Topic: Bayonetta 1, 2, and 3?!

@MarcelRguez Given the exhibitionistic nature of the character, the camera zooming in for butt or leg shots makes perfect sense. The portrayal of the character feeds into and expands the characterization. Notice how often she seems to be actively posing for a camera shot?

A person can be uncomfortable with that all they like, and it's absolutely meant to be titillating, but that doesn't make it sexist or exploitative.

....Do we seriously have to talk about this crap?...It's a video game of a woman beating up massive monsters with her own fists...Who cares if she's naked all the time and only having her own hair covering her up.

I tried Bayonetta 1 on PS3 and didn't like it at all. I heard it was a bad quality port, so that could be the reason. One of my all time favorite games is Devil May Cry, so I hope this game will be great.

10/10 projecting. Regardless of your revolutionary argument of 'So you can't handle how naked the men making Bayonetta made her be!?' I'm more concerned for how her portrayal and others like it detaches how men and women see women from the actual, realistic way you should treat other human beings. And please no one give me one of those "I'm a woman and I don't have a problem with it" responses. I mean women at large so, while your opinion is as valid as everyone else's, an individual cannot speak for the whole, etc, etc you get the point.

And @NEStalgia, while it's true that the body idealism of games is, to some extent, applied to both sexes, that doesn't make it okay in either case. I've railed against space marines and Blizzard's ridiculous gendering of its characters at times, but the thing is He-Man's crotch is not crafted to be stared at. Most playable characters in games tends toward power fantasy, but disproportionately women also are created to embody a male (and I guess other interested sexualities) sex fantasy.

But specifically about Bayonetta, I don't think anyone turns off their TV after Bayonetta calls a demon out of a summoning circle in her crotch. People who play games happily gorge on demons and violence for their own sake, myself included. I don't see how that's a turn off for anyone already invested in the space.

I think this could do with being restated. The Japanese collector's edition for the games we're both talking about right now is, in real life, called the "Non-Stop Climax Edition." Who's climax do we think that is, exactly?

Like I was saying before, in an ideal world there is nothing problematic about female sexuality. However, you have to take into account the terms of the time. The game industry is disproportionately male, female characters are rare, and the sexuality or simply prettiness of those characters is not so much a choice as it is a dogma. You can find Twitter accounts dedicated to lampooning the way in which male writers writer female characters like erotica, with little detail or attention paid to their character or inner workings. I mean, there is literally another Platinum/Clover game where the companion character is constantly sneaking into a woman's dress and it's played off as a joke. And many other cases like that.

And just because I get the feeling it could do with saying, you can enjoy a thing and admit it has moral faults at the same time. How else could anyone watch most anime? It doesn't have to be one or the other 'I like this so it is ABSOLUTELY NOT problematic in any way' — what I was making fun of in the first place.

Isn't the climax a game mechanic in the games?

(and also a term that exists outside of the realm of sexuality?)

sighs and sits in the corner, waiting for this whole thing to end >_>

I agree with Shulk.

@NEStalgia Yeah, I'm not a big fan of the DOA type of games, or the bikini armor in a lot of RPGs, I fail to see how it's even remotely attractive, and I assume that's often the biggest motive behind these tropes. But Bayonetta is certainly different. It's so over the top, it's almost a parody, in a good way. And not even in an attractive way I think. And she's certainly a strong character. Sometimes it feels like I'm out of the loop with this kind of stuff, I expected people to like the Wonder Woman film this year, but instead they complained about her armpits! You can't please everyone I guess.

That being said, I need to finish Bayonetta 2 sooner than later, but my Wii U is still boxed and stored somewhere, I haven't seen it since I moved house earlier this year. I expect this to be a 2019 title, so no hurry!

@Haru17 Well, you know, on that note, Bayonetta was actually designed by a woman, so talking about how she is the way MEN made her is a bit disingenuous, but I think your post has made it clear you're not actually interested in the feelings or opinions of women on this matter at all.

The creators of these games have no moral obligation to make her portrayal realistic so as not to confuse the poor saps who can't help comparing real women with her or other characters like her. In fact, that would pretty much neuter her characterization, which is intended to be larger than life and flamboyant. Moreover, your wider concerns about the effects of media consumption on human behavior and perception have nothing to do with whether Bayonetta's portrayal is sexist or not.

