"Sometimes isolation is a good thing, Razputin. It can lead to many important discoveries."--Sasha Nein, Psychonauts3DS FC: 2578-3212-7404Popy's Backloggery!
@Toki: Gah, okay, first of all, there isn't anything wrong with pop culture references. Sometimes, there is a REASON for them. And yes, FLCL is one of them. I've seen someone who believes that Mamimi represents old Japan and Haruko represents American influence and Naota is the modern Japan, and he has to choose which to follow. And that makes a LOT of sense to me and the references that Haruko makes (Just about all of them being connected to America) further supports this.
Second, stop acting like your view of something is the one and only way of looking at it. It's stupid, naive, annoying, and DEAD wrong. If you can't see anything in FLCL or NMH, that's your problem not theirs.
And third, I do agree with you on shows like Family Guy and such but not that FLCL and NMH belong in the same sentence with them.
Hypocrisy, that's all I'm getting from your response. The rules do apply, except to the things you like. Isn't that right? Pop culture references can be a good thing...every once in a while! Not every five seconds. And I didn't say my opinion was the only opinion, but it is my opinion.
And the only reason I got suckered into buying No More Heroes, was because the team who made Killer7 made it. I loved Killer7, so I gave it a try. Not only does the game play like crap, but everything about it (including these so-called "bad ass characters") was beyond deplorable! That's MY opinion on No More Heroes 1!
Praising Killer 7's "gameplay" but hating NMH? Interesting.
Partially on-topic (we're discussing the depth in NMH franchise, I fail to see how it's off-topic...) :
Neither No More Heroes or Fooly Cooly possess hidden depth.
And as for the "depth" you people are talking about, it's nothing new!
No one said it was new. We just said it was depth. If you don't enjoy FLCL or No More Heroes, I honestly feel sorry for you. Claiming Nintendo's storylines are deeper is a little silly, but needless to say I enjoy Nintendo's efforts as well. If you take out all the pop culture references from FLCL you've still got a deep story about growing up, sex, social anxiety and religion, but I'm willing to admit NMH is little more than a collection of different views on society and culture. Regardless, still very enjoyable. And Family Guy's too random for my taste, at least the former 2 examples are cohesive.
Cannot. Wait. For. NMH2.
On another note, I'm thoroughly enjoying Killer7 as well, but if you were expecting a similar experience you didn't do your homework very well. Perhaps Madworld would be more to your liking, or some other stuff Shinji Mikami has written. Anime-wise I can definitely recommend Mind Game and Kaiba, by my favourite director. Also, saying things like "modern-day everything" and "sell-out" makes you sound like a bitter old man, I can only hope this is not the case. It's my personal view that nothing is "new" in the sense that it is created from nothing; ideas will always be continuations of already existing thoughts, it's the only way we know how to evolve. This hasn't changed with "back in the day", whatever that may mean to you.
Thanks for the sympathy! And really quick, I want to address two things! First, "partially on-topic", is off-topic to me. Second, I never said Nintendo had deep storylines, I just said they didn't sell-out.
Also, Fooly Cooly and No More Heroes have a serious lack of imagination, which makes both of them completely unredeemable in my eyes. To me, Imagination and narrative are the most important ingredients for a good story. Fooly Cooly and No More Heroes have neither, so of course I wouldn't like them.
I never got an answer to my questions, what took you all so long to beat the game?
I cannot recall how long it took exactly, but I did drive around trying to find all the treasure and the Lovikov balls and that can take time. I also made several attempts at some of the paid missions and failed; ditto for a couple of the bosses who were pretty tough (the magician guy and miss "play dead" in particular).
@Toki: Gah, okay, first of all, there isn't anything wrong with pop culture references. Sometimes, there is a REASON for them. And yes, FLCL is one of them. I've seen someone who believes that Mamimi represents old Japan and Haruko represents American influence and Naota is the modern Japan, and he has to choose which to follow. And that makes a LOT of sense to me and the references that Haruko makes (Just about all of them being connected to America) further supports this.
Second, stop acting like your view of something is the one and only way of looking at it. It's stupid, naive, annoying, and DEAD wrong. If you can't see anything in FLCL or NMH, that's your problem not theirs.
And third, I do agree with you on shows like Family Guy and such but not that FLCL and NMH belong in the same sentence with them.
Hypocrisy, that's all I'm getting from your response. The rules do apply, except to the things you like. Isn't that right? Pop culture references can be a good thing...every once in a while! Not every five seconds. And I didn't say my opinion was the only opinion, but it is my opinion.
Hypocrisy, that's all I'm getting from your response.
Neither No More Heroes or Fooly Cooly possess hidden depth. I say that with 100% certainty. What you see is what you get, and it ain't much!
^That's what's ticking me off about you. You are saying here that they don't have anything to say because YOU can't see it. Your "opinion" shouldn't be said as fact in this case (or ever, really), becasue it's going against the REAL fact that there is stuff under the surface with both of them. If it came off as me trying to push my opinion on you, I'm sorry, I was trying to give you a fact. Have you watched the first couple minutes of FLCL with your eyes closed yet? You should, I even posted the link in this topic.
Also, Fooly Cooly and No More Heroes have a serious lack of imagination, which makes both of them completely unredeemable in my eyes. To me, Imagination and narrative are the most important ingredients for a good story. Fooly Cooly and No More Heroes have neither, so of course I wouldn't like them.
Wow. I don't even know where to start with this one.
