I need to catch up on this thread, it’s such an evolving situation and it’s interesting to see how different governments are approaching the crisis. The social impacts on individuals are many and varied too once restrictions are in place.
It sure seems like almost no one is taking this stay home thing seriously. When i go out it's just for food or things i need. I see so many cars out on the streets and there's no way all of them are just driving to places that are essential. It's like nobody cares or they're just shrugging and saying meh it won't happen to me. Oh and you know those touch screen drink machines they have at all the fast food joints? They're still letting people use those like it's perfectly fine. Those things are not helping the situation! Come to think of it if there's a stay at home order why are restaurants still doing carry out? You're not supposed to leave your house but come on in and get a burger to go! Germs for everyone!
@Zeldafan79 Same here, dood. I’m only going to work (in my 3 person annex building), grocery store, and the dump (where I don’t even touch anything). But there’s still cars packed with people riding around.
#MudStrongs
Switch Friend Code: SW-7842-2075-5515 | My Nintendo: HobbitGamr
Well another problem is that telling people to self-quarantine without giving the support to do so is stupid. (This is applying to those who are working btw, not those that go out to party who is super stupid and should be fined or something because of that)
>told to do self quarantine
>job is telling you to come work
>of course you have to go????
Another possibility
>people that can only work day-by-day (laborers for example)
>people that has to go out for their work
There's a lot of things that can go wrong, and to just keep saying STAY HOME is kinda... hard? Not everyone can do it because of financial reason as the biggest.
@NEStalgia
This isn’t the first virus to spread around the planet and it certainly won’t be the last. Plagues and disease been around since the dawn of time. This is just the first time you’ve personally lived through one so your recency bias makes it seem like it’s some new phenomena that’s evidence of something it’s not.
And things here are made to be consumed. That’s why they were put here in the first place for our benefit. We’re not running out of farmland so much as idiotic regulations are interfering. The issue you’re referring to, such as India, seems like a city issue more than a space issue. Lots of cities have poor conditions.
Sure seems like as population increases, so does the probability of a technological breakthrough, and so does the standard of living. The data speaks for itself as the population has increased from just 1 billion to 8 billion
@Nintenarms
Not arguing there. But that’s an effect of modern technology. Air travel. Motor vehicles. Etc. For all the benefits they’ve brought us, this is definitely a downside.
I know how you feel, I work for Goodwill Industries and the managers have to keep donation centers open because most donors are so selfish, they donate whether or not the sites are closed. Further, Tennessee laws forbid from donations from piling up due to health concerns. I am more concerned of my manager's safety while I'm at home. I even went over there to see if she was alright and offered to help. People should be going out for groceries if they are not working for an essential business, and that's it.
There's being a good steward, and then there's crazed obsession and bankrupting nations in an effort to nudge a needle one tiny smidge.
Combative quips with hyperbolic metaphors dont change minds. Certainly won't change mine. I am always open to hearing a rational arguments and I try to always keep an open mind if someone wants to present a case to change my mind. But I’m not receptive to mockery, or people who don’t respect the opinions of others when they don’t mesh with their own. I haven’t let emotion override anything I’ve said to mock or ridicule the beliefs of others, even if I believe it’s utter stupidity and a waste and will ultimately do incredible damage, and I expect the same in return, even if you think my beliefs are stupid and will do damage.
What’s important is to learn how to respect others opinions, especially those you disagree with, without letting emotion rule what you say.
I've mostly been keeping to my house. I'm more than capable of working from home and, as an introvert, generally don't get out of the house more than I have to and try to stay out of the space of others (I have minor Agoraphobia and like my own space, thanks). Other than a grocery run, dropping by my parents' place for something, and a brief appointment this week, I haven't been around people much. But....
I have been getting outside to exercise. My house isn't the most ideal space for it (believe me, I've tried), and it just isn't the same as getting outdoors. I've been trying to steer clear of people, of course; half the time I've been going to a school that can only be accessed via the highway and walking the concrete pavement surrounding it. Other times I've been walking through more deserted areas of the nearby town where there are sidewalks. I occasionally do meet someone when walking, but I try to give them their space.
@LzWinky
I grew up in Dallas, TX and spent 5 years in Tuscaloosa, AL in the heart of Tornado Alley. Literally had a tornado hop over our house, split three giant oaks in the public park two blocks behind our house, bent the tree in our front yard to the point the top of the tree was touching the grass... I remember when the mall in Tuscaloosa was destroyed by a tornado, too. So I definitely know the dangers they pose firsthand.
But the truth is, statistically speaking most people are fine who live in the south. I wouldn’t worry too much. Plus storm cellars are pretty common down there (because basements aren’t that common).
@darkfenrir
Question is, is it safer because you’re wearing a mask, or safer because everyone else is? If it’s the latter, then you going out and wearing a mask when nobody else is might not provide much of a safety net. That said, I think you’re on the right track. Even if they don’t protect from infection, they can prevent transmission. Why states aren’t ordering people to wear masks in public, or even companies ordering workers to wear them when on the job, is beyond me.
That could be a very easy solution. I may have to buy some now.
^like the one in this chart is pretty good, and if you go double layer is better. Do remember that masks are also very desperately needed by hospitals too right now
@MortalKombat2007 I can't agree with that. The idea of governments as gatekeepers of reality, designed to shape the right reality they see fit is both terrifying, very much the problem in China that got us here to begin with, and helps lead to permanent distrust of all authority - of you know they always hide the truth and tell you what they want you to know, you simply go looking for the "real"truth elsewhere. And you'll find it. All 37 different versions of it. With public data there's no hiding, no manipulation, everyone knows what the reality is without looking for the Art Bell conspiracy version of it (i do miss Art though... ). BUT the problem remains documenting that data so it's clear what it does mean, doesn't mean, and how the numbers are to be used. This isn't a time to spend effort better hiding information, it's A time to spend effort better documenting information. Hiding information is how this thing ever left Hubei.
