Topic: Super Smash Bros. Ultimate

@status-204 Lara is more iconic than a lot of the other third party fighters and being a prominent Ninty friendly series hasn’t be applied for other fighters also. I’d be happy with her especially against some of the other predictions floating about.

Here's the complete list of Tomb Raider games on Nintendo hardware:

• Tomb Raider (GBC) - 2000
• Tomb Raider Curse of the Sword (GBC) - 2001
• Tomb Raider The Prophecy (GBA) - 2002
• Tomb Raider Legend (GC/DS) - 2006
• Tomb Raider Anniversary (Wii) - 2007
• Tomb Raider Underworld (Wii/DS) - 2008

Thanks for pointing that out. This is truly something that can be used to speculate with.

1. Another Capcom fighter, possibly Phoenix Wright or Monster Hunter, reintroducing the SSB4 costumes. I prdedict one will be a fighter, the other will be a Mii costume.

2. Another Square Enix fighter, with the possibility of Geno being still open. If it's not Geno, his Mii costume will certainly be back.

3. A Bandai Namco fighter. With Tekken out of the race, it's possible it could be Lloyd. If it's not Lloyd we'll get his costume back. There's the old argument that BN is developing the game and that they deserve a new character for all that great work which would only be fair. (A SoulCalibur one would be dope.)

This leaves room for just one more which is... unfortunately not Travis.
There was an argument about great partnerships which I can get behind:

On one hand there's Koei Tecmo who made their latest three Project Zero games Nintendo exclusive, they let Nintendo publish Ninja Gaiden III: Razor's Edge on Wii U, they produced Hyrule Warriors 1&2 and Fire Emblem Warriors, and generally developed 100+ Nintendo games since the NES days.

On the other hand there's a growing relationship with Ubisoft and them lately putting out Mario+Rabbids and Starlink feat. Starfox. They've also a very long history with Nintendo.

PS. I see Rayman's and Lara Croft's inclusion in Brawlhalla as a sign for them not coming to Smash.

@SKTTR I'm pretty sure Ubisoft is out of the running since they have not one but TWO Mii costumes with Altair from Assassin's Creed and the Rabbids

It'd be one thing to have a single Mii Costume from a completely different franchise and then a fighter associated with another franchise but something about two Mii Fighter costumes kinda screams deconfirmation to me

At least when Bethesda got showcased it was just the Vault Boy and not anyone major like Dragonborn or DOOM Slayer

Biggest roadblock for Lara Croft is that her series has never had a big hit in Japan and doesn't seem to be a very requested character over there either (unlike other Western picks like King K Rool, Banjo Kazooie, or even Steve). Also Sakurai doesn't have any documented interest in the series unlike with KoF (Terry).

After all Sakurai (naturally) is biased towards what he's most familiar with and what the fans in Japan want, there's a reason why it took so long to get a Western third party character with Banjo.

I do think Crash and Monster Hunter are very likely. Both big hits in Japan (though with Crash its only the PS1 era ones that did huge numbers) and both very requested.

Yeah Lara is iconic and all but I feel like she's not like, an... Actually popular video game character?

This might be just me, but the first thing that comes to mind when she's mentioned is "Hollywood action", instead of "fun piece of gaming history".

If she did get added, I'd argue she'd feel more out of place than Steve himself. She is like, a big notch above Snake in terms of "realism". At least in her current form, that is.

@Eel I don't think Lara's that iconic tbh. She doesn't really have any redeeming or notable qualities aside from being the "Female Indiana Jones" as some say.

I'd also bet that some people found out about Lara from the movie, and then later found out about the game series.

@DarkRula I like that. that would work well I think. Gives players the ability to say, yes it says I can do this this way, but I think I can find another solution

@Apportal well there’s people who don’t realise that Resident Evil is a video game rather than just a rubbish bunch of movies but that has nothing to do with the HUGE impact both RE and TR have had on games.

@jump Once again, that's not what I'm saying. I didn't say TR didn't impact games, which I'm willing to admit that they did. I simply said the games aren't very popular, which they aren't. Resident Evil is albeit a MUCH more popular franchise, but the same is true for it.

@Apportal Since when did a game being popular with a very specific crowd mean it was eligible for Smash

I love franchises like Persona and Fatal Fury but I will be the first to openly say Persona was not popular at all until very recently with P5, especially around the time I was getting into the series around 2010/2011 with Persona 3 Portable and the P1/2 PSP remakes. In fact part of the popularity probably has to do with Joker's Smash inclusion in the first place.

Fatal Fury by itself also isn't nearly as popular as other series like King of Fighters or even Capcom vs. SNK. Smash isn't really a popularity competition

@TheFrenchiestFry Where did I say a character had to popular to be eligible for Smash? I was explaining why I think Lara Croft and her series in general aren't all that popular. The "Fatal Fury" remarks I ended up disagreeing with anyways so I edited that long before you asked.

"Tomb Raider isn't popular" is factually untrue, unless a game needs to sell 10 million to be popular. (which the 2013 game surpassed anyway)

For the record, quick search on Wikipedia says the original Tomb Raider outsold all the PS1 Crash games so...yeah.

Though I do agree that the character should be closer to her classic design, but I assume that's the direction they would go with anyway. Not that I think Lara would be high on the list of characters to be in the game but if she were...

@Apportal For some more numbers, the Tomb Raider series as a whole has 75 million sales, and the main series games have sold 5 million copies a game on average. I'd say it's one of the most notable series in gaming. It's also the 28th best selling franchise of all time, ahead of many notable names such as Halo, Crash, Super Smash Bros, Elder Scrolls and Monster Hunter.

I don't think it's particularly popular in Nintendo circles mind you... but that's mainly because it's been absolute ages since a Tomb Raider game has released on Nintendo hardware, and even longer since a good one has. For the record, the last one was Underworld on the Wii/DS, which was one of those games that had a completely different version on 360/PS3 that was significantly better, along with every other Tomb Raider on the Wii. Pretty sure those versions left a sour taste in Nintendo fans mouths that basically killed the franchise on Nintendo hardware back then.

@kkslider5552000 I think SE would want Nintendo to use Lara's latest design if she was ever added to Smash Bros...

Unless they went with her Go design! hah.

I might've agreed a few years ago, but the last Tomb Raider didn't seem to do so well, so I think they'd be more willing to go along with something else.

After watching Sakurai's presentation on Steve yesterday I've got to say my respect for Sakurai has increased to immeasurable levels. He's a madman! The amount of work he and his team put into this latest character and what they had to do to make it all work is mind boggling. No other developer would go to such lengths for a DLC character, no one.

@Apportal you said Lara Croft wasn’t “iconic“ but considering the impact she has as the biggest female protagonist in games I strongly disagree.

However as been mentioned by others the games do sell well even if they haven’t hit the previous high points which is more to do with how high those peaks are rather than how unpopular it is now.

If being a non dry character is the criteria than half the roster needs to go ;p

Smash is a video game mascot fighter and she certainly fits that bill.

I’m thinking we’re gonna see

Another recent Nintendo character
A Capcom Rep
A Bandai Namco Rep
A new 3rd Party