I definitely want them to continue with open world. Yes, we have gotten a lot of open world games, but open world fits the philosophy of Pokemon very well. You're adventuring through a vast region trying to befriend a custom team of Pokemon, as a trainer with a customized name and appearance. It's a very personalized experience, so it would only be fitting if you could also go wherever you want instead of having to explore areas in a scripted order.
My only real criticism with the open world in SV is the lack of level scaling. Sure you can nominally fight gyms in any order but when the consequence of that is you end up massively underleveled and need to rely on gimmicky strategies to win? That pretty much undermines the point. It's also made worse by the gym order being fairly inorganic, they seem to expect you to explore the region in a bizarre order based on the levels of the bosses. As for the solution, it's really simple and something they've done in the past: just have the gym leaders have different teams based on the number of badges you already have.
Other assorted wants and desires (some of these are probably unrealistic but this is a hopes and wishes thread so I'm still saying them anyway):
-Bring back diving, but make it more like a typical action adventure game. The 3D Marios are a good example of how diving should work in a 3D open world Pokemon game.
-A riding/following system similar to LGPE, but now any Pokemon can use field moves if it makes sense. Also uses a physics engine similar to BotW that allows you to use different types of field moves to deal with different obstacles. For example, if there's a tree in the way you could cut it down with a Scyther, burn it down with a Charmander, or ram into it with a Rhyhorn.
-Bring back the EL system from Legends Arceus. It's much easier to affect than EVs/IVs.
-I'm okay with having a Rotom Phone again, but we need actual gadgets again like what we had with past devices like the Pokegear, Pokenav, and Poketch. Some examples of useful apps it should have:
-Habitat List
-Clock/Calendar app. They could also use this to record the duration of events such as Raid events,
-Some kind of rematch mechanic like the Phone/Trainer's Eyes/Vs. Seeker (preferably Vs. Seeker)
-Expand the Pokedex to actually make it a useful resource for finding information like how it's supposed to be in canon. Have it be like Serebii or Bulbapedia where it can display things like moves, stats, evolution methods, type matchups, etc.
-Bring back interesting side modes like Contests, Pokeathlon, and Pokestar Studios (not Musicals. Musicals were bad).
-Return of Secret Bases or some type of similar decoration mode. They could potentially make this a feature of the Amie/Refresh/Camping/Picnic equivalent.
-Let Pokemon evolve mid-battle
-Create some series of hold items, one for each region, (I would say regional stones but Go already does that and they might not copy it) to allow the holder to evolve/breed into their regional forms.
Something I forgot to mention before, I really hope that the new games keep the quality of life changes seen in the 2 Legends titles. After PLA, some really good QoL was weirdly absent in Scarlet and Violet, only to return in PL:ZA. The quality of life changes I most want to see return are:
Catching Pokemon in the overworld without needing to enter battle.
Being able to select which Pokemon to lead with in battle without needing to pause the game.
Manual evolution from the menu.
Using Pokemon models rather than sprites or drawings in the box/team screens (I like to see my shinies).
Effort Level system.
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@UpsideDownRowlet I think they mainly did that because PLA and SV were developed simultaneously for most of their development so they couldn't really share ideas. Gen 10 is a better litmus test to see if those mechanics make the jump to the main series since that game will have started development after PLA released.
Bring back turn-based for main battles. The Z-A battles just...weren't as interesting. I ended up using far less strategy and more just spamming.
Some type of mounts or vehicles. I enjoyed the movement skills in Arceus and S/V
Good plot. The S/V plot was great and I want more like that.
Good outfits (Z-A did this well if expensively; S/V was awful)
Medium wants:
level scaling if open world
Overworld interaction with Pokemon. Just.. the more cute things the better.
Auto-murdering - I mostly liked this in S/V although it would ideally be tweaked.
New boss mechanics. I like battling big enraged Pokemon but the 'beat boss by running in circles/dodging' which both Legends games essentially had is slightly stale.
Better towns than S/V. We just got two extremes with cardboard town cutouts in S/V and an amazing urban environment in Z-A. Something in-between would be nice.
I want a region that is similar in openness to Kanto or Johto. Not being able to just go in any direction, but to have actual routes and towns to explore while minimising arbitrary roadblocks. Something that has a sense of direction but isn’t afraid to let you off the beaten track. Sun/Moon was way too linear, and Scarlet/Violet way too open imo.
I want them to ditch some of the ideas that have stuck with Pokemon since the beginning. Get rid of generations, or at least make things more ambiguous (I think they’re on their way to this tbf). Challenge what makes a main game by experimenting with different structures and gameplay (again, seen to be doing this with Legends). Oh, and try something other than the Grass/Fire/Water starter trio and box legendaries.
