@geox30 Except they are. Valve are revealing the next Half Life game as soon as next month. It releases this year and will be a large AAA game built exclusively for VR in order to push VR gaming forward the same way Valve pushed 3D gaming before.
It's a prequel to Half Life 2 and will feature groundbreaking physics interactions.
@CaPPa Give me a Star Wars VRMMO with full body expressive avatars, space combat, dozens of planets, and physics-based light-saber combat and I'd be set for life, almost.
@RadioHedgeFund You can do all of that in VR, and even make it more social, like tabletop RPGs where some of your friends become living characters on the board.
The one thing VR will lack until some potential far-off brain interface is perfect touch. Haptic gloves will get quite far, but won't be perfect. That being said, you're not touching your friends all the time, are you? You'll lose some touch, but you'll gain more expression, less restriction in activity, and can reach more friends that aren't with you physically.
@RadioHedgeFund It's almost like you're the stereotypical 'old guy who is out of touch'. VR just moves people into a different space. The social aspect remains if people let it, and even amplifies to a degree.
But hey, it's your life. If you want a life that isn't as fun as it could have been for no real reason, that's your choice. I have no idea why someone would always opt for a lesser life though, considering you only get one.
@Grumblevolcano There's no chance of this. Investment in VR is magnitudes higher than Kinect, and there are infinitely more uses both in gaming, entertainment, and outside. Even if perchance, it died, it would be back. VR will always be important to a technologically advanced civilization.
PS5/PSVR2 won't affect what Oculus is doing that much. Oculus are after a much bigger market.
Your example also falls flat, because VR lets you go to a virtual bar and be present in virtual spaces, and have experiences together that feel real, instead of a night out in the real world. I could choose to go to a local, possibly medicore nightclub with some friends, or we could go to a zero gravity night club in VR with giant neon dancing bunnies and a visual spectacle that far surpass reality - with good enough specs+graphics.
Going into VR does not suddenly mean you've lost a human contact. VR is just another space. If everyone was in VR, we'd be just as socially engaging if not more so than in the real world since VR allows you to express yourself better and without the harsh judgements of reality.
So now, what happens when your friends move, or you move? Maybe not by choice. Are you going to avoid VR, or are you going to use it to connect with them again? It's a dilemma that few people will escape from.
@RadioHedgeFund So you list strengths, yet before you struggled to find any? What's with the sudden change?
Again, why is it not the future of gaming? The concerns you have are utterly irrelevant. Asymmetrical local-play enables socially engaging local gameplay, and online gameplay is already covered. MR headsets fix the issue of physical isolation, especially with open-ear headphones. You have zero excuses left now for the social aspect of VR.
Technically, the most social a human being can possibly be while gaming is going to be in VR+AR, because you can connect with people across the world and by your side simultaneously using augmented virtuality - being present in a virtual world with nearby humans overlayed onto it.
FYI, I don't think it's the end-all-be-all future of gaming, I just think that it will be the main way we interface with games (alongside AR) and potentially the most popular form of gaming too.
I would wager that 60% or higher of the gaming market will be VR/AR centric in 15-20 years. Traditional games will likely always exist even in a Matrix-style world, but I would not be at all surprised if they take the back seat once VR reaches a certain threshold.
@RadioHedgeFund No, you do not know what you're talking about. Any person who can't list one strength of VR fails to understand the technology. Your link is hilariously outdated. It's from a year ago, a different time.
Not to mention most of it is bogus due to taking numbers out of context.
@ChromaticDracula Oculus Quest is a wireless headset. You never need any room to enjoy seated games in VR, and there are plenty of those, and just so we're clear, seated games can be incredible considering Astro Bot is right up there with Mario Odyssey. The active games can sometimes be played seated, but otherwise require only enough space to stand around in one spot with a little arm space.
Most people have the space for active VR. The bare minimum space is still going to be enjoyable for most people.
You should probably rethink your attitude once you've understood more about the tech because you have certain misconceptions.
@retro_player_22 Hardcore Oculus Quest users have been streaming from cloud servers with only minor problems, which is great considering it's not officially supported. Motion sickness can only occur at 90Hz+ if artificial movement is induced, otherwise it can be avoided entirely.
Not owning your games is the real kicker here, but a VR future is a promising one considering it's a very social medium, great for rich storytelling, characters, and free-form gameplay, and even great for relaxing games in the case of Astro Bot and Moss.
@RadioHedgeFund Most people I've shown Beat Saber to have a lot more fun than just 5 minutes, and I'm talking a sample size over 1000, plus it has an extremely big and active modding community. RE7 has longevity. Astro Bot has longevity and keeps it fresh from start to finish. Lone Echo / Echo VR has longevity and a great community to boot. Firewall Zero Hour, VRChat, Pavlov - again longevity.
If VR is isolating to those around you, then play asymmetrical games. Keep Talking and Nobody Explodes is a very social game. So is Panoptic, and especially Carly and the Reaperman.
