@StephanDLW 10m sales for a series with 30 releases (that had its first ports only on Playstation 2) isn't nearly enough (despite 3 Donkey Konga spin-offs coming out later on the Gamecube) when Bandai Namco has popular franchises like Tales of... (20m), Tekken (47m), and SoulCalibur (13m). And since the Tales of...-series started on Nintendo, is hugely popular in Japan (almost like Dragon Quest), and Lloyd Irving was a costume in Smash 4 (alongside Heihachi), we practically know what to expect next.
OR - since Namco has Pac-Man already in, it will be Bandai's turn next. Tamagotchi! You heard it here first.
I'm still rooting for Agumon if we're going to get a Bandai rep, we need that Pikachu vs Agumon 90s fight to happen. And while he's not my favorite Digimon, no one can argue he doesn't deserve the slot most out of anyone in the franchise.
@link3710 Agumon is really iconic. For being another case of ''Here's the soulless Playstation clone of something we stole from Nintendo''.
I'm honest though, if we look at Bandai Namco - maybe not from a Smash Bros. viewpoint, but from a Mario Kart perspective - then you probably know that Pac-Man, along with 2 other characters from the Pac-Man universe were the first Bandai-Namco characters in Mario Kart Arcade GP.
Do you know who came after Pac-Man? Hint: It wasn't Agumon.
If it does end up being Ryu Hayabusa, I could see him being announced at the Game Awards alongside Ninja Gaiden reboot trilogy (Ninja Gaiden Sigma, Ninja Gaiden Sigma 2, Ninja Gaiden 3 Razor's Edge) coming to PS4, XB1 and Switch. The NES games are on NSO so I doubt a collection for the original trilogy would happen for modern consoles (collections means no NSO support).
@Grumblevolcano Even though I never liked the Ninja Gaiden series for it's difficulty, it's a NES original, that's still alive and popular enough, and maybe KOEI TECMO's most eligible contestant, since Mio & Mayu Amakura and Yuri Kozukata from the Project Zero / Fatal Frame series are deconfirmed (Assist Trophy & Spirits).
@Galarian_Lassie Kunio-Kun is very iconic with great games and cult hits such as River City Ransom and Super Dodge Ball, and Renegade (which lead to another popular series called Double Dragon). After many NES releases Kunio crossed paths with Nintendo when Nintendo made one of the Kunio-Kun games their own with 'Nintendo World Cup' (NES, 1990). Unfortunately Nintendo never re-released it on Virtual Console or anything. TECHNOS JAPAN / ARC SYSTEM WORKS putting in a Kunio-Kun style rep into Smash would be hilarious. But man these characters animations are just too good to miss. I hope the series is big enough to have a chance, most games in the series were never released in the West.
Ryu Hyabusa would be a good Tecmo rep (I'd personally prefer Ayame, but Ryu's the more obvious & likely choice).
If Crash or Spyro get in (and I wouldn't completely rule one of the two out), I think they'd be announced in the middle of the next pack, Banjo-Kazooie style, surrounded by more Japan popular characters on each side.
Namco's next rep is more up in the air with a lot of long running & iconic series like Tales, Tekken, Soulcalibur, Digimon, & Tamagotchi, but I'd personally like them to go a bit out of left field and pick Klonoa.
Currently Playing:
Switch - Blade Strangers
PS4 - Kingdom Hearts III, Tetris Effect (VR)
@SKTTR Woah woah woah, I get that you aren't a Digimon fan, but Digimon predates Pokemon as being a thing, including Agumon. The games far predate Sony, and the games were all multiplatform or Nintendo Exclusive aside form the World 2 & 3 on PS1 and Adventures on the original PSP. Part of the reason you might think that is that Digimon's first full size games were actually on WonderSwan, a japanese only gameboy competitor, and the games only started getting localized in the PS1. Nintendo's had plenty of Digimon exclusives over the years though.