So, a story about an Otaku getting pulled into a ranking of assasins and killing all sorts of people (every one of them strange and unique) isn't full of imagination? What about a story with a robot and tons of different monsters coming out of a kids head to destroy his town? And in this same story the same boy is hit by a alien riding a vespa, uses a guitar to hit a comet thing like a baseball, turns into a pirate king, and I could keep on going. What the hell are you smoking for that not to be full of imagination?
And I'd also like to know what it is that you like, what you think is a good story.
"Sometimes isolation is a good thing, Razputin. It can lead to many important discoveries."--Sasha Nein, Psychonauts3DS FC: 2578-3212-7404Popy's Backloggery!
I took about ten hours to finish it and that was with a lot of faffing around in the hub world. The actual time spent in challenges or on actively pursuing the money towards them was probably less than half of that.
I called you a hypocrite because you said that Fooly Cooly had a reason for pop culture references, then implied Family Guy did not. What I took from this is that you like Fooly Cooly, so you'll make excuses and exceptions for it. Then, I said that Fooly Cooly (and No More Heroes) had no depth. I stand by that, because it's just a sloppy, jumbled mess. And honestly, I think you'd have to be smoking something to think that what you described about Fooly Cooly and No More Heroes was "imaginative". You make them sound like the animated equivalent to scrambled eggs. And (once again) let me clarify that what you've just read were MY opinions. They're not YOUR opinions, they aren't fact, they're MY opinions! So please, don't get "ticked off" by them, I'm not trying to put words in your (or anybody else's) mouth.
And stories I consider "good" include Resident Evil 4, Paper Mario, Mortal Kombat Vs. DC Universe, and Bomberman 64: The Second Attack!.
I will say this for No More Heroes, however. It has a really amazing theme song.
@Toki: Oh, well sorry about that. Sure, Family Guy has a reason for doing it: To make a joke. My point, was that FLCL and NMH do it for their story. Well, for the story that goes on underneath the surface, at least.
I've only played RE4 and Paper Mario out of those. I agree that PM has a lot of imagination but it's story isn't all that great. Or did you mean the whole series? Super Paper Mario had some great stuff. And...RE4? Okay...I don't really see the imagination in it...
"Sometimes isolation is a good thing, Razputin. It can lead to many important discoveries."--Sasha Nein, Psychonauts3DS FC: 2578-3212-7404Popy's Backloggery!
I knew what your point was. And as for Paper Mario and Resident Evil 4, what I liked about those stories, specifically, were their narratives. Both stories, though a bit shallow, are told in a really fantastic way, so it made up for any shortcomings.
There's nothing to elaborate on. The story was told extremely well, and it made perfect sense to me. Maybe you could elaborate on what you're talking about?
@Toki: Ok then, so why call me a hypocrite? I pointed out that FLCL and NMH shouldn't be compared to a comedy with no real plot. We're talking about stories here! Even if you don't see any meaning in them, you should at least be able to see a plot...
And NMH and FLCL (though I still don't see the greatness in RE4...) are both told in a really great way! Strange enough, they have more in common with books than games and anime. You have to look at what's being said in EVERYTHING. Heck, you can find whole essays on FLCL and NMH on the internet! Check them out sometime.
And for the record, I'm sorry if I came off as rude or something before.. FLCL and NMH changed me in a lot of ways (I never liked music until I watched FLCL and from NMH I learned the art of messing with a set formula) so I'm pretty defensive of them.
"Sometimes isolation is a good thing, Razputin. It can lead to many important discoveries."--Sasha Nein, Psychonauts3DS FC: 2578-3212-7404Popy's Backloggery!
The story exposition consists primarily of Salazar (a guy with a napoleon complex) and Leon (a guy with girly hair who can't run and shoot at the same time) trading insults like kids from the remedial classes in the playground.
Salazar subsequently throws a bunch of stupid traps your way that are designed in such a way as to allow easy escape when he could have killed you at any time had he been half-competent or tall enough to see over the castle walls what was going on.
It has no connectivity to the previous games, other than undoing the deaths of two characters from previous games and magically reviving them for the sequel (one of which only to be killed again.)
The gameplay has very tenuous connection to the story and is just an excuse to throw a bunch of extremely varied enemies at you to keep things fresh.
The monologues that come before each boss fight in NMH are 10x funnier, cleverer, more intelligent, and contain more depth and character development than all the story exposition videos in RE4 put together.
You asked me to elaborate, Toki, so don't pull the 'cool story bro' sarcasm on me.
I don't know what makes RE4's story told in a "really fantastic way" while NMH's apparently uncreative and is unoriginal. Let us compare...
RE4 Main Char Motivation: Hunky hero wants to save helpless female from her kidnappers.
NMH Main Char Motivation: Nerdy loser orders an light saber off ebay and wants to get some use out of it plus he's broke and he wants to impress a hot chick he met at a bar so he decides to embark on a mission to become the #1 assassin in the world just armed with his ebay swag and his wrestling videos collection.
~~~~~ ROUND ONE GOES TO: NMH ~~~~~
RE4 End Boss Motivation: Evil guy wants to take over the world.
NMH End Boss Motivation: Emotionally abused half sister of the main character with daddy issues is on a revenge mission. Their father abandoned her mother to run off with the main char's mother, and so her mother killed herself. Swearing to kill her father for it and avenge her mother, but alone in the world since her mother was dead and her father abandoned her to raise another family, she sold her body to make enough money to take fighting lessons and trained hard. Then she killed her father and set up the entire scam of an Assassin's fighting circle just to lure her half-brother to her so she could kill him too.
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Topic: Opinions on No More Heroes 1
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