Topic: The Legend of Zelda: Breath of the Wild

Regretfully I've finished it (Wii).

There are TWO love triangles. TWO.

This game honestly doesn't deserve a spoiler tag in my eyes. And I hate spoilers for everything. That's how bad I feel it is.

Xenoblade's entire story is nothing but contrivance, honestly. Just give me a break about it's 'themes.' You know what it's 'themes' are? Being the most concentrated, trite version of every anime story ever.

Shulk is an utterly boring anime protagonist who has to go through the thrilling character arcs of 'getting stronger,' 'wielding a special power,' and 'creating contrivances for the sake of the plot by not telling his party members about his premonitions.'

I could get liking Xenoblade's story ironically if it wasn't such a damnably long slog of a game. The only way I can explain its cult appeal is the group of, presumably, younger children who 1: were invested in the late-era Wii scene and 2: had little prior exposure to anime or JRPGs, the better to be amazed by XC Wii.

This is the last thing I'll say about it: I hope to God that the Zelda team's new year's resolution is making sure Zelda stays as far away from anime tropes as it can.

I totally wouldn't mind Zelda U taking some things from Xenoblade! Like the huge expansive world. Not the meaningless sidequests though. If they were gonna borrow that, I'd prefer the XBCX version, where they actually add to character development of the side characters.

Ah yes, the "Haru defense" as it's widely known.

This was assuredly drawn by an adult:

My main concession to your argument is that I haven't watched that much anime to relate to your "trite"-rampage. That said, I've played a good number of JRPGs to note whether or not these themes have been overplayed. Sure, the antagonist is weak. Say what you want about Shulk, but I find the foundation of his character appealing—even if it isn't drawn out as much as I'd like. A sensitive soul that goes on a vengeful streak, just to find that his perception was wrong. Overdone? Possibly, but the foundation of his character is something I wish was a more prevalent archetype. That said, a classic isn't noted upon how many tropes it strays away from. Star Wars uses a ton of tropes, but that doesn't detract it from its appeal to even the well-read. Madame Bovary certainly isn't the only book of its time for the protagonist to be a woman who leaves her husband. It isn't the newness that makes a classic a classic, but how its told. And I find nothing contrived by the overall story. For the universe this story is built within, the story's focus flows well, hitting upon important ideas—even if they're overplayed in other mediums.

Another concession I'll give is that I haven't finished the game, though I am nearly done and can't imagine my position to change—unless the ending is utterly terrible. But I'll have to be the judge of that

As for Zelda staying or going for "anime tropes"... I just wanted a more fleshed-out story. The game has always been focused on gameplay, and while that's what makes it Zelda, i could use more fleshing out. More lore. More character dev. Will that happen? Unlikely, but a guy can dream.

@Haru17: so you weren't really feeling it?

I know I said I was done... but you all know by now that I don't have total self-control.

And Shulk is a prevalent archetype—ridiculously so. Shulk is Simone is Naruto is Ryuko is Ichigo is Luffy is Renton. They all want to get stronger, to protect their friends and blah blah blaaah. And, if we're getting picky here, Shulk's voice actor never conveyed him being angry. He was always just yelling in combat and talking calmly out of combat.

Yes, but—importantly—Star Wars is dumb. A quick-paced 2+ hour movie can take a lot of liberties that a 100 hour JRPG utterly can not. Moreover, Star Wars has a lot of humor and clever scene transitions that Xenoblade utterly does not.

@Haiassai: I was planning on saying something like this, but you said it way better than I would have. But the short version is that just because something has been done before, it doesn't mean that it's bad. Humans having been telling stories for millennia; everything has already been told millions of times.

Bikini Zelda and Bikini Impa. Let's make it happen, Nintendo!

Once again, you're jumping mediums. I mean if I were to compare it to the mediums I watch/read, that archetype is hardly used at all.

Your take on Star Wars still does not detract from my point. My stance on Madame Bovary still stands. Or take Disney's "Frozen" v. "Tangled." "Frozen," while the more generally popular film and is the epitome of a popular reverse trope film, the majority of more well-versed viewers/readers are into the latter because it's a better story. It may use repeated tropes, but it still is the better story.

If you want more hipster examples, I can give it to you, but the idea still stays. I mean, we are on a thread about a game that started with the biggest fantasy tropes ever.

I know when it comes to music I'd be a hypocrite and talk about musicians like Hans Zimmer, every pop artist, etc. plays on the same tropes ever. But when I get off my high horse, I will admit: a good story/song/whatever is a good story/song/whatever. We may desire to see new frontiers of said art, but that shouldn't affect our perception. Now, if artists PLAY upon tropes for capitalistic reasons, that's a different story—but who are we to cast the first stone?

What? Half of your post is patently ridiculous!

For one, jumping from JRPGs to Japanese anime isn't much of a jump at all—it's practically the same subculture.