Also check it, Digimon's slightly higher than Tamagotchi in terms of overall franchise sales. But regardless of that, Mametchi made the most since to add to a Mario Kart game, while Agumon is the better suited of the two for a fighter.
EDIT: Oh and Digimon being a Pokemon ripoff is only a thing in western territories thanks to Digimon getting localized a few months after Pokemon, it's not something that people think in Japan so it is highly unlikely to come into play there.
@RR529 I also think that Ryu Hayabusa is the most likely choice for a KOEI TECMO rep as he's similar to Simon, Mega Man, Dragon Quest, Final Fantasy, etc. in having such a long history with Nintendo. Other popular KOEI TECMO series such as Dynasty Warriors, Samurai Warriors, Romance of the Three Kingdoms, or Nobunaga's Ambition don't have real video game characters as they're all historical figures.
Sure, KOEI TECMO's creepy horror series Project Zero / Fatal Frame has turned into Nintendo's financed, exclusive horror series flagship title (other contestants such as Eternal Darkness were just a one-off), but since both these series main characters are only ATs and Spirits, the real horror reps can only come from CAPCOM (Resident Evil) or KONAMI (Silent Hill).
So who else than Hayabusa could be a KOEI TECMO rep? Someone from Dead or Alive apparently, but then again, Hayabusa is one of the main characters in that series as well. There's not much choice, is there?
Now that another ninja (my favourite, KONAMI's Goemon) is deconfirmed, how many popular Ninja's are still available?
I know one: Shinobi from SEGA!
Who's better, Hayabusa or Shinobi? I didn't care much for Ninja Gaiden, but I liked the Shinobi games. ^^
@SKTTR We already have a SEGA character in the fighters pass though (Joker), I doubt there'd be multiple characters from the same company in the same pass. Maybe a 2nd SEGA character for pass 2 or later, I could definitely see a 2nd Microsoft character appear in Smash in a different pass for example (Master Chief in particular).
Yeah, I know. Shinobi (aka Joe Musashi) would be SEGA's fourth Smash character too (after Sonic, Bayonetta and Joker), and there has not been a 3rd party that got a fourth fighter in yet.
Second in line from Microsoft is Minecraft-Steve, he's way more popular than HALO, Ori, Hellblade, and Cuphead combined. It's super-popular in Japan as well and there's a free exclusive Mario Mash-Up Pack in the Wii U and Switch versions of Minecraft, so Minecraft already crossed over with Nintendo and the Super Mario series a couple of years ago. I would not count on anything from Microsoft until Steve is out.
And just like Sega, Microsoft already has a fighter in this DLC (Banjo-Kazooie), so even if Steve is coming, he wouldn't be Fighters Pass challenger number 5. He'd rather be Microsoft's (and Nintendo's) best pick for the second Fighters Pass.
Master Chief's only Nintendo appearance was a blocky DLC skin in the aforementioned Minecraft games.
Final Fantasy on the other hand, is a brand that was born on the NES, had three titles there, then brought over to the SNES and had three of its best games there, and those lead to the success that Final Fantasy VII was. Cloud was in at least 2 Nintendo games prior to his inclusion in Smash (Theatrhythm), granted none of those games were Final Fantasy VII, but he was a character that appeared in a Nintendo game nonetheless, unlike Master Chief. Technically, Cloud existed in Final Fantasy 64 for the Nintendo 64 (there are pictures that show him running on Nintendo's hardware before he turned into a PlayStation game), but that game unfortunately was cancelled.
Maybe Cloud's Smash inclusion secured the deal that we not only got Final Fantasy VII on Switch, but also all the other Final Fantasy, Dragon Quest, Secret of Mana, Romancing Saga, Tokyo RPG Factory games. It's basically Square Enix supporting Nintendo 100% this generation.
I can't think of Master Chief being in any way comparable to Cloud. Especially when it comes to the ties and history with Nintendo.
