But why not expand upon that? Why not have towns that have different kinds of Zoras. Towns that have friendly Gorons and xenophobic Gorons? Granted, I haven't read through all 80+ pages of this thread, but the common thought throughout people I've talked to is that this will probably take place after SS. Whether or not there is a Hyrule Castle, why not have differing Hylians? Or if it does take place before the unification of Hyrule I'm curious to see if there are Hylian towns that have issues with one another (I haven't read any of the apocryphal comics, so I don't know if that is a thing or not). I guess where I'm getting at is that I'd love for this game to really expand upon the lore of Hyrule. It doesn't have to be in the foreground of the game, but... they have the hardware to do it.
Right, that's what I was trying to get at. It'd be great if Hyrule actually had it's own culture and politics rather than being your kind of generic shell of a medieval fantasy world that's in place purely to serve the story. The very best video game worlds feel like they already existed and you just happen to be passing through them.
I don't disagree but like many things, it comes down to "will it be done well?" It seems like even when they try to have more complex storytelling in their games, it's usually almost by accident or without thinking much about it? Like I think if they really focused so much on that, it might go horribly wrong.
It's not like Twilight Princess was exactly like its first trailer presented it.
What did you expect? A trailer is a linear piece of video choreographed to music, designed to make people excited. Basically everything in that trailer was in the game and it wasn't deceptive (it was just a bunch of gameplay shots, anyway).
Right, that's what I was trying to get at. It'd be great if Hyrule actually had it's own culture and politics rather than being your kind of generic shell of a medieval fantasy world that's in place purely to serve the story. The very best video game worlds feel like they already existed and you just happen to be passing through them.
Yaaahs! I have an entire head canon Zelda story where the gorons and zoras break out into a tribal war with the smaller Hylian town caught in the middle. I really want the different iconic races of Hyrule to be more fleshed out, like the races in Mass Effect. I loved how in Majora's Mask there was trade between the different tribes (whereas everyone in Ocarina of time but the postman was basically fixed in their race's town). Stuff like the zora band performing in Clocktown, the gorons workers in Clocktown and on Milk Road, and the pirate base and mountain smithy showing how the different races interact was just awesome. Twilight Princess had a fair bit of that as well, but Wind Waker and Skyward Sword really skimped on the different cultures and their towns.
I don't disagree but like many things, it comes down to "will it be done well?" It seems like even when they try to have more complex storytelling in their games, it's usually almost by accident or without thinking much about it? Like I think if they really focused so much on that, it might go horribly wrong.
Right, and that's always a line to dance. I believe it's very possible for them to do. And maybe it won't be as extensive as The Elder Scrolls or BioWare games, but give me at least SOME meat on the lore end of things. I mean, this could be a flipping amazing angle for puzzle solving! People are always the biggest puzzle, and cultures dictate who people are.
Also, if this DOES take place before the formation of Hyrulean imperialism, no canon has been set! This would be a great time to showcase how the peoples gathered together.
If not this game, allow Zelda to be crossed-over with a company who could do it justice. There is so much potential for this aspect of Zelda.
Twilight Princess had a fair bit of that as well, but Wind Waker and Skyward Sword really skimped on the different cultures and their towns.
Thought you said elsewhere that you thought Wind Waker did a good job at this sort of thing. I personally thought the world of Wind Waker was a massive disappointment. After an incredibly strong start, you've seen pretty much all of the interesting game locations within the first 2 hours of the game.
Twilight Princess had a fair bit of that as well, but Wind Waker and Skyward Sword really skimped on the different cultures and their towns.
Thought you said elsewhere that you thought Wind Waker did a good job at this sort of thing. I personally thought the world of Wind Waker was a massive disappointment. After an incredibly strong start, you've seen pretty much all of the interesting game locations within the first 2 hours of the game.
Windfall Island felt quite alive, as did Dragon Roost. But there was only really quests to engage with the town on Windfall, the Hylian island. My point was that there wasn't much zora and goron culture in the game; the two classic Zelda races, which disappointed me. The world of The Wind Waker was good, but of a small scale than most 3D Zeldas, made ever smaller in contrast to the vast ocean. Skyward Sword had a similar problem, but even worse since that game had literally no other towns.
What is everyone's expectations in regards to the soundtrack? Personally, I think that Skyward Sword's OST was very important in progressing Zelda from being done with MIDI to being largely orchestrated. Most of the important themes like Fi's Theme, The Sky, and Zelda's Theme as well as much of the cutscene music was recorded with a live orchestra. I just hope that all of the soundtrack in Zelda Wii U is done by a live orchestra, except of course, in cases were MIDI synths are necessary. One example of when MIDI was necessary was in the Silent Realms in SS.