@Zeldafan79 stay at home orders aren't entirely house arrest. Food is still valid, medical is still valid, etc. I somewhat agree on food, but really, isn't takeout from a restaurant that has 4 people working in it safer than a supermarket with 50 employees and 300 shoppers? I can't get myself to do takeout, still, but at the same time logically i know that's probably the safer option when i really think it though... But the stigma.... Going food shopping is harrowing regardless. Every time i need food I feel like I've reset the two week timer to find out if this is the time it all falls down. I keep trying not to, but you can only go so long eating iffy maybe-expired good.... And when you go, you can't stockpile to not go back for 2 more weeks because everything is limit 2. It's like they WANT us interacting with people as much as possible.
I agree on all the traffic, I'd commented a week ago in another thread to someone about that. I expected to go out and find a Fallout wasteland, and instead i was greeted by gridlock. Traffic was a little lighter than usual, but was perfectly normal traffic for 5 or 8 years ago before they started heavily urbanizing the area. It was absurd. Still waiting for several traffic lights just to squeeze through. Total gridlock. Where are they all going? The restaurant half of the supermarket parking lot was empty, so it's not food. I'm the supermarket people weren't distancing at all. Shoulder to shoulder in cramped aisles as always.
@gcunit That was a wonderful metaphor. Jax may have taken it as a personal attack but you honestly negated the need for my much longer comment, because you really crystalized the statement graphically.
@jaxonh this isn't the place to go much more into that, conversation, so I won't do much, and i actually do agree with you regarding the environmentalism aspect, so we're on the same line of thought in some aspects, but it's leave only the idea that whole resources may be meant to consume, observation and reason are also meant to be used. We don't have those tools for no reason. Irresponsibly and willful ignorance of the effects of our actions on others aren't saintly virtues. Multiplying indefinitely forever without restraint until the host environment is consumed simply can't be humans role. It IS a virus' role. I certainly wouldn't tell you to not keep your faith, only to suggest that a deeper look into the real meanings of beliefs of your faith might not be a bad idea. A lot of religious values are misunderstood in common use only because people give only a cursory glance without a theological context to understand fully.
It is that very thinking that has brought us the uncontrollable spread of this disease. Yeah plagues existed before but that was my point. If we don't control our population, nature, God, alien overlords, whatever your belief, always, always does it for us this way. That's what we're seeing. The automatic pruning we failed to do. In a much much uglier manner.
We are depleting farm land at record pace. It's vanishing inch by inch. Every inch of land possible is being developed with more humans packing in, while relying more and more on centralized, globalized corporate farms held by handfuls of companies and based mostly on international exports. It's held together not by natural crops but by manufactured proprietary seeds designed not to reproduce (so they need to be purchased from the mfr annually). They've been hybridized to reduce nutrients and flavor in favor of maximizing maximize yield to be used in conjunction with set chemical treatments at specific times available from single sources. Some crops are sprayed with known toxic chemicals just before harvesting to maximize yield further. This guarantees maximum utilization of a minimum of agricultural real estate, total dependence on a handful of suppliers, and requires global supply to centralize production efficiency. In light of this, smaller and less concentrated farmlands have been deemed infective and unnecessary and successfully more valuable developed as residential and commercial real estate.
And the whole thing depends on no interruptions in supply -ever. To feed an ever growing population.
What does food look like with growing population post cov2? See you for cov3?
@NEStalgia
We won’t multiply indefinitely forever, though. That was part of my original statement. I believe we’re very close to the end, for a multitude of reasons I won’t get into. But to call all of human life a “virus” is, to me, a perversion. Individuals can make good choices and individuals can make bad choices, but that’s the extent of it. Even if the side effect of plague/disease is people dying, that doesn’t mean reducing population was the intent. It’s just a side effect. And that was happening back when the earths population was 1% of what it was now. So there’s no correlation to population here. It happened when there was 100 people on the earth, it happened when there’s 1 million people on the earth, it happened when there’s 1 billion people on the earth, and it’s happened when there’s 8 billion people, and it will continue to happen if we ever get to 80 billion.
The issue with farmland running out isn’t that there’s not enough land. The answer is to simply devote more land to farming. There’s plenty of land. That’s always been the answer and continues to be the answer. But as I said in my previous post, it’s regulations (such as those in California) that prevent that from happening or make it difficult. And there were famines back when the population was 1% of what it was now, there will be famines now and there will be famines when the population is 10 times what it is now. But it’s not correlated to population.
I think it’s fine for you as an individual, to act on your beliefs and, let’s just say, not have kids. But I don’t think it’s right to tell other people they can’t have kids just because you say the population is too much. That’s something I disagree with on a fundamental level. Because that is essentially sacrificing human life for the good of everyone else. It’s no different, imo, than saying we should let the virus kill as many people as possible to help “thin the herd”. And while I believe your intentions are pure, and I can see the logic of what you’re saying in intent, I don’t believe that’s a call you or anyone else has the right to make.
Besides which, the data clearly shows a positive correlation with population and standard of living and a negative correlation with poverty, among other things. And that’s been true for all of human history, as population increases, so do technological breakthroughs, and standard of living increases. So while I can at least understand your position (and I do), and I respect that you believe your assumptions are correct, let’s leave it at that because, in the absence of data that completely contradicts those statistics, we’re not likely going to reach agreement.
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