@SKTTR I'm looking more on the side of Microsoft regarding Master Chief in Smash, Minecraft is still huge and doesn't need promotion. Meanwhile Halo's popularity dipped in the late 360 era but has been growing back since stuff like the MCC fixes, PC announcements and Infinite news. Halo returning back to Halo 3 era popularity would help Microsoft out a lot. As for this comment:
"Maybe Cloud's Smash inclusion secured the deal that we not only got Final Fantasy VII on Switch, but also all the other Final Fantasy, Dragon Quest, Secret of Mana, Romancing Saga, Tokyo RPG Factory games. It's basically Square Enix supporting Nintendo 100% this generation."
Maybe Master Chief in Smash could help secure stuff like xCloud and Xbox Game Pass on Switch, that would help Nintendo a lot especially dealing with the inevitable problem of next gen increasing the power gap even further which'll force more 3rd parties to abandon the Switch.
Joker - Persona 5 Royal/Persona 5 Scramble
DQ Hero - Dragon Quest XI S
Banjo - Doesn't seem like a promo character yet
Terry Bogard - The King of Fighters XV
I'm looking more on the side of Microsoft regarding Master Chief in Smash, Minecraft is still huge and doesn't need promotion. Meanwhile Halo's popularity dipped in the late 360 era but has been growing back since stuff like the MCC fixes, PC announcements and Infinite news. Halo returning back to Halo 3 era popularity would help Microsoft out a lot. As for this comment:
"Maybe Cloud's Smash inclusion secured the deal that we not only got Final Fantasy VII on Switch, but also all the other Final Fantasy, Dragon Quest, Secret of Mana, Romancing Saga, Tokyo RPG Factory games. It's basically Square Enix supporting Nintendo 100% this generation."
Maybe Master Chief in Smash could help secure stuff like xCloud and Xbox Game Pass on Switch, that would help Nintendo a lot especially dealing with the inevitable problem of next gen increasing the power gap even further which'll force more 3rd parties to abandon the Switch.
Nintendo isn't out to promote games with Smash. They can do so with literally any other game. They used Zelda to promote the Switch versions of Skyrim and Diablo III for instance, no need for Dragonborne or Diablo to be added to Smash. Nintendo's out to promote games via Nintendo Direct, Switch News channel, their websites, videos, etc. Smash is dedicated to historical characters, not to promote stuff (unless it's first party). It's Microsoft's job to make HALO big again, not Nintendo's.
With Cloud in Smash, Nintendo gamers had an incentive to go into the series with:
1. Final Fantasy (1987, NES, also available on Wii VC, Wii U VC, 3DS VC, NES Classic mini)
2. Final Fantasy II (1988, NES, also available on Wii VC, Wii U VC, 3DS VC)
3. Final Fantasy Legend (1989, GB) I think this turned into the Romancing Sa-Ga series
4. Final Fantasy III (1990, NES, also available on Wii VC, Wii U VC, 3DS VC)
5. Final Fantasy Legend II (1990, GB)
6. Final Fantasy Adventure (1991, GB) - ok, so that's basically Secret of Mana 1 and it's on Collection of Mana.
7. Final Fantasy IV (1991, SNES, also available on Wii VC, Wii U VC)
8. Final Fantasy Legend III (1991, GB)
9. Final Fantasy V (1992, SNES, also available on Wii VC, Wii U VC)
10. Final Fantasy: Mystic Quest (1993, SNES)
11. Final Fantasy VI (1994, SNES, also available on Wii VC, Wii U VC, SNES Classic mini)
12. Super Mario RPG (1995, SNES) - has a Final Fantasy boss hidden cameo appearance.
13. Chocobo Land: A Game of Dice (2002, GBA)
14. Final Fantasy - Crystal Chronicles (2003, Gamecube)
15. Final Fantasy Tactics Advance (2003, GBA, also available on Wii U VC)
16. Final Fantasy I & II: Dawn of Souls (2004, GBA, also available on Wii U VC and 3DS VC)
17. Final Fantasy IV Advance (2005, GBA, also available on Wii U VC)
18. Final Fantasy Fables: Chocobo Tales (2006, DS)
19. Final Fantasy III (2006, DS)
20. Final Fantasy V Advance (2006, GBA, also available on Wii U VC)
21. Final Fantasy VI Advance (2006, GBA, also available on Wii U VC)
22. Final Fantasy Fables: Chocobo's Dungeon (2007, Wii)
23. Final Fantasy - Crystal Chronicles: Ring of Fates (2007, DS)
24. Final Fantasy IV (2007, DS)
25. Final Fantasy XII: Revenant Wings (2007, DS)
26. Final Fantasy Tactics A2: Grimoire of the Rift (2007, DS)
27. Final Fantasy - Crystal Chronicles: My Life as a King (2008, WiiWare)
28. Cid and Chocobo's Mysterious Dungeon: The Labyrinth of Forgotten Time DS+ (2008, DS)
29. Chocobo and the Magic Picture Book: The Witch, the Girl, and the Five Heroes (2008, DS)
30. Final Fantasy - Crystal Chronicles: My Life as a Darklord (2009, WiiWare)
31. Final Fantasy - Crystal Chronicles: Echoes of Time (2009, Wii)
32. Final Fantasy - Crystal Chronicles: Echoes of Time (2009, DS)
33. Final Fantasy IV: The After Years (2009, WiiWare)
34. Final Fantasy - Crystal Chronicles: The Crystal Bearers (2009, Wii)
35. Final Fantasy - Crystal Defenders R1 (2009, WiiWare)
36. Final Fantasy - Crystal Defenders R2 (2009, WiiWare)
37. Final Fantasy: The 4 Heroes of Light (2009, DS)
38. Theatrhythm Final Fantasy (2012, 3DS)
39. Theatrhythm Final Fantasy: Curtain Call (2014, 3DS)
40. Final Fantasy Explorers (2014, 3DS)
41. Pictlogica Final Fantasy (2017, 3DS)
These are all the Final Fantasy games that were available to Nintendo gamers before Cloud's reveal as a fighter in Smash 4.
What games will Nintendo fans be able to play if they're interested in Master Chief? Are you going to tell them to play Minecraft? Or you will you tell them to wait for a game that will most likely never see the light of day?
Also, why should Nintendo promote HALO when they struggle to keep their own sci-fi adventure fps series (Metroid Prime) alive? All 7 Metroid Prime games, yeah, even Metroid Prime Pinball, Hunters, and Federation Force have sold a total of 7 million. HALO 2 alone sold 8 million.
If you'd ask me DOOM Marine has a much better chance to join Smash.
@SKTTR I'm not saying using Smash as a promo tool is the right move, I'm saying Nintendo seems to already be using Smash as a promo tool. This is the key detail, you're saying using Smash as a promo tool is bad while I'm saying it's already happening.
@SKTTR I can at least agree with your reasoning now on Digimon, even if I don't share the opinion. Though, either way, a Bandai rep would be amazing.
I really don't see Master Chief happening until Smash 6. If Microsoft and Nintendo are still getting along then, he's well and truly on the board. Before then, Steve seems likely as part of the second wave.
As for the final member of this wave? Well, I doubt it's Konami (Bomberman most likely and out for the pass), Square Enix, Microsoft, Ubisoft (Rayman is the most likely and out for the pass) or Sega, and it's definitely not SNK. That would leave Bandai Namco, Capcom, Koei Tecmo, Level-5, Bethesda, and Activision-Blizzard as the most likely companies, in that order.
So I'd rank the most likely reps as 1. Heihachi/Tekken/Soul Calibur
2. Lloyd/Tales
3. Mametchi/Agumon
4. Jill / Leon
5. Monster Hunter
6. Dante
7. Ryu Hayubasa
8. Jibanyan
9. Doomguy
10. Dragonborn
11. Crash
12. Spyro
13. Tracer
14. Diablo
The question is, which would be the biggest promo tool(s) on this list
I know not part of the current discussion, but I doubt we'll ever see Sora from Kingdom Hearts.