Now that's just local. Online, there is no question that VR is infinitely more social than any other form of online connectivity, and that only increases exponentially with new headset generations. For some people, it's more socially engaging than real life can ever be.
If gaming is not one of it's great applications, then gaming is also not one of the PC's great applications, which starts to invalidate your point because we know how great PCs are for both general life and gaming, just like VR in both cases.
VR has lots of strengths, but it's only those who fail to understand the technology who don't see them.
@Ryu_Niiyama It's not necessarily 3, but probably a prequel to 2. It should shift a million+ systems if it's received well, which would be exceptional growth. I definitely am not expecting it to sell something crazy like 10 million systems. VR still needs another 5 years or so before it can start reaching console-level sale numbers.
@Ryu_Niiyama I'm pretty sure when Valve (likely) reveals a new Half Life game exclusively for VR releasing this year, it will be a Internet-breaking moment. It's not just about a big game, it's about a big franchise, and one that can be considered the most anticipated of, well anything.
@Lone_Beagle Eh, the only people pushing it as the 'next thing' in the immediate sense were the media. All along, the manufactures have been saying this is a 10+ year play, but the media needs it's clicks and has to make up headlines even if they're not correct.
Mobile AR is a completely different space with next to no overlap. Overlap will happen, but only through AR headsets.
@Ryu_Niiyama There are major games on the way, including a Valve game this year. The mainstream was never meant to care about a technology this early on. They certainly didn't for PCs or even game consoles back in 1975.
@carlos82 Motion sickness is helped by comfort options, coupling physical action with movement, high framerates, and techniques like having a fan blowing in your face or eating ginger. Space doesn't do much to help sickness because most of the time, you will be moving artificially regardless of your playspace.
@carlos82 PSVR usually runs at 60 FPS reprojected to 120 FPS. That's not enough to satisfy everyone. You need at least native 90 FPS to stop sickness from being possible outside of artificial movement. That's why PC VR headsets have solved that issue.
Valve Index even has a 144Hz mode and it's smooth as butter.
@RyanSilberman Probably in the same perspective as usual, but now you have a life-sized view/scale of things. Though the best implementation of some kind of Smash Bros VR game would be one where you have an avatar representation of your opponent so you can smash talk them as if they were on your couch next to you.
@retro_player_22 Pretty clear you have zero experience with VR outside of Labo.
If it didn't work well with videogames, why are some of the highest rated games of 2017/2018 VR games? Also explain how most of the ports that VR gets are the definitive way to play the game?
@WiltonRoots No one is saying you need to go buy a headset now, but you seem to be against the core idea of VR to such a point where even a perfect headset in the future will not please you.
What is VR? It's connected human experience. If you dislike the concept of VR, then you ultimately dislike life experiences. The tech has a net improvement across every human life on this planet, and so once it's refined enough and cheap enough and comfortable enough, there shouldn't be anyone actively against it.
It's funny really. You're all about seeing things and experiencing things with people, are you not? I remember you saying something like that. VR is an enabler for that in a big way. What happens when you want to reach someone that you literally cannot be with in real life because of distance/time/cost. You'd absolutely want to meet them in VR using your ideals, because it's the next best way to socialize. Please don't bring up phonecalls/texting/facetime as I hear that argument over and over and it's irrelevant because those are entirely inferior forms of communication.
@WiltonRoots That's a pretty silly argument. You get one trip, or you get infinite trips for the same price using VR. VR cannot live up to the real thing, obviously, but this isn't the way to compare the two.
Hell, the way VR should ideally be used for virtual trips is when you don't have the time or money to go somewhere. If you do, then fine, go there for real. But most people do not have the time or money to go to many trips, events, concerts. What if I could attend a concert every other day with someone who lives across the planet and get all these crazy trippy visuals along with it? In VR, you can get the true intention of the artist conveyed because you can travel into their soundscape.
@johnvboy How I think this will grow is pretty simple. It will adapt and change. There are lots of breakthroughs that will fundamentally change the technology coming to 2nd gen headsets in a few years. Once those are in standalone headsets for the accessible mass market audience, then it will take off easily. I'm willing to bet the VR market will be 5x bigger than the console market in 10 -15 years.
@johnvboy 4 million for a 90+ million userbase. Except you're missing one very vital detail. This is gen 1 technology running on gen 8 consoles. The first generation of consoles never went past a million sales.
VR is mostly within expectations right now, and it can only grow at this point now that games are getting bigger and better, and standalone headsets are releasing.
You determine the success of a VR product right now based not on it's userbase penetration, but on how many units you expected to sell and the user retention rate, which has been doubling each year at least on PC.
@J-Plap 3rd person VR games are something you have to try to see the appeal. It's like playing with an animated puppet. The whole thing feels magical when done right, like in Moss and Astro Bot. It's especially great when you get to interact directly with these characters as a persistent character in the world alongside them.
