Wii U Forum

Topic: Wii U and the state of the industry

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Scollurio

1. Posted:

Hello folks, not sure if I titled this post correctly, what I was thinking is how many people complain about the lack of innovation for WiiU, lack of anything thats really new (like clever use of the tablet, so far everything is just map/inventory/gimmick and doesn't enhance gameplay much - like having to look away from TV while checking something out on the pad...) - having a PC, an XBOX360, 3DS and being an active online forum reader me and my friend of course have an opinion about all this that we discussed yesterday. And for those who enjoy discussion and conversation, read on and share your thoughts.

We were talking about the chances the Wii U has in the market, the general state of gaming and economy. We came to the point where we think that it is extremely risky for anyone (MS, Sony, Ninty, or who else) to start a new console generation. Most people made the step to HD so Ninty might be under most pressure to go HD now to finally be on par (graphics wise) but the other two? If they don't come up with a pricing model like that rumored mobile phone contract thing (buy console for 99, be forced to pay for live/psn for 2-3 years) it might be really hard for them to make people shell out their money! We have full HD already, sure graphics on PS and XBOX could be very well improved, make them 1080p native and add 4x antialiasing and I'd be happy as everyone. But would this graphical step be enough to warrant shelling out the money for a new console? Also they really need backwards compatibility, without compromise. It's 2012, digital distribution is hip and I see no reason why I should start over collecting games for a new console that will most likely have not many must haves in the first year (this applies to ANY of those console) if I have a nice library on my old rig already - I need to be able to play it on the new thing. But there's the point. I get the new console, pay between 250 and 600 for it to play my old games? To wait a year until good titles come out for the console? I wouldn't do that. Even if MS and Sony go and exceed 1080p resolution, what good would it be for the launch of the system? Most people play on FULL HD TV which is limited to 1080p, higher resolution games won't look any sharper on them and I think the number of people that would go for new higher resolution TV AND a new console is REALLY tiny. Especially you're arleady walking terrain there where you could easily get a competitive PC already (not taking system exklusives into account now).

What I mean is, that it is really risky and hard work to convince customers to go for the new console. Especially no matter what console we're talking, compared to a 600-800 euro gaming pc (self-assembled) we're talking about OLD tech already. So the ones who have the money can easily go for PC and get something better (of course, no Mario and such though).

So what about the casuals, a core audience of nintendo products. They love to play minigame collections and sports games - good, Im glad if people enjoy their hobby, but will they even see a big enough difference between WIi and Wii U to think "I need this?" - most people are ill informed, most "casuals" don't go to web forums or follow the E3, they buy in retail after seeing a console at a friend's house or buy it for the kids and go for the cheapest one. All of this factors can be weighed FOR or AGAINST nintendo - or MS or Sony.

If I had to bring out a new console right now, I'd be scared shitless. Don't have a good launch? 3rd party people will hesitate jumping the wagon and producing games for your platform - which will further hate sales. See 3DS.

Im also not saying that the PC is the supreme gaming platform, I rather htink the times where you could say "iM nintendo fan" or "im xbox guy" are mostly over. Sadly, if you want the total experience you're bound to buy more than one system. And that doesn't change the problem that innovation and clever gameplay is quite rare already on ALL the systems in today's mass-media-gaming-industry where devlopers/publishers rather push out another rushed sequel that will sell because of its name than taking some risks and come up with some new IPs.

In all of this, I think Nintendo's biggest chance will be: pricepoint and the gamepad. Unfortunately I don't see anything yet that justifies that gamepad for Wii U. I'd rather get Wii U barebone, without ANY controllers and then just get the Pro Controllers with it seperately. But then - again, why even upgrade from what you have? Say you get the Wii U, launch window titles are soso, I don't like Pikmin at all an I don't like Zombies, so what does it leave me with (personally) - old ported games and mini game collections. For that I should get a new console? Where I will end up playing old Wii games or even older VC games? No need to upgrade to HD for that. Assymetric gameplay? Just a sad excuse that the Wii U can't handle more than one Gamepad very well. And IF asymmetric gameplay is THE thing, then show me. Where's the killer app? Nowhere. Metroid, Zelda and Mario Kart Wii U still YEARS away (a vague guess) I don't see any need to upgrade.