Also more of what Legends Z-A excelled at please (Pokemon discovery in the overworld, and new battle system).
I want them to ditch some of the ideas that have stuck with Pokemon since the beginning. Get rid of generations, or at least make things more ambiguous (I think they’re on their way to this tbf). Challenge what makes a main game by experimenting with different structures and gameplay (again, seen to be doing this with Legends). Oh, and try something other than the Grass/Fire/Water starter trio and box legendaries.
I don't think some of these will ever happen. What defines a generation has definitely blurred, but I don't think they'll ever abandon the concept of a game that takes place in a new region with a large pool of new pokemon, new characters, and a new plot. It's just too easy to market and the new generation games sell too well for them to stop.
As for the type triangle, it does get tiring if you've played Pokemon a while, but for kids that have never played a Pokemon game before it's the best way to teach type matchups. After all, everyone can easily recognize that Fire burns Grass, Water douses Fire, and Grass absorbs Water. It's harder to demonstrate that with other types.
One more thought. Since it's the 10th generation... I think it would be neat if they added a new standard type. I realize that would cause chaos but it would be fun. 😆 Sound Type or something else.
As for the type triangle, it does get tiring if you've played Pokemon a while, but for kids that have never played a Pokemon game before it's the best way to teach type matchups. After all, everyone can easily recognize that Fire burns Grass, Water douses Fire, and Grass absorbs Water. It's harder to demonstrate that with other types.
I always thought the grass beats water was a bit of a logical stretch so it's really 2 logical ones plus one that can be remembered. Other triangles are almost as easy to remember.
Steel Rock Fire is pretty logical because of course steel is stronger than rock and can be melted by fire. Rock smothering fire is... at least a thing which can be remembered.
I suppose that triangle isn't great since it has fire again. If you wanted to be totally unique, they could do Fighting Rock Flying. Fighters killing rocks in karate chops and rocks being thrown at birds are easy to remember. Birds beating fighters is a little weirder... but you can remember that fighters are close-range so it almost makes sense.
Anyways, I think they could change it up pretty easily. Now that it's being talked about I wish they would change it.
@FishyS First of all, while Grass beats Water is a bit of a stretch it's still based on a common phenomenon. Everyone knows that you can water a plant to make it grow.
Furthermore, it's not just the matchup logic, it's that Grass, Fire, and Water are common elements that people can recognize as types. Fighting, Rock, and Flying (particularly Fighting and Flying) aren't really as recognizable.
@FishyS First of all, while Grass beats Water is a bit of a stretch it's still based on a common phenomenon. Everyone knows that you can water a plant to make it grow.
Furthermore, it's not just the matchup logic, it's that Grass, Fire, and Water are common elements that people can recognize as types. Fighting, Rock, and Flying (particularly Fighting and Flying) aren't really as recognizable.
I admit to often getting mixed up about plant water because I think of plants drowning, another common phenomenon. It's just not one of those basic earth air water fire match ups.
If it's a new player, I feel like anything is probably fine. birds are a pretty recognizable type of animal, although I admit 'fighting' is a weirder category. Although fighting and flying are common pokemon I personally have almost always had in my team since early in my first ever game. At the time I didn't really understand any of the matchups including the basic ones, I just picked things which I liked 😆
One more thought. Since it's the 10th generation... I think it would be neat if they added a new standard type. I realize that would cause chaos but it would be fun. 😆 Sound Type or something else.
Forgot to respond to this.
Game Freak really only creates new types in response to imbalances in the type chart, particularly when one type becomes OP and needs nerfing. Dark and Steel were introduced as counters to Psychic because there were no quality counters in 1st gen (granted Steel isn't a direct counter but it does resist Psychic so you could certainly switch one in). Fairy was introduced because Dragon became OP over time (in earlier generations there weren't as many Pokemon or moves but by 5th gen it had developed into an OP monster). At this point in the series I don't think there's any type that stands out as OP like Psychic and Dragon were, and certainly not to the degree where such a type is as centralizing as those were (maybe Fairy and Steel kind of are, but they still have quality counters so I wouldn't say they're OP), so I don't think they're considering new types right now.
@Bolt_Strike You're probably right. That's why I said it would cause chaos to add a new type — it would be potentially adding lack of balance rather than balance. I doubt they will do it, I just think it would be fun. As someone who just plays for fun and doesn't care about the competitive aspect, I just want something new and weird.