@MarcelRguez I'm not saying there aren't legitimately sexist portrayals of women in media, but you being put off by Bayonetta's open sexuality says more about your prudishness than anything about the game. There is absolutely nothing inherently sexist about sexual portrayals of women in media, even ones meant to provoke titillation. As I said earlier, sexy and sexist are two entirely different things.

And Bayonetta is "in on the joke" frequently throughout the games. Does she literally need to break the fourth wall with the in-game camera every single time for this to become apparent? The in-game camera is a part of her character. She's certainly not being victimized by it like in a Senran Kagura game or something.

@Octane I'm generally not a fan of DC comics-based movies or the actors chosen to portray the iconic characters featured in them, but Gal Godot was perfectly cast as Wonder Woman. She exudes kindness, grace, strength, and inner fortitude almost equally, which makes her seem like she's really channeling the character.

Good to know that the creative contributions of Kamiya's wife don't matter because her internalized misogyny makes her a mere extension of her husband.

Maybe we should just change Bayonetta into a guy and call it a day, that would solve all the problems it seems!

@Ralizah I haven't watched Wonder Woman yet, but I'm a big fan of Nolan's Batman trilogy, and Watchmen. I know, completely different directors, but I tend to prefer DC over Marvel. I shall give it a watch whenever it comes to Netflix!

By the way, to everyone, I'm fine with this discussion, but just a friendly reminder to keep it civil! I hope that goes without saying.

I want my Bayonetto to use shotguns and army boots. Plz.

Also, it needs to be magical chest hair.

@Ralizah @MarcelRguez Her name is Mari Shimazaki. She's also done design work for Soul Calibur, Okami, and Fire Emblem Fates. Here's a post of her discussing how and why she designed Bayonetta the way she did, what parts were her idea and insistence, and what came as suggestions from outside sources.

https://www.platinumgames.com/official-blog/article/1278

I'm ducking back out of this mess, just wanted someone to at least state her name if people are going to try and trample on her, plus it's a fascinating read.

Dante?!

How about magical nose hair?

The facial hair should be magical too. Good idea.

@Octane I vastly prefer DC over Marvel, but Marvel is inarguably better at the whole cinematic universe thing. It's also worth mentioning that, even though he's a DC character, I don't consider Nolan's Batman films to be DC comic films.

(and, regarding Watchmen... read the GN if you haven't already. The film tones down the disturbing and thought-provoking themes of the original comic and amps up the violence and sexual content to a ludicrous degree. The original GN is a work of literature, whereas the movie just seems like it's trying to be edgy.)

Wonder Woman isn't perfect, but it's a masterpiece in comparison to most other recent DC comic adaptations. It's a decent superhero flick that is elevated by the strength of Godot's performance.

Oh, and no worries. I've said what I've wanted to say, so there's no point in persisting in a conversation that has nowhere productive left to go. Sorry if I ruffled any feathers in the process!

@link3710 That's actually a really fantastic contribution! I'll give it a read in a bit.

One thing I didn't like about Bayonetta was that they added too many moves. Much like DMC (2013) this just ruined the experience. Dodging, jumping and attacking is all a game like that needs.

I hope Bayonetta 3 will be great, but I will probably wait until the reviews are out before I decide whether to buy it or not.

https://www.nin-nin-game.com/en/nintendo-switch-new-games/256...

You have exactly 30 minutes left to order the special Climax Edition contents from Nin-Nin Games.

Includes the double-sided steel book and a physical game case for the first game. Note that this does not include the actual games but just the special edition contents. The actual Climax Edition already sold out, and I'm not sure if the physical version of the first game has English or not, so this is a good alternative imo. At least you will have physical game cases for both games.

30 minutes on the timer...

@Ralizah Yeah, that's what I gathered. I'm not a big fan of super hero films in general, but I like Nolan's work — The Prestige and Dunkirk are among my favourite films of all time — so that could explain why I also liked the Batman trilogy. Watchmen is just unlike your typical superhero film.

That's always the case with adaptations, isn't it? But as someone who hasn't read the comics, I liked the film.

And don't worry, it wasn't directed at anyone in particular, it was just a general reminder!