But it's the same with the other manufacturers as well. Innovation is greatly lacking everywhere, who wants to play another Call of Duty in unsignificantly greater resolution and pay top money for it if they can just stick to what they have? Yes you can say: its not about graphics, its about bigger levels, more enemies, etc... so what? We're not talking about the console nutshell here only, what about PC? There is basicly unlimited power, developers don't need to work within constriants of a fixed hardware environment, they can take the "if your pc cant run my game, go upgrade"-approach. But where are the innovations on PC? Where are the monstrously big levels and super smart AI enemies. See. Nowhere. Safe for the indie scene innovations have been sparce. Heck we don't even NEED innovation if we just could get quality games like back in the day. What about SNES and Gameboy Advance for example. How many TOP games compared to total number of games did we have back then. It was awesome. How does this compare today? Its poor. PIsspoor.

I don't want to get into rant mode here, I just hope that THE WHOLE industry not only nintendo, ms or sony, and pc developers, everyone gets away form hardware race and back to innovative ideas and superb gameplay. If nintendo themselves can't come up with some TOP use for their own gamepad, whom do we expect innovation from then?

Share your thoughts on this, I'd be curious to hear what you think, how does the industry fare, where will we be 5 years from now (nowhere if the mayas are right, lol)?

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MAB

2. Posted:

Thread should be called 'Massive wall o text rant by a dude with way too much on his mind' in 5 years I will be awaiting the next Nintendo console after enjoying my WiiU and I would think you will too bro ;)

Forever living to inappropriately touch the mentalities of armchair internet gaming analysts and worthless console war fanboys... Let their sad stories burn eternally within my inbox furnace of hell ;)

Wii U & Steam Box DIGITAL 4 LYFE BABY!

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DeMoN-13ruce

3. Posted:

ummm the 3ds sells epicnow so lol....the vita in the other hand......is an titanic....

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Scollurio

4. Posted:

Ah well thanks for your albeit limited input there. Yes I am well too much in my head but I got tought that you can never think "too much" and given that I only have that one life and have to decide with what I want to spend my sparetime I have all right to make my assumptions. Im not so sure if I will be getting any more consoles or gaming equipment if the approach of making games doesn't change. I already quit Television, so... :)

The 3ds doesnt sell EPIC now. It sells good in Japan and "allright" everywhere else, and thats a year late. And I don't talk about sales I talk about software offerings for 3ds which is still quite lackluster. Sure Mario Kart is awesome, Resident Evil is a nice graphics showcase but things like Kid Icarus and Kingdom Hearts only appeal to their respective audience. But like everything in life, its just personal opinion.

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shingi_70

5. Posted:

DeMoN-13ruce wrote:

ummm the 3ds sells epicnow so lol....the vita in the other hand......is an titanic....

3DS isn't doing that well. Its just starting to turn a profit and has failed to meet nintendo's expectations.

MadAussieBloke wrote:

Thread should be called 'Massive wall o text rant by a dude with way too much on his mind' in 5 years I will be awaiting the next Nintendo console after enjoying my WiiU and I would think you will too bro ;)

Yes let's ignore having a serious conversation on where the industry is going. But I agree aboutjoining nintendo consoles.

For what its worth I honestly don't see how big of a selling the point HD or the Gamepad will be. By the time the Wii U launches there will be cheaoer consoles on the market with around the same graphical performance and cheaper. And then next year there's the chance of two consoles that could do more.

Not sure about Sony but Microsoft is going to be pushing the Wii U as a all in one box for more than games. Even the new xbox live logo (I'll postal picture of it later) and the rebranding of all its media services to have the xbox brand are pretty indicative of that. They also will be pushing cross game play between Druango/Windows 8/Windows Phone.

shingi_70

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MAB

6. Posted:

I have already read a gazillion posts that people base a claim about 'serious discussion' which ultimately turn into unreadable garble.