It can also heighten your emotional state with the character and create greater empathy. Hellblade in VR is a very different experience than it is on a screen because you don't just watch and play Senua through the struggles she goes through; you are suffering at the same time. Also, scale and depth perception is still intact and so you get to see these enormous scary-as-all-hell beasts in Hellblade.
@dew12333 You have almost no experience with VR. It's not right to write off an entire medium just because you played 2 demos. This is like me saying gaming is one giant gimmick that I'll never play again because I played 1-2 Switch and 20 minutes of Farmville.
There are plenty of games that don't require much or even any artificial movement. Not to mention you should be able to get used to that type of movement in the first place, as most people can.
If you long for the day that you don't want a controller in your hands, it's going to require haptic gloves, which means more VR. So you will be using VR it seems, even if you say you won't.
@NoxAeturnus Astro Bot and Beat Saber are great. Beat Saber wouldn't work well on a screen because the harder difficulties will require depth perception to make it work without being frustrating. You also need to move a bit to dodge walls.
Most PSVR games only run at 60 FPS reprojected to 90 FPS. That's likely why you had a few issues with sickness in Beat Saber, as it cannot get you sick at a native 90 FPS. Sickness at 90 FPS only occurs through artificial camera movement or with an incorrect IPD setup.
Ideally you want to be using comfort options in the games you try to help reduce sickness. Over time, you should be able to build up resistance as most people are able to get their VR legs. Those that don't will have to wait for a full cure (which is possible, it requires drowning the vestibular system in white noise), but can still play games that don't move you artificially in the meantime. Plus you have all the uses of the tech outside of just VR games. Huge amount of uses that will be common in general society as the tech gets better.
@NoxAeturnus Curiosity on my side, what have you tried? The right games and apps are critical for getting the right feel for VR. Job Simulator for example is a really bad way to form opinions on what VR is like.
@Antraxx777 Isolation in VR can be fixed very easily. All you need is good enough AR functionality on the same device and it's fixed. Before you say "Well then you have to switch to an AR view and it takes you out of the game" Not true. You can have the real world bleed into a virtual world selectively. If you only want to represent your family members inside a virulent world, the AR cameras only needs to tag for humans as it scans the room. Then you get a full virtual view with your family members inside.
VR is actually the most social technology there is, because you can more easily be your true self in a virtual space and be with other people represented as avatars in a way that will eventually feel just as real as reality. Combine that with the AR functionality above and you could actually be with anyone in the world both physically and virtually all at the same time. IE: Your family is scattered. You visit most of them through VR and your partner is sitting on the couch next to you not using a headset, but they get scanned into the same view as the others.
@aaronsullivan To be honest, almost everyone will be able to use a VR headset that has proper variable focus. At that point, there are no issues left that automatically cause discomfort. You can choose to go into an experience that makes you sick, but you can always avoid those experiences. No one would get sick sitting in a virtual movie theater for example.
Those with disabilities can still often use VR, and infact, may feel more alive in the virtual world than the real one. If you're deaf, you could use haptics to feel sound. If you're blind, you could use spatialized audio cues as your way of experiencing things, including other people. If you have lazy eye, you can treat and possibly even cure it. If you're in a wheelchair, you can feel alive by moving around a virtual world artificially. If you have social anxiety, you can train yourself in VR or feel more at home there.
I mean there's so many avenues for use even in those who you might think would be disqualified from using it. Afterall, VR allows you to rewire your perceptual system, so there's no reason why it should exclude people.
@onex This is his mentality. He always does this. He has nothing to provide to discussions and as you say is a lost cause. No matter what facts you provide him, even with actual sources - he ignores it all and pretends it doesn't exist.
@Matthew010 Lets be honest though. Wishing away VR's existence means you condemn all the future people that would be helped by it, or otherwise have their lives saved by the technology. It's already improving and saving lives, so only the lowest of the low would want to wish it away.
@LuciferOnReddit Sales prove VR is very much alive. PSVR had it's best growth in 2018. Oculus Go exceeded expectations. Oculus Quest is launching soon, and that will sell quite well, easily. Valve Index should sell quite well as it will come with a new Half Life game, which is you know, the most anticipated game franchise of all all time.
VR can only get more popular. There is no possibility of it slowing down, and infact, it will only speed up.
Anyone who has ever tried a good VR game knows it works as it should. This means you have not, which means you haven't properly tried it yet.
@RevampedSpider I wouldn't bother. The guy hates on VR every chance he gets. He pops into every article about VR and starts spamming all sorts of false statements about how it's the worst thing ever.
@electrogeist You. We've talked about this before. You told me that you have never used VR before and have no intention to do so. So in other words, you're lying to everyone here and being a nuisance.
You are what we call a fake gamer. Someone who pretends to like the hobby and likes to spread anti-consumer practices around. In another thread, you also said that lootboxes should be in Nintendo games.
@nintendolie Mario needs the Astro Bot treatment. I have no doubt that Nintendo can do something great with the tech once they've got a better setup going for it.
