Topic: The Legend of Zelda: Breath of the Wild

@rallydefault The environments are unique, I just wish the game had the enemy variety to complement those different environments. I can't think of any other Zelda game where Lizalfos are as common as in this game!

There are Korok Seeds puzzles that are almost mandatory for an important aspect of the game.

Are ya sure tho? XD I really can't follow the player agency rhetoric that people have been all abuzz with post-Skyrim. Too many choices and people can't decide!

@rallydefault I did not say that they copied topography — although for that matter there are very obviously reused rock arch, ruins, and shrine assets like any open world game — but rather enemies, rune puzzles, and korok puzzles. I don't know what you mean about every crevasse feeling unique: I remember the same slight divot + treasure chest or shrine cave behind some 50 different destructible rock walls. This game is very much characterized by open, barren space. Spawning monsters, animals, and secret Koroks only add interest, not uniqueness.

Octane's critique is fair I feel. Many puzzle shrines feel like they end just as they're getting into their stride. Fewer combat shrines in place of longer puzzle shrines would be better (Blessing Shrines are a different question - a few shrines definitely offer up their blessings too easily, but I agree with the concept and many outside puzzkes are really well done). A bit more enemy variety would be a good thing, although as has been stated, the weapons themselves create a lot of variety within a given enemy type. A Lizalfos with Shock Arrows in an area pull of puddles acts a lot more like a armed Bokoblin than another Lizalfos with a Royal Sword and Shield. Yesterday I found myself up against a Guardian, a horse-backed Bokoblin with Shock Arrows, a Keese Swarm, and a Yiga Blademaster simultaneously, and not only did they all act differently alone, but the combination proved entirely new. I'd try and reflect the Guardian's beam, only to be hit by a shock arrow, drop my shield, get hit by the beam, collapse into a pile of burning grass which then set a lot of the Keese Swarm alight, run back to my shield, shoot the Bokoblin off its horse, etc. It was a more novel experience than just fighting 'one new enemy type' in isolation. Still, I wouldn't say no to more, and Zelda's got a pretty rich back-catalogue to draw from.

Meanwhile Haru's back to being eye-rollingly melodramatic and obtusely reductionistic again, seemingly dismissing anything without and cut scene or a boss fight as not "meaningful content". "Meaningful content" is that which the player finds meaning in - obviously - and is as vaguely subjective and hand-wavey a concept as you can come by. The term therefore doesn't pair well with the ostensibly 'objective' tone of the rest of the argument, which attempts to clinically unpick the game; laying out its components for critique. The "meaningful content" can vary from between zero to hundreds of hours depending on the player. Personally, many of the most meaningful moments I've discovered in this game have been about as far from the main story as you can get. The core idea at the game's heart is that of exploration, and TNGYM has at length discussed the systems in place that have made this a such compelling experience for so many people during their time with the game

If you go in with the stubbornly believing the only "meaningful" elements of the game are those that resemble previous Zeldas, you're of course going to arrive at the conclusion that Breath is a bit anaemic in comparison. Breath was specifically designed with the purpose of breaking Zelda conventions, so any argument that attempts to judge the game by the traditional Zelda elements it doesn't have is bound to bear fruit. But such arguments are either wilfully ignorant, or just incredibly narrow minded, as they overlook everything Breath of the Wild brings, declaring it "meaningless" on arrival.

Another point where I would agree with with Octane is that between Breath and 'almost every other 3D Zelda ever', there's a fair bit of space - at least in their approach to certain elements - and this space could be filled by future games. I'm glad Breath went fully on board with the idea of macro-scale, externally controllable, highly connected jumbo-puzzles for the Divine Beasts. Because I'd never played anything like them, and I thought they were exceedingly well crafted. But looking back, there's nothing illegitimate about the room-by-room, micro puzzle based dungeons of the old game, and I don't think they deserve to be written out of history. There's no reason why future games can't draw inspiration from both. There's no reason why future games can't draw from any of the past games

But I'm very glad that Breath of the Wild has unapologetically stuck to its own vision and done its own thing, even if that's hasn't suited the tastes of a few one-dimentional traditionalists with an edge-complex. Maybe future games will miraculously please everyone, and I certainly wouldn't turn my nose up at a few old elements returning. But I don't think Breath can be rightly attacked for giving them a breather for a generation, especially in view of everything else its brought to the series (and arguably, video games as a medium).