Ultimately, I was rather disappointed that SS didn't have a fully orchestrated soundtrack. But I think that with Nintendo's fantastic work recently on MK8's soundtrack(being done by a live jazz band and featuring FANTASTIC soloists) and SSB's soundtrack(all of which was done by either a live orchestra or really good, up-to-date MIDI), the bar has been raised for their AAA games, to where it should be a requirement that they get a live orchestra, or at the very least, some decent MIDI, for Zelda Wii U's OST.
The only thing that makes me worry is that in the gameplay demo back in November(?), when Aonuma was showcasing the battle system while fighting some monsters, what is probably going to end up being the battle theme could be heard. And it was clearly done using MIDI strings. And the MIDI wasn't very good. Even ALBW's MIDI was better than what was heard.
"The future doesn't belong to you!"
Waiting for: BOTW 2, Metroid Prime 4, Xenoblade Chronicles 3
99% certain they used a midi because they haven't hired the orchestra yet (so Koji Kondo or someone made a quickie version of a song they've made for the demo). I can't see them going back to midi, at least for the most part.
I had some issues with Skyward Sword's soundtrack when I played it. It didn't quite live up (at least consistently) with the other 3D games' amazing soundtracks, but I think a lot of that was getting sick of hearing certain songs for the large amount of times you are in certain areas (mainly the 3 main areas, the overworld and Skyloft) rather than it necessarily being lesser music. So I guess I just hope they don't have songs you hear so frequently unless they are on Xenoblade levels where that doesn't become an issue.
If the teaser was a sign for how the game will be, maybe there will be some interesting use of electronic music (or something like it) when the weird robot things attack to contrast with orchestra,
I'm in support of full orchestration, but Skyward Sword's music really didn't grab me. I'm not really fluent in music, I can't tell a lot of midi from orchestration, for instance, but I know what moves me. The best Zelda songs have always either been really catchy or have evoked emotions within myself and others. Seeing the amazing Final Fantasy 15 demo music only put Skyward Sword's soundtrack into harsher contrast. I haven't dug into the soundtrack too much, and there were some good songs, but the game has much worse music selections during much of the gameplay and for important story moments. Twilight Princess, The Wind Waker, Majora's Mask, and Ocarina of Time just put it to shame in that respect.
I felt the music was largely too light in tone (emotional tone, again, I'm not fluent in music) and repetitive. Some of the songs, like the Ghirahim theme, for instance, had much too sharp notes that came out really poorly on my TV's speakers (it's a modern TV). I don't know if that was the wii's lower music quality or I needed to send it through a speaker system or good headphones, but it really hurt my ears at times.
Zelda U's music hasn't grabbed me yet, largely because we haven't heard more than 15 second strings of it yet. I dunno, we'll have to see if it has great songs.
Skyward Sword's music quality had very little to do with it being orchestrated and very much to do with the fact many of the songs just weren't that catchy. Yes there were exceptions (like the Ballad of the Goddess) theme, but it felt like the basic melodies weren't really focused on as much as the instruments.
Just hear any reorchestrated Zelda theme on Youtube if you want to see how great an orchestrated Zelda soundtrack can sound:
Really though, I suspect the music in Zelda Wii U will be just fine. I mean, just after Skyward Sword we got A Link Between Worlds, and that had a great soundtrack. Don't see why the next game will be a step back from that.
Skyward Sword's music quality had very little to do with it being orchestrated and very much to do with the fact many of the songs just weren't that catchy. Yes there were exceptions (like the Ballad of the Goddess) theme, but it felt like the basic melodies weren't really focused on as much as the instruments.
Yeah, I would agree. There are some gems, though, like some of the songs at the beginning of the soundtrack. The chief failing was on song repetition and where each song was placed in the game (the sky had the same some WAY too many times).
Zelda U will probably have a great soundtrack and, hopefully, less repetitive song placement. I mean, with an open world they'll have to script songs queues more dynamically to some extent. I just hope the main battle and overworld songs are great and, like, 8-10 minutes long to reduce looping and repetition.
A good place to look for a great orchestrated fantasy soundtrack, besides Final Fantasy, is the latest few Monster Hunter games. The tracks with vocals just blow me away. (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ddys8Rb5jDg) They should really get back to that epic unknown language (Latin?) vocals thing. In the Twilight Princess and Attack on Titan that trope really blew me away and was more than a little hype.
Yeah I agree that a lot of the themes in SS weren't as catchy as many previous Zelda games. But what I'm saying is that orchestration makes a lot of things more memorable. MIDI is only a substitute for an orchestra, and it can't convey what the composers wanted nearly as well. I still think that if Faron Woods, Eldin Volcano, and Lanyaru Desert had been done using real instruments, they would have been more memorable.
You might say, "Well previous Zelda games used MIDI and their area themes were still more memorable than SS's were." That's true. But I think it's due to the composers. Didn't Hajime Wakai have the most influence in the soundtrack? He did all the area themes along with 3 other composers. Anyways, he has more experience with using a live orchestra, like in Super Mario Galaxy. And imo when he uses an orchestra, he is quite capable of making memorable music. I think he's just not as well-suited at composing for MIDI as more veteran composers in the video game industry like Koji Kondo might be.