@sr_388 If you played Skyrim at 90 FPS with teleportation, you'd be fine. Sickness is caused by either high motion-to-photon latency and low framerate or by artificial movement.
@DonSerrot There is no difference. 3D in VR works the same as it does in reality. If people have problems with the 3D specifically, it's because there's some trippy visuals or something similar going on.
You wouldn't put someone in TheWaveVR as their first VR experience for example. But something like Moss will always be fine.
@JayJ PSVR has almost no non-gaming content, so that doesn't exactly let you explore many of the other sides of VR. It also doesn't support proper room-scale. You say you've used PC setups, yet I very much doubt you've spent time in the bigger budget games that really show things off.
This should be easy for you to counteract, surely? Yet I don't see you listing games.
@DonSerrot 3D in VR works for everyone that sees 3D in real life. This is unlike 3DS/3D TVs/3D glasses where plenty of people that can see 3D just fine naturally can't see it using that tech - because those only add depths cues, whereas VR replicates the way our eyes naturally see.
@Ayye-ant VR is an extension to your perceptual system. There's no reason why it can't work for any kind of perspective. There are great 3rd person and top-down VR games out there.
@JayJ My guess is that you've barely even scratched the surface of VR and overestimate how much you've actually tried. I've never known anyone that has delved properly into VR to think it's a gimmick. And I've known thousands of people in this scenario.
To really get the most of VR, you need a high-end system paired with the best games. Not shovelware. Not only indie games. But actual solid games like Lone Echo / Echo VR, Astro Bot.
Even if someone had tried all of that, they've still got a very long way to go before getting a feel for VR. It goes very far beyond gaming in the home.
@KingdomHeartsFan You can feel immersion without VR, but the level of immersion using VR lifts the ceiling. Even an average VR game will always be more immersive than the most immersive non-VR game.
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Re: Nintendo "Has Interest" In NFTs And The Metaverse But Ponders What "Joy" It Can Provide
People need to realize that Nintendo can do this right. Not the NFT stuff, but the metaverse.
Imagine Japan's Nintendo World, but as a 3D virtual world where you can hang out with friends. There. I just sold a lot of people.
Re: Random: Valve Supposedly Made Changes To Half-Life After Playing GoldenEye 007
@geox30 Except they are. Valve are revealing the next Half Life game as soon as next month. It releases this year and will be a large AAA game built exclusively for VR in order to push VR gaming forward the same way Valve pushed 3D gaming before.
It's a prequel to Half Life 2 and will feature groundbreaking physics interactions.
Re: Miyamoto Believes Nintendo Have Not Fallen Behind With VR
@HalBailman Such sweet ignorance. Tell me, Hal. Do you get every one of your predictions wrong or just the one I happened to stumble across?
Re: Miyamoto Believes Nintendo Have Not Fallen Behind With VR
@CaPPa Give me a Star Wars VRMMO with full body expressive avatars, space combat, dozens of planets, and physics-based light-saber combat and I'd be set for life, almost.
Re: Miyamoto Believes Nintendo Have Not Fallen Behind With VR
@RadioHedgeFund You can do all of that in VR, and even make it more social, like tabletop RPGs where some of your friends become living characters on the board.
The one thing VR will lack until some potential far-off brain interface is perfect touch. Haptic gloves will get quite far, but won't be perfect. That being said, you're not touching your friends all the time, are you? You'll lose some touch, but you'll gain more expression, less restriction in activity, and can reach more friends that aren't with you physically.
Re: Miyamoto Believes Nintendo Have Not Fallen Behind With VR
@RadioHedgeFund It's almost like you're the stereotypical 'old guy who is out of touch'. VR just moves people into a different space. The social aspect remains if people let it, and even amplifies to a degree.
But hey, it's your life. If you want a life that isn't as fun as it could have been for no real reason, that's your choice. I have no idea why someone would always opt for a lesser life though, considering you only get one.
Re: Miyamoto Believes Nintendo Have Not Fallen Behind With VR
@Grumblevolcano There's no chance of this. Investment in VR is magnitudes higher than Kinect, and there are infinitely more uses both in gaming, entertainment, and outside. Even if perchance, it died, it would be back. VR will always be important to a technologically advanced civilization.
PS5/PSVR2 won't affect what Oculus is doing that much. Oculus are after a much bigger market.
Re: Miyamoto Believes Nintendo Have Not Fallen Behind With VR
@RadioHedgeFund I think you misunderstand. You can put on an MR headset and someone right next to you could just be tapping away at their phone or reading a book, yet you could see them, whilst still being immersed in VR. This is what I mean: https://gfycat.com/achingrepentantleafhopper-virtual-reality-oculus-connect-htc-vive-pro
Your example also falls flat, because VR lets you go to a virtual bar and be present in virtual spaces, and have experiences together that feel real, instead of a night out in the real world. I could choose to go to a local, possibly medicore nightclub with some friends, or we could go to a zero gravity night club in VR with giant neon dancing bunnies and a visual spectacle that far surpass reality - with good enough specs+graphics.