@Haru17
Yes - obviously rocks and trees and such are copied. Little "divots," as you say, with chests at the bottom are copied. But yea, I don't know, man - you put me in any little grove of trees or whatever in the entire world, and I can tell you exactly where I am on the map, no questions asked. And there are certain rare spawns in the world that add uniqueness, I would argue. There are spots I will never forget mostly because of a cool creature I found there.

@Octane
Yes - huge let-down with enemy variety. I forgot to include that in my negatives list. That's a pretty big drawback, actually.

I'm not gonna type out another long response right not because both I'm tired and this thread is a bit exhausting. I'm sure you guys won't mind, because if I'm honestly one-dimensional you won't be reading this anyway. That's the kind of scentence that makes me wish I could type out the Twitch winkyface emoji. Anyway:

Stop stooping to ad hominem because I enjoyed a game less than you and dared talk about it.

I got to Eventide Island and it's definitely an interesting concept, I'd like that concept expanded in the DLC though I don't see that happening.

Looking at BotW so far, it has been a lot of fun and this month may actually end up being the most I've used my Wii U in a month since March 2016 due to BotW and MK8. I definitely think Nintendo's major Switch combo of BotW + MK8 Deluxe for pre-E3 fun was a good move.

@Haru17 i was referring to inventory slots since in a game like this you really need them, especially at the start of the game, but also later when you fight stronger enemies. You really need the Seeds, you have to farm some to be at least in a safer position...

And by the wat i did not play Skirim so no sentences based on that game...

Korok seeds can be important more so to each individual. I personally think 100 is more then enough to get where you need to be comfortable.

I have never once gone out of my way to "look" for Korok seeds. And yet I've found 144 seeds to date. Enough to expand my inventory well beyond what I need. I just explore, and seek out shrines/towers, and if something catches my eye along the way I go there.

Now, I've filled out the entire map so no more towers, I've found 98 shrines and defeated all 4 Divine Beasts. And all I did was explore and have fun, following the whims of my desires and parasailing wherever the wind blew.

I have no intention of trying to find all the seeds, or even all the shrines. Maybe I'll find the remaining shrines, Idk. I think a completionist approach is what ruins gaming experiences. At least, when it's such an arduous task like finding 900 Korok seeds.

I don't know. I have no intention of arguing against the criticisms of this game. All I can say is it's one of the funnest and most engaging games I have ever played in my entire life. Definitely the most awesome world I have ever explored (although Xenoblade Chronicles X comes close). People can list faults a mile long, and to that I just say it makes it all the more impressive that even despite all of those "faults" it's still one of the the best games I've ever played, and I've played a lot of games.

I'll vouch for @Haru17 on this one. I've enjoyed this game immensely, but the homogeneity can get tiresome. I can't tell you how many times I've headed toward an interesting landmark, and felt a little exasperated when I found out it was just another one of those Korok Seed puzzles. There's so many things in this world that seem like they should bear some special significance, and I find it either has nothing or a copied puzzle. I understand that this homogeneity has to happen in some degree in the less-interesting parts of the world, but it shocked me to find places like ancient temples, towering landmarks, giant lakes, and painted cliffsides to have little special significance.

I honestly wouldn't mind if the same content was put in a much smaller world. Let the developers spend less time placing Korok seeds and landscaping, and spend more time making outdoor shrines, or maybe theming some of the indoor shrines or dungeons. Perhaps diversify their divine beast quests.

It's far from perfect, but Breath of the Wild will always be a beautiful experiment in my eyes. It worries me what Aonuma means when he says this is a new standard; that aside, I'm glad the game is what it is, and was thrilled to have played it.

@JaxonH, I may have tried to comb the world thoroughly, but I can't say I've been looking for Korok seeds, but rather just looking for anything. But you're totally right. These last 50 or so hours I spent combing don't compare to the hours I spent taking divine beasts, and going off on tangents back when the world was totally fresh and new.

But my criticism above still applies to when I was playing just by whim. I'd want to explore things off in the distance, and I was disappointed in how boring it was when I got there.

@JaxonH agree with you, people ruin games by farming and getting things to 100%, it sounds boring to me i just do what i do till im bored i dont force nothing on myself for some trophy.