While he himself originated in games, elements of his design (namely the Mickey keychain on the Kingdom Key, his most iconic weapon) don't. So either they'd have to alter the keychain (maybe replace it with the series' heart shaped logo) or give him another (less iconic) Keyblade. With how much care Sakurai puts into making sure the various guest series are 100% authentically represented, I'm not sure that's a sacrifice they'd be willing to make.
Same thing with spirits. Sure, KH has enough of it's own characters at this point, but would it really be properly represented without Donald & Goofy spirits (which for obvious reasons wouldn't happen)?
Then of course there's the Disney angle itself, and if Nintendo & SE would need them to sign off on it.
Currently Playing:
Switch - Blade Strangers
PS4 - Kingdom Hearts III, Tetris Effect (VR)
@SKTTR I'm not saying using Smash as a promo tool is the right move, I'm saying Nintendo seems to already be using Smash as a promo tool. This is the key detail, you're saying using Smash as a promo tool is bad while I'm saying it's already happening.
There's a difference between useless promotion, and good promotion.
But I haven't seen useless promotion (like Master Chief or Crash Bandicoot) in Smash yet.
Who do you think is promo-only for the sake of it?
For me Banjo-Kazooie comes closest, but then again, it's not just an XBox promo. At the same time it's also a 20 year-long, 5-generations-of-wishing dream come true for hundred thousands of Smash fans. I'd have loved to play as Banjo-Kazooie (and Saki Amamiya) in Smash 64 too. I too dreamt of having those two playable as a kid (see Saki as an early 1st party promo for the upcoming Sin & Punishment 64). Banjo would have been a super-likely candidate for Melee if Rare wasn't sold to Microsoft. At that point Banjo was denied twice, and it looked like he could never make it in. Also, history and ties! Banjo had five exclusive Nintendo games from which the first two came close to (or for some even surpassed the quality of) Super Mario 64 and Mario Kart 64, not to mention tons of other Triple AAA games Rareware produced for the SNES and N64. So that's not just a Microsoft promo tool and a 20 year old fan wish, but also showing respect to the old friend Rareware. Halo is missing any of that background. Steve, too, but at least he's mega-popular around the globe, popular in Japan, popular with Nintendo, crossed over with Mario, and if the producer of Minecraft wouldn't be such a jerk about Nintendo, Steve might have even had a place in the roster before Banjo-Kazooie. Only thing Master Chief achieved was being a skin in Minecraft and being memed with Samus Aran. He's better off in an all-stars game for Xbox where he has a real history and legacy.
Joker I don't know much about, he seemed promo-only at first, but just like Final Fantasy and Dragon Quest it started as a beloved NES-and SNES-RPG series. ATLUS was one of Nintendo's very first 3rd Party's and Megami Tensei / Persona is obviously their biggest series. Shin Megami Tensei V is in development for Switch for several years now. The rest of the main series is all available on Nintendo, and even some Persona spin-offs including Joker as a character. So we have at least a Cloud situation here.
Terry and Hero are undeniably legendary. Even without a new KoF or DQ game or support from their companies they'd be appropriate to add just because of their Nintendo history and gaming legacy.
@RR529 Right, it wouldn't make sense. Sora without traces of Disney is not a real depiction of Sora anymore as he's always crossed over with Disney characters. That's his trademark. His final Smash would be a real disappointment.
He'd be against Sakurai's own rules anyway, so he is not eligible to join the roster.
However, Nintendo's not unknown for getting the Disney license as well with games such as Disney's Magical Mirror Starring Mickey Mouse (Gamecube), Disney Epic Mickey (Wii), so if Sakurai would ever open the floodgate for non-gaming-characters, there is a possibility.