@FishyS No, I get it. The typings are getting stale at this point. By the time Gen 10 comes out, the same number of generations will have passed since Fairy than between when Dark/Steel and Fairy were introduced. And they're almost out of new type combinations with only 9 combos that have yet to be represented (Normal/Rock, Normal/Bug, Normal/Ice, Normal/Steel, Fire/Fairy, Rock/Ghost, Ground/Fairy, Bug/Dragon, and Poison/Ice) and they'll probably finish them off by Gen 11, if not this next game, at the rate they burn through them. So what then after that? What's going to make new Pokemon concepts interesting? A new typing feels appropriate from that perspective but Game Freak's MO is to use typings to nerf OP types so It's probably not happening anytime soon if ever again.
What's going to make new Pokemon concepts interesting?
As y'all have said, I don't think they'll do a new typing, not this late into the series. Now, what they COULD do to mix things up (I don't know if they would, it would still have some problems) is increase the max amount of typings from two to three. Could be a cool little thing to do once they finish all the dual typings. 🤷🏻♂️
@HyruleWanderer They'd never do triple types, it's too unbalanced. Then you'd have x8 weaknesses (for example, what if you had a Grass/Bug/Steel type, then it'd be x8 weak to Fire) and that would be utterly unsurvivable, x4 are bad enough.
The presentation definitely needs to improve. I don't exactly have high hopes, but I did find it genuinely distracting especially in Scarlet and Violet. Everything looks so flat and bland looking.
Its not a hardware issue or anything. Plenty of games look great on Switch, just seems like a developmental problem.
@Bolt_Strike Regarding the type triangle - fair point, I just hope they find a way to mix it up a bit. I’m sure there are other ways to show type advantages without necessarily having the starters follow a type triangle. It could be demonstrated via the first few encounters you have.
As for new types and triple types: no thanks. I think Pokemon risks being too complex and the type chart is already at its limit of complexity. If anything I wouldn’t mind them having a go at resetting it - maybe do something like the TCG where they have vaguely the same types but they’re grouped/interpreted in a different way.
People often complain that Pokemon removes gimmicks every generation but I think it’s for good reason tbh. Up until generation 7 Pokemon was always increasing in complexity with new Pokemon, moves, types, items, etc. I think to truly add something new and of value some of the old needs to be removed or reinvented - otherwise things become unwieldy. I’m not suggesting Game Freak dumb down their games (maybe Let’s Go Pikachu was a step too far)…but i do think things need a good shaking up (rather than being iterative as they have been) and the Legends games have, IMO, been a good start for this.
Regarding the type triangle - fair point, I just hope they find a way to mix it up a bit. I’m sure there are other ways to show type advantages without necessarily having the starters follow a type triangle. It could be demonstrated via the first few encounters you have.
Technically they could, but I don't think it would be better than what they have now for casuals and new/younger players. Less experienced players are probably going to be using their starters frequently if not primarily in the early game, so having the starter interact with the type matchups is an easier way to teach them matchups. It shows that different Pokemon have different strengths and weaknesses and you can't just bulldoze through the game with your starter.
As for new types and triple types: no thanks. I think Pokemon risks being too complex and the type chart is already at its limit of complexity. If anything I wouldn’t mind them having a go at resetting it - maybe do something like the TCG where they have vaguely the same types but they’re grouped/interpreted in a different way.
Ew no. Removing types would have a massive effect on the metagame, probably too massive, and conceptually some of these Pokemon don't work for a more simplified types. For example, the TCG condenses Bug and Poison into Grass and that doesn't entirely work, Poison especially has some concepts based on urban pollutants rather than natural toxins so they wouldn't fit Grass whatsoever. Rock/Ground being folded into Fighting doesn't really work well either, I could see combining Rock and Ground because that was always a weird distinction and they're similar concepts (driven home by how many Rock/Ground types there are in Gen 1), but the two don't really have much in common with Fighting (see Water/Rock Corsola for example, does Corsola feel like a "fighter"?). Rock/Ground is the only simplification here that could really work, the others are too unique.
People often complain that Pokemon removes gimmicks every generation but I think it’s for good reason tbh. Up until generation 7 Pokemon was always increasing in complexity with new Pokemon, moves, types, items, etc. I think to truly add something new and of value some of the old needs to be removed or reinvented - otherwise things become unwieldy. I’m not suggesting Game Freak dumb down their games (maybe Let’s Go Pikachu was a step too far)…but i do think things need a good shaking up (rather than being iterative as they have been) and the Legends games have, IMO, been a good start for this.