Going into VR does not suddenly mean you've lost a human contact. VR is just another space. If everyone was in VR, we'd be just as socially engaging if not more so than in the real world since VR allows you to express yourself better and without the harsh judgements of reality.
So now, what happens when your friends move, or you move? Maybe not by choice. Are you going to avoid VR, or are you going to use it to connect with them again? It's a dilemma that few people will escape from.
Re: Miyamoto Believes Nintendo Have Not Fallen Behind With VR
@RadioHedgeFund So you list strengths, yet before you struggled to find any? What's with the sudden change?
Again, why is it not the future of gaming? The concerns you have are utterly irrelevant. Asymmetrical local-play enables socially engaging local gameplay, and online gameplay is already covered. MR headsets fix the issue of physical isolation, especially with open-ear headphones. You have zero excuses left now for the social aspect of VR.
Technically, the most social a human being can possibly be while gaming is going to be in VR+AR, because you can connect with people across the world and by your side simultaneously using augmented virtuality - being present in a virtual world with nearby humans overlayed onto it.
FYI, I don't think it's the end-all-be-all future of gaming, I just think that it will be the main way we interface with games (alongside AR) and potentially the most popular form of gaming too.
I would wager that 60% or higher of the gaming market will be VR/AR centric in 15-20 years. Traditional games will likely always exist even in a Matrix-style world, but I would not be at all surprised if they take the back seat once VR reaches a certain threshold.
Re: Miyamoto Believes Nintendo Have Not Fallen Behind With VR
@RadioHedgeFund No, you do not know what you're talking about. Any person who can't list one strength of VR fails to understand the technology. Your link is hilariously outdated. It's from a year ago, a different time.
Not to mention most of it is bogus due to taking numbers out of context.
Re: Miyamoto Believes Nintendo Have Not Fallen Behind With VR
@ChromaticDracula Oculus Quest is a wireless headset. You never need any room to enjoy seated games in VR, and there are plenty of those, and just so we're clear, seated games can be incredible considering Astro Bot is right up there with Mario Odyssey. The active games can sometimes be played seated, but otherwise require only enough space to stand around in one spot with a little arm space.
Most people have the space for active VR. The bare minimum space is still going to be enjoyable for most people.
You should probably rethink your attitude once you've understood more about the tech because you have certain misconceptions.
Re: Miyamoto Believes Nintendo Have Not Fallen Behind With VR
@retro_player_22 Hardcore Oculus Quest users have been streaming from cloud servers with only minor problems, which is great considering it's not officially supported. Motion sickness can only occur at 90Hz+ if artificial movement is induced, otherwise it can be avoided entirely.
Not owning your games is the real kicker here, but a VR future is a promising one considering it's a very social medium, great for rich storytelling, characters, and free-form gameplay, and even great for relaxing games in the case of Astro Bot and Moss.
Re: Miyamoto Believes Nintendo Have Not Fallen Behind With VR
@RadioHedgeFund Most people I've shown Beat Saber to have a lot more fun than just 5 minutes, and I'm talking a sample size over 1000, plus it has an extremely big and active modding community. RE7 has longevity. Astro Bot has longevity and keeps it fresh from start to finish. Lone Echo / Echo VR has longevity and a great community to boot. Firewall Zero Hour, VRChat, Pavlov - again longevity.
If VR is isolating to those around you, then play asymmetrical games. Keep Talking and Nobody Explodes is a very social game. So is Panoptic, and especially Carly and the Reaperman.
Now that's just local. Online, there is no question that VR is infinitely more social than any other form of online connectivity, and that only increases exponentially with new headset generations. For some people, it's more socially engaging than real life can ever be.
The best thing is when we get MR headsets that can scan nearby people into your VR experience: https://gfycat.com/achingrepentantleafhopper-virtual-reality-oculus-connect-htc-vive-pro
If gaming is not one of it's great applications, then gaming is also not one of the PC's great applications, which starts to invalidate your point because we know how great PCs are for both general life and gaming, just like VR in both cases.
VR has lots of strengths, but it's only those who fail to understand the technology who don't see them.
Re: Miyamoto Believes Nintendo Have Not Fallen Behind With VR
@Ryu_Niiyama It's not necessarily 3, but probably a prequel to 2. It should shift a million+ systems if it's received well, which would be exceptional growth. I definitely am not expecting it to sell something crazy like 10 million systems. VR still needs another 5 years or so before it can start reaching console-level sale numbers.
Re: Miyamoto Believes Nintendo Have Not Fallen Behind With VR
@Ryu_Niiyama I'm pretty sure when Valve (likely) reveals a new Half Life game exclusively for VR releasing this year, it will be a Internet-breaking moment. It's not just about a big game, it's about a big franchise, and one that can be considered the most anticipated of, well anything.