Until then there are Crono (Chrono Trigger), Randy (Secret of Mana), Ark (Terranigma), Geno/Mallow (Super Mario RPG), Marina Liteyears (Mischief Makers), Bub & Bob (Bubble/Puzzle Bobble), Space Invader, tons of other Final Fantasy main characters, and Lara Croft (Tomb Raider) waiting in the queue representing more Square Enix greatness.
So I'd rank the most likely reps as 1. Heihachi/Tekken/Soul Calibur
2. Lloyd/Tales
3. Mametchi/Agumon
4. Jill / Leon
5. Monster Hunter
6. Dante
7. Ryu Hayubasa
8. Jibanyan
9. Doomguy
10. Dragonborn
11. Crash
12. Spyro
13. Tracer
14. Diablo
Neat. Here's my:
(there are just 11 free spots left though)
1. Professor Layton (LEVEL-5 rep) Feels like a Nintendo character, is welcomed by Nintendo and loved by its fans. He's like... Chibi-Robo... one with a pure heart and kind soul.
2. Crono (Chrono Trigger) Correctly rated as one of the best RPGs of all time by everyone who played it. Crono has to be in the uppermost regions if another Square Enix character is picked, maybe not so soon after Hero, but very likely anyway.
3. Frisk (UNDERTALE) For the same reasons as above, only doing it 20 years later.
Is Sans Mii Costume + one music track all we get or is there more to it? A whole stage, a whole soundtrack, a whole fighter?
4. Hayabusa (KOEI TECMO rep) Mystical Ninja Goemon's Mii Costume is foreshadowing! And nobody's seen Joe Musashi either. And KOEI TECMO don't seem to have anyone else. What happened to Dana from Solomon's Key? And where's Bomb Jack? Their other popular series are Assist Trophys / Spirits (Project Zero), or historical figures (Warriors-series, Nobunaga's Ambition, Romance of the Three Kingdoms) that aren't eligible.
5. Travis Touchdown (Grasshopper Manufacture / Suda51 rep) He's just to cool. I don't care, I just want him in there to suplex the cast. Lol, suplexing Prof. Layton with Travis Touchdown.
6. Shion / Wonder Boy (Westone rep) Yeah, more of a Sega thing, but for me, Wonder Boy was Sega's first truly great series, even if it wasn't by Sega themselves. I love Wonder Boy and Nintendo resurrected him on Wii Virtual Console and now again on Switch with plenty of new games and remakes!
7. Bub & Bob (TAITO rep) Cuteys, I'm the blue one! Popular through Bubble Bobble and Puzzle Bobble. TAITO was a big one in the 80ies, now they're part of Square Enix, so. There's a chance but it's only high if Sakurai loves the games too.
8. I wanna say Lloyd Irving (Tales of - rep) but he would be, like PAC-MAN more of a NAMCO than a BANDAI character. I have a strong feeling that it's BANDAI's turn of the two-part company now, and my bet is on Tamagotchi. Is it going to be another Mii Costume generation for Lloyd and Heihachi?
9. Marina Liteyears (Treasure rep) I'd really love to see a Treasure rep fit in there somewhere though. Once again Saki Amamiya is deconfirmed, though after two generations of being an AT, it's supposedly an upgrade that he's not an AT anymore but a Mii costume now, I think? I hope.
My other favourite (Treasure) character is Marina Liteyears from the amazing N64 exclusive Mischief Makers. Treasure, Enix, and Nintendo worked on the game together (Nintendo was the publisher). But having Enix involved would put her into the Square Enix queue, probably. Hope not. On a side note, Treasure has plenty of other great games, like Gunstar Heroes or Ikaruga, but they were more of a SEGA thing back then.
10. Bomberman (HUDSON SOFT rep, now KONAMI owned) Give this guy a chance already! I know he's guilty of Spirit/AT deconfirmation, but man, no-one would be angry if he'd be the first who gets promoted from AT/Spirit to full fighter.
11. Chibi-Robo - This is my personal Mii Costume/AT/Spirit-to-Fighter upgrade choice. Everyone should have one of those! And that's it. Roster filled.
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