I mean sometimes optimization is good if things get too bloated, but I don't think the series really has that issue with things like types or battle mechanics. You mentioned the gimmicks, but they really don't shake things up much with those. It's usually some super powered form and/or move and they tend to overlap. Dynamax isn't really functionally any different from Megas and Z-Moves, it's just different branding. Terastallization has an interesting mechanic with type changes, but it really just relies on move boosts so it's not really incompatible with something like Z-Moves. And then you have Max Raid Battles being directly replaced with Tera Raid Battles which aside from a real time battling experiment is functionally identical, so if we constantly get a Raid battle equivalent with each gimmick (which would make sense because it Raid Battles do promote multiplayer and allow them to have evergreen content with rotating Raid events) that's not really adding something new and valuable, that's just doing the same thing over and over again but branding it as something different. Now I do think that these gimmicks are a good candidate for something to change up over and over again simply because they're extras rather than key mechanics, like having different sauces/seasonings to help the same meal feel different. But to say it's really doing something new is not quite accurate when they've still been using the same core ingredients.
Now what they've been doing with the Legends games, yes, that's something different. The thing is though, the Legends games' changes have been mainly focused around transitioning the battling from a separated, turn-based battle style into an integrated, real-time battle style. And once that transition is complete (and perhaps it is with Z-A), that well dries up. So there may not actually be anything to "take further" here, they may have gone as far as they can go with that direction.
Now if they do want to optimize the game a bit more, I think most of the smarter optimizations are in smaller areas like items and moves. There's a lot of redundant items in the game that could be cut, especially evolution items. They introduced a ton of evolution items for cross-gen evos as a way to explain why said evos didn't exist in previous games, but at this point they've stopped bothering with that level of continuity (and it didn't entirely hold up to begin with, Lickitung could learn Rollout in Gens 2 and 3 and could not evolve into Lickilicky) so they should just cut some of them. The Incenses and trade evolution items are good candidates for this. As for moves, there's some that exist simply as simply earlier, lower-powered or later, higher-powered options to satisfy progression. Think something like Ember vs. Flamethrower. And then some legendaries have signature moves that are mainly just stronger variants of more conventional/accessible moves, such as Mewtwo's Psystrike being a stronger Psyshock and Giratina's Shadow Force being a stronger Phantom Force (although really Shadow Force/Phantom Force is the opposite scenario with Shadow Force being introduced first and Phantom Force being created to give more Ghosts another option for a physical Ghost STAB, but it still fits). Perhaps if they create a mechanic to increase a move's BP as you progress the game they could trim some of these out. Other RPGs have done such a mechanic, so Pokemon could look to some of those if they want to trim their moves.
In general though, I don't think some of these simplifications are done for optimization purposes. Game Freak doesn't have enough coding expertise to do that. I think the real reason is because they're just trimming features they see as expendable to make the tight deadlines that they're saddled with. Notice how many things cut throughout the years aren't really replaced with something comparable, they're just... gone. We used to have in-depth side modes like Contests, the Pokeathlon, Musicals, and Pokestar Studios what did they replace those with? What about the Battle Frontier, other unique battle facilities, and battling formats not named Singles or Doubles? What happened to Secret Bases and other decoration modes? What happened to the regional gadgets and the useful apps they came with (compare earlier ones like the Pokenav and Poketch to the Rotom Phone that basically does nothing gameplay wise and it's a stark difference)? The most likely reason behind these removals is not because they wanted to make room for new things, it's that they transitioned to stronger hardware with graphical features that are notoriously time consuming (like 3D graphics, HD resolution, and open world environments) and the powers that be in Pokemon refused to give them extra time to get this right, so we just get flat out inferior experiences.
I don't feel like going to the trouble of picking a specific section to quote, but to reply to a specific point by @Bolt_Strike: I feel that there is still plenty of room for growth regarding how the battle system was handled in Legends Z-A. Mainly in the form of implementing Abilities, but also in regards to the battle environment (which includes weather and terrain moves, which weren't included in this game). Not to mention that they were virtually only adapting elements that were introduced in previous games - who knows what hey can come up with now that they've got a functioning template.
And I don't doubt that they're using Legends Z-A ranked battles (with participation incentivized by the exclusive Mega Stones) to analyze and take notes on what works and what doesn't.
@BrazillianCara Adding abilities, weather, and terrain also fits into the category of adapting elements from previous games though, that's not growth. Growth would be adding something new that wasn't in a previous game.
Something else I would most definitely like to see seasons make a return from Gen 5. The changes in the environment and Pokemon spawns could be a great feature in modern titles (and frankly, it would've been perfect for Z-A, but I digress).
I see there is a bit of a discussion going on about adding in new types or even a triple type mechanic, so I'll throw my hat into the ring. I am definitely in favor of adding one or more new types. I'd like for Gen 10 to introduce Light and Sound types into the mix, as they both have a strong potential for many good Pokemon designs. Triple types, though, I do not believe would work. It would overcomplicate both the balancing of the game and the designs of any Pokemon with 3 types.
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Topic: Next Pokémon Game Hopes and Wishes
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