And then on—nothing can be at all appreciable if it's just parroting tropes or things that have been done before. Xenoblade itself is an example of that, if not narratively, but gameplay-wise. It's an open world JRPG on Wii. Can't get much more hipster than that.

If we're not seeing any new things then there's no point in buying anything new.

*looks up "patently"*

Haru, you're always teaching me new words! But I digress, @Haiassai's post is not ridiculous. The notion that art should never repeat itself in order to be good is an arguable opinion. Almost every piece of music uses harmonic progressions that end in V - I, but that doesn't devalue the worth of Beethoven's symphonies, because a V - I cadence is essential part of making a phrase sound like it's ending nicely. A damsel-in-distress is such a common tool used in video games, but who can blame developers? It's provides a more immediate and understandable motivation than any other kind of setting (especially for male players) because we all feel the instinct to help someone in need. It requires no explanation of what it is or what the surrounding circumstances are, so it's great for games you're not supposed to invest a whole lot of time getting into it.

Sure, things get repeated over and over when you strip the exterior away, but each story is told by a different writer or team of writers, and they all have their own little style and uniqueness to them. That's how I feel anyway. To me, most stories don't seem like they're the same until I analyse them further, and start making comparisons.

It's releasing on the last day in December!!! Hype!!!!

You mean repetition?

You're talking about... repetition?

You are talking about repetition, right?

But seriously games (or any visual, narrative medium, really) to music is a much larger jump than JRPGs to anime. Repetition is inherent to music, or at least most music. It doesn't have to be for games, especially not narratively.

A damsel-in-distress is such a common tool used in video games, but who can blame developers?

...I can.

I-I can!

I... can?

Not that that was one of my criticisms of XBWii. If I had a particular feminist criticism to level at it, it would be that the female characters never get to do anything (because Shulk is a big enough of a Mary Sue for all of them).

It's provides a more immediate and understandable motivation than any other kind of setting (especially for male players) because we all feel the instinct to help someone in need. It requires no explanation of what it is or what the surrounding circumstances are, so it's great for games you're not supposed to invest a whole lot of time getting into it.

Wat? Y dis nonsense, tho? It's an RPG, not Super Mah-Ri-Oh.

Sure, things get repeated over and over when you strip the exterior away, but each story is told by a different writer or team of writers, and they all have their own little style and uniqueness to them. That's how I feel anyway. To me, most stories don't seem like they're the same until I analyse them further, and start making comparisons.

I'm not talking about repetition in the reductive, 'look how smart I am I took eighth grade english,' Joseph Campbell sense. Rather, I mean that when something is so textbook and utterly typical with its tropes it becomes boring to people like me. Xenoblade's habit of spoiling itself really, really didn't help in that respect.

One of my favorite stories (I bring it up a lot) is Twilight Princess. In Twilight Princess the destined hero (a white guy) defeats the evil, despotic usurper with the help of a magical sword to restore peace to the land (every trope ever). That game is kept narratively interesting by its grim visual and auditory aesthetic, clever scene direction, and one standout character. It doesn't take that much to set yourself apart.

StrawHaru has a point. There is much praise for Xenoblade's story, and any of it involving originality is mostly a lie. At times it's kinda like Final Fantasy X except far less embarrassing.

But it does amuse me since my opinion of its story is in fact exactly the same as Twilight Princess' gameplay. Sacrificing all originality and focusing more on just being good. Actually confirmed in both cases considering Twilight Princess was supposed to be OOT2 essentially, and Xenoblade was made specifically to stop focusing on story to such a ludicrous degree as much after Xenosaga failed.

And also to be fair, I do not want Zelda to be like Xenoblade in a story-like way. I don't think those two things would go together.

StrawHaru?

And gameplay in sequels is almost always similar. The only time it really differs is when you get a new developer, ala new Tomb Raider or Battlefront (which are both reboots, which are rare).

http://nintendoenthusiast.com/news/rumor-nintendo-preparing-n...
Do you guys think this is legit?

@Nintendriat: I'll believe it when I see it. It would be very out-of-character of Nintendo to do a 'hype-event' specifically for one game, they're not part of this AAA hype milking train that Square-Enix have perfected. When we see Zelda U next, it would/should be in the next Direct, which would/should be in January. It's all just speculation, and that trailer does sound fanciful and again not what I'd expect them to do to showcase the game, they've got to give us a flipping title for the game as a priority.

Not necessarily a hype event @TheLastLugia. It looks to be more an event that seeks to bring family together, with the original children who played The Legend of Zelda now being adults with families of their own. The video in question has the appearance of a father passing a torch to his younger daughter as she struggles with finding a Link outfit to make for herself. She later on receives one from her father.

We (Gamer Professionals) are actually the original source and our report is here: http://gamerpros.co/rumor-nintendo-supposedly-preparing-huge-...

Make of it what you will, that interpretation is yours and yours alone.