Re: Miyamoto Believes Nintendo Have Not Fallen Behind With VR
@Lone_Beagle Eh, the only people pushing it as the 'next thing' in the immediate sense were the media. All along, the manufactures have been saying this is a 10+ year play, but the media needs it's clicks and has to make up headlines even if they're not correct.
Mobile AR is a completely different space with next to no overlap. Overlap will happen, but only through AR headsets.
Re: Miyamoto Believes Nintendo Have Not Fallen Behind With VR
@Ryu_Niiyama There are major games on the way, including a Valve game this year. The mainstream was never meant to care about a technology this early on. They certainly didn't for PCs or even game consoles back in 1975.
Re: Miyamoto Believes Nintendo Have Not Fallen Behind With VR
@carlos82 Motion sickness is helped by comfort options, coupling physical action with movement, high framerates, and techniques like having a fan blowing in your face or eating ginger. Space doesn't do much to help sickness because most of the time, you will be moving artificially regardless of your playspace.
Re: Miyamoto Believes Nintendo Have Not Fallen Behind With VR
@carlos82 PSVR usually runs at 60 FPS reprojected to 120 FPS. That's not enough to satisfy everyone. You need at least native 90 FPS to stop sickness from being possible outside of artificial movement. That's why PC VR headsets have solved that issue.
Valve Index even has a 144Hz mode and it's smooth as butter.
Re: Today's Smash Bros. Ultimate Update Adds Labo VR Support
@RyanSilberman Probably in the same perspective as usual, but now you have a life-sized view/scale of things. Though the best implementation of some kind of Smash Bros VR game would be one where you have an avatar representation of your opponent so you can smash talk them as if they were on your couch next to you.
Re: Random: Leave Cardboard Behind With This 3D-Printed Labo VR Headset
@retro_player_22 Pretty clear you have zero experience with VR outside of Labo.
If it didn't work well with videogames, why are some of the highest rated games of 2017/2018 VR games? Also explain how most of the ports that VR gets are the definitive way to play the game?
Re: Video: Digital Foundry Takes A Technical Look At Zelda And Mario Odyssey In VR
@WiltonRoots No one is saying you need to go buy a headset now, but you seem to be against the core idea of VR to such a point where even a perfect headset in the future will not please you.
What is VR? It's connected human experience. If you dislike the concept of VR, then you ultimately dislike life experiences. The tech has a net improvement across every human life on this planet, and so once it's refined enough and cheap enough and comfortable enough, there shouldn't be anyone actively against it.
It's funny really. You're all about seeing things and experiencing things with people, are you not? I remember you saying something like that. VR is an enabler for that in a big way. What happens when you want to reach someone that you literally cannot be with in real life because of distance/time/cost. You'd absolutely want to meet them in VR using your ideals, because it's the next best way to socialize. Please don't bring up phonecalls/texting/facetime as I hear that argument over and over and it's irrelevant because those are entirely inferior forms of communication.
Re: Video: Digital Foundry Takes A Technical Look At Zelda And Mario Odyssey In VR
@WiltonRoots That's a pretty silly argument. You get one trip, or you get infinite trips for the same price using VR. VR cannot live up to the real thing, obviously, but this isn't the way to compare the two.
Hell, the way VR should ideally be used for virtual trips is when you don't have the time or money to go somewhere. If you do, then fine, go there for real. But most people do not have the time or money to go to many trips, events, concerts. What if I could attend a concert every other day with someone who lives across the planet and get all these crazy trippy visuals along with it? In VR, you can get the true intention of the artist conveyed because you can travel into their soundscape.
Re: Video: Digital Foundry Takes A Technical Look At Zelda And Mario Odyssey In VR
@johnvboy What system did he even buy? Do you know what games he got for it?
Re: Video: Digital Foundry Takes A Technical Look At Zelda And Mario Odyssey In VR
@johnvboy How I think this will grow is pretty simple. It will adapt and change. There are lots of breakthroughs that will fundamentally change the technology coming to 2nd gen headsets in a few years. Once those are in standalone headsets for the accessible mass market audience, then it will take off easily. I'm willing to bet the VR market will be 5x bigger than the console market in 10 -15 years.
Re: Video: Digital Foundry Takes A Technical Look At Zelda And Mario Odyssey In VR
@Braok There isn't VR support (yet) though. It's just stereoscopic 3D without head tracking.
Re: Video: Digital Foundry Takes A Technical Look At Zelda And Mario Odyssey In VR
@johnvboy 4 million for a 90+ million userbase. Except you're missing one very vital detail. This is gen 1 technology running on gen 8 consoles. The first generation of consoles never went past a million sales.
VR is mostly within expectations right now, and it can only grow at this point now that games are getting bigger and better, and standalone headsets are releasing.
You determine the success of a VR product right now based not on it's userbase penetration, but on how many units you expected to sell and the user retention rate, which has been doubling each year at least on PC.