If you like Nintendo then buy their products
If you prefer PC then by all means get a computer
same goes for Microsoft/Sony/Apple ;)
We have a vast magnitude of choice when it comes to the games industry and while some devices sell well others don't quite do as good. I have been gaming since Atari was the main console and C64/Amiga 500 were the main draw for PCs so I have seen alot of products come and go with mixed success in my time and what it all amounts to is overall enjoyment... Some people like this others will like that, if you know what I'm saying :)

Forever living to inappropriately touch the mentalities of armchair internet gaming analysts and worthless console war fanboys... Let their sad stories burn eternally within my inbox furnace of hell ;)

Wii U & Steam Box DIGITAL 4 LYFE BABY!

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Scollurio

7. Posted:

If you've seen so many discussions like this fail, then just don't contribute? No one forces you to read the "wall'o text". Besides, your argument basicly saying "buy whatever you need to play the games you enjoy" - is a nobrainer. Of course. That's how it works, but in a larger scale, it doesn't change that we're mostly seeing shovelware, useless sequels and shooters across all platforms - so much about my state of the industry comment. I just wish for brighter days really.

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DeMoN-13ruce

8. Posted:

lol

3DS Friend Code: 2879-0303-7697
Metal Gear Solid (rising etc)

Best game series i ever played:D

BIGG BOSS (Naked Snake) is my favorite game character of all time!

GANGNAM STYLE!!!

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Scollurio

9. Posted:

DeMoN-13ruce wrote:

lol

very constructive! :D
Thank you!

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DudeSean

10. Posted:

Scollurio wrote:

...it doesn't change that we're mostly seeing shovelware, useless sequels and shooters across all platforms - so much about my state of the industry comment. I just wish for brighter days really.

This is... nothing new. Every gaming system is mostly shovelware. And there was always one genre of games that was oversaturated. During the arcade / atari days, it was space shooters. During the NES/SNES/Sega Genesis days, it was platformers. Now it's shooters.

As for your original post, if you don't care, then obviously just don't worry about what I'm about to say, but if you want more people to read it and if you like thinking so much, perhaps you could've thought of a way to condense everything you had to say into less text.

DudeSean

Nintendo Network ID: DudeSean

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Scollurio

11. Posted:

Thanks for your response Sean,
just because people obviously don't like to read I see no reason why to make everything as short and digestible as possible.
Anyways you raise a few solid points, and don't forget the beat'em ups, also quite present on SNES and Megadrive. Maybe it's nostalgia but I feel like that the limitation of a system in power made people think harder about gameplay and innovative solutions whereas nowadays it doesn't seem like developers/publishers want to take that time/risk anymore.

Because even if that overexposure of ONE certain genre was always present, I see much more innovative and memorable titles from SNES era than I see them nowadays. But again, maybe it's just nostalgia.

I really want Nintendo to do WELL with WiiU, and I even wish that to Sony and MS, in the end I only hope things get better for us, the customers.

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DudeSean

12. Posted:

It's not as simple as people not wanting to read. It's like you said, you can spend your spare time however you want. Most people aren't going to want to spend their time reading a wall of text by someone they don't know.
Yeah, beat'em ups were fairly common, too. Especially in the arcade.
I think there may be some nostalgia to what you're feeling, because I'm the same way. Kids today obviously don't think that games back then were more innovate or creative, but I agree that it certainly does feel that way. You're right about developers and publishers not taking the time to come up with innovative solutions with limited hardware, because the Wii had a lot of potential that nobody ever got into, simply because of it's lack of power. If they had the mentality they did back in the NES and SNES days, there would be a plethora of good games for the Wii. But, like you, it could just be nostalgia talking.
Of course I wish Nintendo well, but not playstation. I have no respect for a company that exists out of spite for another, especially when the company that they exist out of spite of is my favorite video game company (Nintendo). And, yes, the bottom line should be the gamers. I wish they would all think about us more instead of their wallets, but if they didn't worry about their wallets then they wouldn't exist.
The video game industry is an industry, and it's just as corrupt as any other.

