular moves almost immediately and somehow think skill has something to do with it, until your button-mashing roommate somehow smeared you at it.

Soul Calibur is known for having the perfect balance. Easy to get into, but rewards exploring the nuances of the fighting system. Many games can be played either way, of course, and that distinguishes the player.

That's actually what is said about Shakespeare--it's accessible/entertaining on the surface but has depth also.

It's art in general I think--yes, as an artist myself, I'll stick up for gaming as an art as so many parallels (like this back-and-forth) clearly apply.

I thought there was a catagory for games like Carnival games: Minigame Collections. I thought non-games were things like my word coach, products whos goal isn't necessarily to entertain.

@x.SuperMario.x

I meant you could learn questions from her/him/flongus, besides I wasn't being serious anyways.

@Cally

"Easy to get into, but rewards exploring the nuances of the fighting system. Many games can be played either way, of course, and that distinguishes the player."

I had always thought that was considered hardcore, and your definition to be just plain hard.

"A game can't be a non-game. Sorry."

I also think SM is right about that. Don't know what Carnivore Games is, but then there is simply "shallow." Loose gameplay mechanics that don't reward skill very much. Ever call something "dumb fun" (I think of Wii Sports this way) where it's fun unless you think about what you're doing a little TOO hard?

Mini-game collections are included in "casual games".
There isn't anything hardcore about them, and they don't fall into a non-existent non-game category.

About fighting games...
They're games both casual and hardcore can play.
What's the difference?
Well fighting games are generally easy to play, or "get in to" as Cally put it.
The difference, is a "hardcore" player will put forth the effort to explore different techniques, and master the gameplay.

Take Brawl for example, even though Brawl isn't a fighting game...
Brawl is easy to start playing, right?
Well a "hardcore gamer" will master the move-set of one, or several players, in an effort to reek the benefits of destroying people online.
A "casual gamer" will pick up the game, play with their favorite character, and not really put forth the effort of mastering any technique, rather just play for fun.

Thank you for elaboating on the definition, as well as doing it in a way that makes sense.

I'm here to help.

By the way, it's past midnight here in the US, why are you still up?

I'm on the east coast, it's 4 in the morning. I don't know why, I've been doing this fore the past few weeks now. You think there's something wrong?

God, I'd ask the same of you, SuperMario, but then again, I'm still waiting for an answer from myself.

Too bad VC games don't come out at midnight for us, right?

Edit: Geez, Mickeymac, you too?

The discussions seem kind of split between hardcore games and hardcore gamers.
Games:
Casual=accessibility
Hardcore=depth (rewarding effort)

SM defined the gamers just fine, though. Saying SSBB can basically be both to different kinds of gamers. VF is hardcore, pretty much for hardcore gamers only. Casual fighting fans won't touch it with a twenty-foot pole, or most likely won't call it their favorite fighting game.

I'll play Wii Sports and have fun with it for about fifteen minutes at a time.

He's probably up because I keep asking questions.

Yah, I haven't really been able to get to bed lately, and to be honest, I don't sleep in either. It's really boring this late, too. I mostly just try to post here if can, and read Penny Arcade while I wait for a response. I went to a doctor, he said to stop watching tv and video games at night. I think he's a quack, it didn't help at all.

Well, I'll try to get back on topic, since in my boredom, the thread no longer resembles the original topic. Word of warning from Corbie, apparently Chase H.Q. hasn't aged well, so don't expect rave reviews.

Edit: thanks Cally, I forgot my question needed answering! That's the simplest answer I've gotten all day! And take it from my teachers, I only learn it if it's simple.

I haven't been able to sleep right lately.
My sleep schedule is all screwed up.
I'm not tired at night, but during the day, I can barely stay awake.

Luckily I haven't been working much recently.
And next week I'm going on vacation with my girlfriend.

Edit: After typing this, I just realized Demon212 is going to read this, and accuse me of complaining again....
So I apologize in advance.

alright so let me get this straight
Hardcore = a game that has depth and by mastering it you get all the benefits.
Casual = games that don't take a lot of skill to play and/or master
and Non-Games = Movies, Instruments, Dogs, Carrots, Water, The Sun, A Turkey, Nebraska, The Heart of God?

(Our Town Refrence)

@Mickeymac: I got a cure for your problem. It's called diphenhydramine. You can find it in most OTC cough syrups. Does wonders to break up bouts of insomnia and get your sleep schedule back on track. Don't abuse it though.

Everyones conflicting definition of the 'hard core gamer' just makes me more confident in the accuracy of my own. I honestly don't see how anyone could appreciate being called a 'hard core gamer'. That term can't be a compliment.

Everyone has basically agreed on a definition.
It's a person who puts forth the effort to become somewhat good at a game.

Check the US article VC-R just posted, Damien uses the term hardcore twice.
So you're saying everyone else is wrong, and you're right?
This site acknowledges the term "hardcore", as well as Nintendo, Microsoft, and Sony.
I'll take their word any day over some guy on the internet.

"Everyones conflicting definition of the 'hard core gamer' just makes me more confident in the accuracy of my own. I honestly don't see how anyone could appreciate being called a 'hard core gamer'. That term can't be a compliment."