@Nicolaison I hope it is the new standard, if you think BOTW has a semi empty world have you played Final Fantasy a Realm Reborn? Oh God no dungeons to find no treasure you cant climb anything or explore that game sucks

I just found the last Great Skeleton and boy was that an adventure. It took me a good 45 minutes to find the shrine I kept hearing around me and found both! These little surprises are what makes the game so fun for me. These side quests are way more fun then simple fetch quests.

@ReeLongbow Regardless of how it compares to other games, the homogeneity is still there, and it would be better without it. I'd hate to play a game with a worse case of it.

@Spoony_Tech
You talking about the one hidden by the sandstorm? I just found that one myself. And the final fairy fountain. My GOODNESS are those final upgrades amazing! Practically doubled my defense. 10,000 rupees but worth every one of them.

@ReeLongbow
I've fallen into the trap many times before. Some games it's ok. Like, take DKC Tropical Freeze for example. Finding all the puzzle pieces and KONG letters is great fun. But I never attempt that on my first run through the game, otherwise it will turn into a drag. Play through the game and get what I can get and then I go back for a second play through and grab everything.

A game like Zelda... I just don't see the fun in forcing yourself to go find and collect everything. I'm pretty OCD when it comes to finishing everything and collecting everything but even I draw the line at some point. The fun in this game comes from exploration and discovery and puzzle solving along the way. When you're forcing yourself to go find korok seeds, you lose most of that. Idk, games should be fun, and once I've done enough in a game and explored enough that that fun starts to fade and all that remains is completing 100% it's definitely time to move on

@JaxonH I think that going for all the Korok seeds is a bit mental. I did all the shrines (well, I looked up the last four or five), but I found most of them on my own. Doing all the shrines in quite reasonable. I don't think even Nintendo intended for you to get all the Korok seeds, because you only need 450 or so to max out everything.

@Nicolaison I agree. I think shrines and Korok seeds were pretty overused. Some of the shrines were extremely cool, others less so, most notably the combat ones, and the Korok seeds were extremely forgettable, but okay little distractions nonetheless. (Understandably, of course, considering there's 900 of them) I just assumed going into it that the game would be more like Skyrim were you could find extremely varied things such as (I recommend not clicking the spoiler if you haven't played Skyrim) huge labyrinths built by a long forgotten people, or wandering into a cave and find out it's housing a nest of vampires, but instead it was largely just shrines and Korok seeds. My sense of wonder at the world diminished a lot after the first 20 or so hours when I came to realize that. There are exceptions to this, of course, but it felt to me like more of a giant scavenger hunt for stuff like shrines and Korok seeds than exploring a huge world filled with unique secrets to uncover. And, as I've said before, the side quests were hugely disappointing to me, and the story was good, but not great IMO. I did like exploring the towns a lot though.

I can see that the draw here was more the gameplay and the shrines and general freedom of choice than anything though, and I see why people like it so much. I also liked it a lot, but it never quite resonated with me like games such as Skyrim and Red Dead Redemption did. BotW is a great open world game, but it's not my favorite, and I doubt I'll be coming back to it anytime soon. It's still a great foundation for future games in the Zelda series though, and I hope they can find a balance between this game and past Zelda games, with locations that have unique things to find and don't end up just housing something like a shrine or a Korok seed.

@Octane
Ya, doing all the shrines isn't unreasonable at all. Especially since they're fast travel points, have a decent puzzle to solve, help get you heart and stamina pieces and there aren't nearly as many of them.

@JaxonH Nope, the one in the hebra mountains. It was tricky to find and then the puzzle to gain access was fun but not really hard.

Well, it IS called Breath of the WILD. And boy do you ever find wildlife whenever you stray from the paths marked by civilization. In real life, exploring places like deserts and snowy mountains nets you... more desert and snowy mountain. Kind of surreal, the way Nintendo seems to blend realism with fantasy at times, such as Color Splash's meat "boss" teaches you how real-life cooking is easy to screw up and costly to retry, yet also making the process, well... you know. And in this game, you have things like sand-swimming seals (yes, the whole "swimming in sand" bit is hardly new in games anymore but the point still stands), volcanic ostriches and tundra rhinos, all behaving more or less like their real counterparts, despite being in completely different habitats.