DudeSean

Nintendo Network ID: DudeSean

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shingi_70

13. Posted:

Eh there are more than shooter on the market. I could probably name a lot for each platform. Also if you include stuff like Xbla/PSan/wiiware than you have a nice diverse gaming catalog.

shingi_70

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SonyFACE

14. Posted:

I don't know about anyone else, but the main reason I stick to consoles instead of PCs is 1st-party games. All the bells and whistles are just extra.

Charter Member of SonyLife.
Nintendo and Sony for the win, Microsoft ehh.
Psalm 51.

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Scollurio

15. Posted:

NINTENDOFACE wrote:

I don't know about anyone else, but the main reason I stick to consoles instead of PCs is 1st-party games. All the bells and whistles are just extra.

Good point.

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Mandoble

16. Posted:

First, if you want super AI, and hundreds of them at the same time, go and get ArmA2 for PC, and in few months ArmA3.

Now I can talk about my case, a traditional PC gamer. It happens that the PC is not quite appealing for the kids to play, and I have two. So some years ago I bought a Wii and more or less at the same time a pair of DS for them. Later came a second Wii so no more problems with one willing to play X and the other to play Y but lately both Wiis started to take dust, first they were much more interested with 3DS (two as well) and then they focused on the Vita (a single one this time). And all this time I was still focused on PC gaming as the Wii was really too weak for my expectations. Then I was waiting to figure out how long the legs of the WiiU might be and now it is clear that the console is just again on the level of the current competitors but adding a cheap tablet which really looks like another gimmicky excuse, IMO a console like that is dead even before its release. So past week I bought a 360 with Kinect and 10 games. My kids are allucinating with the evil kinect and I can replay Skyrim, Fallout, Oblivion and other jewels in big screen. Certainly for non PC gamers interested into "HD" games the WiiU would be the very worst option as for the other two consoles you have dozens of these games already very cheap, and many many others already in development.

Mandoble

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kkslider5552000

17. Posted:

you're slowly getting better at hiding your PC masterrace schtick

good job

Edited on by kkslider5552000

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Scollurio

18. Posted:

kkslider5552000 wrote:

you're slowly getting better at hiding your PC masterrace schtick

good job

Was this directed at me?

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Scollurio

19. Posted:

Mandoble wrote:

First, if you want super AI, and hundreds of them at the same time, go and get ArmA2 for PC, and in few months ArmA3.

Now I can talk about my case, a traditional PC gamer. It happens that the PC is not quite appealing for the kids to play, and I have two. So some years ago I bought a Wii and more or less at the same time a pair of DS for them. Later came a second Wii so no more problems with one willing to play X and the other to play Y but lately both Wiis started to take dust, first they were much more interested with 3DS (two as well) and then they focused on the Vita (a single one this time). And all this time I was still focused on PC gaming as the Wii was really too weak for my expectations. Then I was waiting to figure out how long the legs of the WiiU might be and now it is clear that the console is just again on the level of the current competitors but adding a cheap tablet which really looks like another gimmicky excuse, IMO a console like that is dead even before its release. So past week I bought a 360 with Kinect and 10 games. My kids are allucinating with the evil kinect and I can replay Skyrim, Fallout, Oblivion and other jewels in big screen. Certainly for non PC gamers interested into "HD" games the WiiU would be the very worst option as for the other two consoles you have dozens of these games already very cheap, and many many others already in development.

Thanks for this informative insight, might I ask what games YOU personally play on the PC? Im especially interested if its like "personal entertainment" - so deep singleplayer games or if you also go multiplayer, and IF so, what multiplayer games BESIDES competitive shooters.

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Mandoble

20. Posted:

For PC I play and played mostly ArmA2 offline,online and mostly scripting/modding (look for mando missile mod in youtube), Skyrim, Fallout NV, Fallout 3, Oblivion, The Witcher 2, Civ V, Empire TW, Drakensang 1 and 2, Dragonage, Divinity 1 and 2, IL2, Aces High, Lock On and similars. I rarely play plain shooters.

Mandoble