Just hearing Fi's Theme, The Sky, Ghirahim's Theme, and pretty much all the orchestrated tracks makes me believe that when the composers are given an orchestra to work with, they'll put more effort into their compositions to make them memorable, seeing as I can clearly recall all the orchestrated themes in my head and sing them.
Does anyone know if the higher quality sound output on the Wii U as compared to the Wii will help the music sound less tin-y or blaring? I don't have a huge (any) knowledge base in regard to specs for audio hardware, personally.
Does anyone know if the higher quality sound output on the Wii U as compared to the Wii will help the music sound less tin-y or blaring? I don't have a huge (any) knowledge base in regard to specs for audio hardware, personally.
I never noticed anything really sounding tin-y on the Wii. Maybe the only thing was some of the music from Kirby's Return to Dreamland and the flute in the Faron Woods theme from SS. But I would say that was just due to the treble in the track being adjusted too high to begin with.
Regardless, I'm sure that the audio output on the Wii U is much better than the Wii's, judging from how much better even just the Wii U menu sounds than the Wii menu.
"The future doesn't belong to you!"
Waiting for: BOTW 2, Metroid Prime 4, Xenoblade Chronicles 3
I just came back from a Gamestop (I'm in Italy). They claimed that Zelda is coming out on the 31st of May. I don't believe them, but I pre-ordered just to see what happens (lol)
Skyward Sword's music quality had very little to do with it being orchestrated and very much to do with the fact many of the songs just weren't that catchy. Yes there were exceptions (like the Ballad of the Goddess) theme, but it felt like the basic melodies weren't really focused on as much as the instruments.
Yeah, I would agree. There are some gems, though, like some of the songs at the beginning of the soundtrack. The chief failing was on song repetition and where each song was placed in the game (the sky had the same some WAY too many times).
Zelda U will probably have a great soundtrack and, hopefully, less repetitive song placement. I mean, with an open world they'll have to script songs queues more dynamically to some extent. I just hope the main battle and overworld songs are great and, like, 8-10 minutes long to reduce looping and repetition.
A good place to look for a great orchestrated fantasy soundtrack, besides Final Fantasy, is the latest few Monster Hunter games. The tracks with vocals just blow me away. (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ddys8Rb5jDg) They should really get back to that epic unknown language (Latin?) vocals thing. In the Twilight Princess and Attack on Titan that trope really blew me away and was more than a little hype.
Yeah I agree that a lot of the themes in SS weren't as catchy as many previous Zelda games. But what I'm saying is that orchestration makes a lot of things more memorable. MIDI is only a substitute for an orchestra, and it can't convey what the composers wanted nearly as well. I still think that if Faron Woods, Eldin Volcano, and Lanyaru Desert had been done using real instruments, they would have been more memorable.
You might say, "Well previous Zelda games used MIDI and their area themes were still more memorable than SS's were." That's true. But I think it's due to the composers. Didn't Hajime Wakai have the most influence in the soundtrack? He did all the area themes along with 3 other composers. Anyways, he has more experience with using a live orchestra, like in Super Mario Galaxy. And imo when he uses an orchestra, he is quite capable of making memorable music. I think he's just not as well-suited at composing for MIDI as more veteran composers in the video game industry like Koji Kondo might be.
Just hearing Fi's Theme, The Sky, Ghirahim's Theme, and pretty much all the orchestrated tracks makes me believe that when the composers are given an orchestra to work with, they'll put more effort into their compositions to make them memorable, seeing as I can clearly recall all the orchestrated themes in my head and sing them.
Actually, if you ask me, Twilight Princess had the most memorable themes. Midi allowed them to have a very diverse sounds in their songs. Remember Ook's battle theme? That's not usually something you hear in a symphonic soundtrack.
Currently Playing: Steamworld Heist, The Legend of Zelda: Majora's Mask, Tales of Graces F
Anyway, Zelda U. What music instrument or gimmick do you think this one will have?
I hope they decide to use the classic Recorder somehow.
I'm tired of the gimmicks be they flute, harp, or what have you. I'd be a fan of just going back to the classic Ocarina, or any of the different forms' instruments in Majora's Mask and Twilight Princess. The wolf's howl was particularly beautiful and underused. I really like the idea of the same songs sounding different on different instruments (whether or not that makes sense from a musician's perspective).
The Wind Waker was a good-un too. I think it's important that we're able to walk while playing the instrument (maybe not the goron drums, wolf's howl, or deku pipes, though). That could be neat.
Forums
Topic: The Legend of Zelda: Breath of the Wild
Posts 1,581 to 1,600 of 15,166
Please login or sign up to reply to this topic