Re: Video: Digital Foundry Takes A Technical Look At Zelda And Mario Odyssey In VR
@J-Plap 3rd person VR games are something you have to try to see the appeal. It's like playing with an animated puppet. The whole thing feels magical when done right, like in Moss and Astro Bot. It's especially great when you get to interact directly with these characters as a persistent character in the world alongside them.
It can also heighten your emotional state with the character and create greater empathy. Hellblade in VR is a very different experience than it is on a screen because you don't just watch and play Senua through the struggles she goes through; you are suffering at the same time. Also, scale and depth perception is still intact and so you get to see these enormous scary-as-all-hell beasts in Hellblade.
Re: Random: Experience The Legend Of Zelda: Breath Of The Wild With PlayStation VR
@dew12333 Right, but it's an uninformed opinion that would almost certainly change had you had the right experience.
Re: Random: Experience The Legend Of Zelda: Breath Of The Wild With PlayStation VR
@dew12333 You have almost no experience with VR. It's not right to write off an entire medium just because you played 2 demos. This is like me saying gaming is one giant gimmick that I'll never play again because I played 1-2 Switch and 20 minutes of Farmville.
There are plenty of games that don't require much or even any artificial movement. Not to mention you should be able to get used to that type of movement in the first place, as most people can.
If you long for the day that you don't want a controller in your hands, it's going to require haptic gloves, which means more VR. So you will be using VR it seems, even if you say you won't.
Re: Random: Experience The Legend Of Zelda: Breath Of The Wild With PlayStation VR
@NoxAeturnus Astro Bot and Beat Saber are great. Beat Saber wouldn't work well on a screen because the harder difficulties will require depth perception to make it work without being frustrating. You also need to move a bit to dodge walls.
Most PSVR games only run at 60 FPS reprojected to 90 FPS. That's likely why you had a few issues with sickness in Beat Saber, as it cannot get you sick at a native 90 FPS. Sickness at 90 FPS only occurs through artificial camera movement or with an incorrect IPD setup.
Ideally you want to be using comfort options in the games you try to help reduce sickness. Over time, you should be able to build up resistance as most people are able to get their VR legs. Those that don't will have to wait for a full cure (which is possible, it requires drowning the vestibular system in white noise), but can still play games that don't move you artificially in the meantime. Plus you have all the uses of the tech outside of just VR games. Huge amount of uses that will be common in general society as the tech gets better.
Re: Random: Experience The Legend Of Zelda: Breath Of The Wild With PlayStation VR
@NoxAeturnus Curiosity on my side, what have you tried? The right games and apps are critical for getting the right feel for VR. Job Simulator for example is a really bad way to form opinions on what VR is like.
Re: Random: Experience The Legend Of Zelda: Breath Of The Wild With PlayStation VR
@Antraxx777 Isolation in VR can be fixed very easily. All you need is good enough AR functionality on the same device and it's fixed. Before you say "Well then you have to switch to an AR view and it takes you out of the game" Not true. You can have the real world bleed into a virtual world selectively. If you only want to represent your family members inside a virulent world, the AR cameras only needs to tag for humans as it scans the room. Then you get a full virtual view with your family members inside.
VR is actually the most social technology there is, because you can more easily be your true self in a virtual space and be with other people represented as avatars in a way that will eventually feel just as real as reality. Combine that with the AR functionality above and you could actually be with anyone in the world both physically and virtually all at the same time. IE: Your family is scattered. You visit most of them through VR and your partner is sitting on the couch next to you not using a headset, but they get scanned into the same view as the others.
Re: Random: Experience The Legend Of Zelda: Breath Of The Wild With PlayStation VR
@aaronsullivan To be honest, almost everyone will be able to use a VR headset that has proper variable focus. At that point, there are no issues left that automatically cause discomfort. You can choose to go into an experience that makes you sick, but you can always avoid those experiences. No one would get sick sitting in a virtual movie theater for example.
Those with disabilities can still often use VR, and infact, may feel more alive in the virtual world than the real one. If you're deaf, you could use haptics to feel sound. If you're blind, you could use spatialized audio cues as your way of experiencing things, including other people. If you have lazy eye, you can treat and possibly even cure it. If you're in a wheelchair, you can feel alive by moving around a virtual world artificially. If you have social anxiety, you can train yourself in VR or feel more at home there.
I mean there's so many avenues for use even in those who you might think would be disqualified from using it. Afterall, VR allows you to rewire your perceptual system, so there's no reason why it should exclude people.
Re: Random: Experience The Legend Of Zelda: Breath Of The Wild With PlayStation VR
@onex This is his mentality. He always does this. He has nothing to provide to discussions and as you say is a lost cause. No matter what facts you provide him, even with actual sources - he ignores it all and pretends it doesn't exist.
Re: Hands On: Legend Of Zelda: Breath Of The Wild VR Made Us Want To Puke
@Matthew010 Lets be honest though. Wishing away VR's existence means you condemn all the future people that would be helped by it, or otherwise have their lives saved by the technology. It's already improving and saving lives, so only the lowest of the low would want to wish it away.