@ el cabarto

If you worked at a game store and someone said "my favorite game is Wii Fit," would your first recommendation be Final Fantasy Tactics or World of Warcraft?

Let me answer this one

If someone's taken interest in Wii Fit and want to look at other Wii games, then it's fair to build them up slowly and steadily depending on what they appreciated the most about it.

If they liked the rhythm-based aerobics, recommend a fun rhythm action game (most likely Guitar Hero 3 despite the price tag).

If they liked the sports-based balance games, get them looking in the direction of some titles corresponding to the genre in question. So obviously, we're looking at Mario Strikers Charged if the heading becomes a big hit (even though I'm not impressed with the leniancy of the aforementioned title) or Winter Sports: The Ultimate Challenge if the snow balance games are a hit (it would be either that or We Ski... ewww).

The table tilt game corresponds to a simple puzzle title, and the Wii isn't short on those (heck, that was the first genre I started taking seriously). Boom Blox comes to mind here, as does Elebits (to some extent) and Zack & Wiki (also to some extent).

And that's as far as I can probably think for now. Once they try new stuff, they'd think "hey, this is awesome - I wonder what else I can do with this" and so forth.

Bear in mind that my observations were based on watching my aunt demonstrate her copy of the game two weeks ago, so it might be a little sketchy >.>

@el cabarto

Thanks, I rememver that when I go to the pharmacy, I think I'm catching a cold, too.

It didn't quite hit me that Chase HQ is coming today, because now I'm short on cash, gahh!

@Mario: "Check the US article VC-R just posted, Damien uses the term hardcore twice."

Yes, but not the term "hardcore gamer", rather "hardcore fan of this particular game/genre". That's a completely different thing.

So hardcore fans aren't hardcore gamers?
It's not possible to be a "casual gamer" and be a hardcore fan of a certain genre, at the same time.

That's what hardcore gamers are, they have a preference in genre, in which they like to master the technique.

And how can you be a fan of a genre, and not be a gamer?
That's like being a football fan, but never watching nor playing football.
Crazy, I know.

So if I'm a hardcore fan of minigame collections, am I a "hardcore gamer" in your eyes, despite hating all other game genres?

Yes.
There aren't specific genres assigned to "hardcore gamers".
If you're adamant about playing your mini-games, and do your best to master them, then you're a hardcore gamer.

If you only play mini-games occasionally with a friend, you're a casual gamer.

Nobody ever said there were specific genres allocated to the "hardcore" gamer.

That certainly isn't the opinion of the majority of morons out there whining about how the Wii "has no hardcore games, waaah".

The phrase "hardcore gamer" generally means whatever the user needs it to mean to prove his (usually idiotic) point.

@ Rexy

That sounds like a great way to trick some Wii owners into expanding their palettes. I think Zak & Wiki might be kind of hard on them though: "What do you MEAN I have to THINK?!" They might see through the scheme on that one.

I tried to think of two games (Wii Fit and Final Fantasy Tactics) that are so far apart on the spectrum of casual to hardcore in design that I can barely even imagine the same person owning both.

I can't see why people think Wii Fit is a casual game. Those yoga moves whipped me harder than Hyper mode on Metroid Prime 3.

@Cally: "I tried to think of two games (Wii Fit and Final Fantasy Tactics) that are so far apart on the spectrum of casual to hardcore in design that I can barely even imagine the same person owning both."

I own and enjoy both. I know plenty of others who do as well. God forbid people look for entertainment value in games.

I love semantics.

Wouldn't you agree that there's more to dig out of some games than others? I clocked over a hundred hours on a few RPGs (at most) and quite a number on some action/adventure games.

Oh yes, I COULD spend a hundred hours on Wii Sports in one-to-three-hour chunks (a game otherwise fun in moderation), but if I was forced to do that I'd have to be sedated and locked up afterward. My IQ would probably drop.

As for games within the same genre--in the example I've beaten to death--in many editorial reviews I've heard Virtua Fighter as appealing almost entirely to "hardcore" (yes, they use that word) fighters, and according to that crowd, their hours spent learning for the delayed reward is a good payoff. Other fighters are more accessible.

Is it really that hard to tell what Wii owners are complaining about when they want more of something like a new Kid Icarus rather than Wii Music? We don't have to strain ourselves too hard to figure out what the difference is between those games . . . do we?

I would download Y's. It was another one of those videos that, when the TG-CD was actually a current system, I wanted.

@Adamant

"I own and enjoy both. I know plenty of others who do as well. God forbid people look for entertainment value in games."

Wow. Fair enough--I suppose I ought to envision the draw to trying something different, also. Come to think of it, I gave Nintendogs a try after hearing good things about it for that reason.

That aside, would you also dispute the difference in markets (regardless of what they're named) that have been identified by quite a number of gaming journalists so as to leave one market feeling a bit hung out to dry with the Wii, like some people here? Kojima identified "old-style games" as being opposed to Brain Age

Personally, I'm not nearly as bothered or discontent as some, but that's just me.

wow, i heard of the manga/anime but never heard of the game, it looks interesting. I wonder if any of the classic fire emblem games will ever make into the vc.

Still have my tg-16 y's book 1&2 cd complete with box!! it's my copy from the day it launched.