Topic: Paper Mario and the Thousand Year Door!!!!!!!

Just completed a survey I was sent from Nintendo about the game.

Some fairly similar questions to the one that some people got few weeks ago but I'd say the two takeaways from it would be:

1. They seemed to be quite interested in the word-of-mouth spread of the game. Quite a few of the options in the multi-choice were things like "Heard about it from someone who played the GameCube version" and "Reccomended by a friend", things like that.

2. At one point I was presented with pictures of all the main characters in the game and asked to pick my favourites (only just starting to play the game but tried to go with the more "odd" looking characters obvs) and was then asked which type of character I liked best: Normal Mario characters, Mario characters which had been adapted (I guess they mean like Toads with moustaches) and completely unique characters.

Elsewhere, I just tried to praise the writing/edginess of the game and the battle system as much as possible! XD

Only just noticed that your partners get added to the title screen as you progress through the game.

Did this happen in the original?

@Uncle_Franklin It’s really nice touch! I don’t remember that happening in the original, but I could be wrong.

@Nintoz @Budda I really hope they’re truly considering going back to the TTYD ways. This is so much better than Origami King, and I think now nearly everyone agrees. I personally love unique characters over basic Toads.

I guess the word being spread about this game is a huge key to success, as it’s been regarded as one of Nintendo’s best games.

I wish getting these surveys wasn't so luck-based. Unless this time it's dependent on having bought the game (which I probably won't for a while), in which case that's fair.

@PikminMarioKirby Speaking as someone who likes Origami King, I have to respectfully disagree. I definitely prefer the tone, character and battle system of the first two, but I think to make the next game "just more TTYD" would be kind of regressive. Like it doesn't show you can do anything new with the series as long as it's just the thing people already like again.

I've said before that if we were to get a proper new game, it'd most likely bring together the qualities of the first two titles as well as the positive qualities of the modern titles.

I just want unique characters, a NORMAL battle system, and have the main villain not be Bowser.

@PikminMarioKirby Yeah, I don't think everyone agrees. I've seen increasingly more people this past week expressing stuff they preferred about Origami King, particularly the more open level design, permanent character deaths, comedic writing, comparative lack of backtracking, and the soundtrack. I've even seen people say TTYD is archaic by comparison which is a bit too harsh imo, but I can't say I don't see where they're coming from.

Personally, I think TTYD and TOK are the two best Paper Mario games (not counting Super because that's just a whole 'nother can of worms), and I'd ideally want Intelligent Systems to combine the best features of both games, which is already kinda happening with this remake.

@N00BiSH Well they’ve been trying to do different things since Super Paper Mario and (debatably) haven’t made a game as good as TTYD since (not counting the remake).

I like Origami King as well. I’ve played all 6 Paper Mario games (even Sticker Star/Color Splash), and I still think TTYD is the formula they need to stick with.

The TTYD remake actually takes some stuff from Origami King that it did right: the music player, concept art, pipe-warp room, and (somewhat) the art-style and music.

The world, characters, and story (while good) severely lack compared to TTYD. Gameplay isn’t that great and the battle engine is pretty boring and unrewarding in Origami King as well.

I believe TTYD remake found the best of both worlds, having the good gameplay, battle engine, story, characters, partners, music, and plot of TTYD while giving the pipe room, concept art, music player, and some inspiration on art-style/music from Origami King.

TTYD was great because it took what PM64 did and expanded it. Expanding an already good idea, using what was there and building upon it. We need a sequel for TTYD that builds off of TTYD’s foundations.

@StarryCiel People complaining about no permanent deaths in TTYD? Ngl that’s kind of a silly complaint, considering in Origami King it only happens once.

If people are complaining about that then they must’ve forgot about TTYD’s Admiral Bobbery’s story which in my opinion is significantly more sad than Origami King’s Bobby. Maybe Origami King had several jokes and the ring gameplay around that kind of ruined the moment for me? Or the fact that Other bob-ombs explode and are okay afterwards.

I know that not everyone agrees, but there is a vocal minority saying Origami King is better. I still think most people think TTYD is better, and even more people are agreeing since people are playing this for the first time. I think it’s pretty much a fact that people want unique characters with personalities, and if people disagree, that’s just what Paper Mario is about, and there’s other Mario games with more generic characters.

Origami King’s jokes often feel forced compared to TTYD. I’m playing through TTYD and forgot how funny some of the characters were! (especially Bowser)

Also it seems like a lot of the backtracking is gone as well, from what I’ve heard. I think Origami King has some of it as well, if I remember correctly. Origami King’s open-ness led to less puzzles (and the fact that partners don’t really help with most puzzles)

Overall, Origami King is good. I believe certain aspects of it are pretty awesome. Even if a lot of people are talking about some of Origami King’s better aspects, that doesn’t mean that TTYD isn’t better. 2 games both have things that are better and worse than each other. Now people are seeing what’s better in TTYD (characters, plot, partners, battle engine, puzzles, dialogue) and what’s better in Origami King (some open-ness, less backtracking, better pipe-room, concept art and music player)

Somewhat, TTYD is giving the best of both worlds, and I couldn’t be happier about it.

My point is that IntSys should listen to both fans of TTYD and TOK because what they want doesn't really conflict each other. You can have a good battle system like in TTYD and good level design like in TOK, you can have more diverse characters like in TTYD and more stakes in your story like in TOK, the stuff people like about both of these games aren't mutually exclusive and to just go back to emulating TTYD only feels regressive when there are six games worth of lessons to take from.

@StarryCiel Yes I believe these are the two games it should take after the most.

However, I don’t think it should take much from Sticker Star. To me that’s exactly what I don’t want from the franchise.

I think it is good to learn from what’s not good for the franchise and what is good from the games for the future of the series.

(Someone at Nintendo):

Ok, ok, hear me out.

But what if- keep listening- we took the main villain and fused it with Bowser.

@Eel You've just described every final boss in the Mario & Luigi series

I mean, at least in most of the M&L games the main villain was still not Bowser. xD
(even if they decide to fuse/posses him at the very end or something, lol)

And other times the main villain is two Bowsers.

That was just that one game, though. lol

@PikminMarioKirby Yes, the TTYD remake did a good job of bridging the past and future together, but that doesn't mean you can't push it further. Origami King's strength wasn't just in its presentation; the elements you mentioned(world, characters, writing and even the battle system in some points) were handled well for what it was trying to do, as divisive as the results were, and came together to form a decent title that honestly came close to matching up with TTYD. In some cases, OK actually surpassed TTYD in a few of those areas.

This is very accurate. Most of people's issues with TOK are generally not the things fans would die on a hill to defend. No one talking about TOK is like "I sure do hate most RPG mechanics and named characters!" while playing a turn based video game.

Similarly I don't think any TTYD fan (especially not me) is like "my games require really boring and unnecessary backtracking and don't you dare make the overworld gameplay more interesting!"

I'm glad this re-release of TTYD is getting people to critically re-examine the game a bit. It's good, yeah, but heavily flawed in certain respects, especially compared to The Origami King. Nintendo can and should draw from the best aspects of both games.