Re: Hands On: Legend Of Zelda: Breath Of The Wild VR Made Us Want To Puke
@electrogeist You do not tell me to buzz off. Who do you think I am? Some kind of buzzer? Yeah right.
Also, you did say that you've never tried VR before, so don't try and turn this around.
Re: Random: Experience The Legend Of Zelda: Breath Of The Wild With PlayStation VR
@LuciferOnReddit Sales prove VR is very much alive. PSVR had it's best growth in 2018. Oculus Go exceeded expectations. Oculus Quest is launching soon, and that will sell quite well, easily. Valve Index should sell quite well as it will come with a new Half Life game, which is you know, the most anticipated game franchise of all all time.
VR can only get more popular. There is no possibility of it slowing down, and infact, it will only speed up.
Anyone who has ever tried a good VR game knows it works as it should. This means you have not, which means you haven't properly tried it yet.
Re: Random: Experience The Legend Of Zelda: Breath Of The Wild With PlayStation VR
@RevampedSpider I wouldn't bother. The guy hates on VR every chance he gets. He pops into every article about VR and starts spamming all sorts of false statements about how it's the worst thing ever.
Re: Hands On: Legend Of Zelda: Breath Of The Wild VR Made Us Want To Puke
@electrogeist You. We've talked about this before. You told me that you have never used VR before and have no intention to do so. So in other words, you're lying to everyone here and being a nuisance.
You are what we call a fake gamer. Someone who pretends to like the hobby and likes to spread anti-consumer practices around. In another thread, you also said that lootboxes should be in Nintendo games.
Re: Hands On: Legend Of Zelda: Breath Of The Wild VR Made Us Want To Puke
@CairiB You can still use VR, but it needs to be 90 FPS and tied to your body movement. If you achieve those 2 requirements, you'll be fine.
Re: Hands On: Legend Of Zelda: Breath Of The Wild VR Made Us Want To Puke
@WOLF13 The guy already said in another thread that he's never tried VR before. Just some anti-consumer fake gamer whose opinion means nothing.
Re: Hands On: Super Mario Odyssey VR - A Non-Essential But Pleasant Return Trip
@nintendolie Mario needs the Astro Bot treatment. I have no doubt that Nintendo can do something great with the tech once they've got a better setup going for it.
Re: Hands On: Legend Of Zelda: Breath Of The Wild VR Made Us Want To Puke
@sr_388 If you played Skyrim at 90 FPS with teleportation, you'd be fine. Sickness is caused by either high motion-to-photon latency and low framerate or by artificial movement.
Re: Hands On: Legend Of Zelda: Breath Of The Wild VR Made Us Want To Puke
@DonSerrot There is no difference. 3D in VR works the same as it does in reality. If people have problems with the 3D specifically, it's because there's some trippy visuals or something similar going on.
You wouldn't put someone in TheWaveVR as their first VR experience for example. But something like Moss will always be fine.
Re: Review: Nintendo Labo Toy-Con 04: VR Kit - Entry-Level VR With Some Trademark Nintendo Charm And Polish
@JayJ PSVR has almost no non-gaming content, so that doesn't exactly let you explore many of the other sides of VR. It also doesn't support proper room-scale. You say you've used PC setups, yet I very much doubt you've spent time in the bigger budget games that really show things off.
This should be easy for you to counteract, surely? Yet I don't see you listing games.
Re: Hands On: Legend Of Zelda: Breath Of The Wild VR Made Us Want To Puke
@DonSerrot 3D in VR works for everyone that sees 3D in real life. This is unlike 3DS/3D TVs/3D glasses where plenty of people that can see 3D just fine naturally can't see it using that tech - because those only add depths cues, whereas VR replicates the way our eyes naturally see.
Re: Hands On: Legend Of Zelda: Breath Of The Wild VR Made Us Want To Puke
@Ayye-ant VR is an extension to your perceptual system. There's no reason why it can't work for any kind of perspective. There are great 3rd person and top-down VR games out there.
Re: Review: Nintendo Labo Toy-Con 04: VR Kit - Entry-Level VR With Some Trademark Nintendo Charm And Polish
@JayJ My guess is that you've barely even scratched the surface of VR and overestimate how much you've actually tried. I've never known anyone that has delved properly into VR to think it's a gimmick. And I've known thousands of people in this scenario.
To really get the most of VR, you need a high-end system paired with the best games. Not shovelware. Not only indie games. But actual solid games like Lone Echo / Echo VR, Astro Bot.
Even if someone had tried all of that, they've still got a very long way to go before getting a feel for VR. It goes very far beyond gaming in the home.
Re: Give Your Labo VR Kit A Zelda Makeover In Time For Breath Of The Wild VR
@KingdomHeartsFan You can feel immersion without VR, but the level of immersion using VR lifts the ceiling. Even an average VR game will always be more immersive than the most immersive non-VR game.