Topic: Why is the Wii U's library so lauded?

@Haru17 From the definition posted on a previous page, a nadir isn't just A low point, it's THE low point. Whether you intended it or not, you DID call SS the worst Nintendo game. Even if you soften the blow by claiming you only mean to refer to Iwata-driven Ninty, you're still claiming SS as worse than DS Zelda's and even Sticker Star. But that's beside the point, as even then, many of us appear to have actually liked SS for its interesting story, characters, and dungeon designs.

Just my 2 cents in case someone wondered;

The WiiU's library is amazing, but it teeters on the brink of disaster just because it lacks massive third party support (duh). Everyone who use to buy Nintendo systems for only Nintendo games backed us into this corner. Sooo... they got what they wanted? A Nintendo only system. Almost literally. Ninty makes the games ninty makes the system. Kinda working out for a little bit right now in some senses, but if and when the XB1 or PS4 library takes off like a rocket then the last people talking about the WiiU are really going to jump ship.
But also maybe not?
Yeah there's a lot of disastrous news related to the WiiU, I doubt what Iwata says about 1 game turning the sales around massively at this point. But perhaps Nintendo will just go along with their own plans and pretend this isn't happening, run the WiiU to the end of it's natural cycle and move on. Sales will be mediocre but it'll sell throughout the gen at a slightly distant 3rd place in comparison to it's rivals the XB1 and PS4. If it's any proof they'll keep with the WiiU and love it and nurture it until the end just look at their history. Both the DS & 3DS were panned immediately, but the DS sold more than any of their other handhelds and the 3DS has sold the most units for any gaming system this gen (for now). Need we mention the hate on the Wii again? GameCube sales slacked and they went on with it anyway. Only time they trash anything is when it's just dead in the water. The VB is pretty much the only standalone disaster. You all love bringing up the N64DD, yeah that was a mess too, but was the original N64? Not exactly. I'm sure even though it makes no sense, they're thinking it'll blow up again like the other times it happened.
All anyone can do anywhere when this gets brought up is go yelling OMG THE WIIU IS EXACTLY LIKE N64DD, DREAMCAST AND VIRTUAL BOY!?!?!?! HEELLLLPPP IM ON FIRE!!!!!

There actually are a lot of fun games on Wii U. I have 26 retail games(15 of which are 3rd party), 20 indie games, 27 VC games, and then I still have Wii mode. I've had fun with almost all of the games, except mostly Darksiders II(it's a glitchfest that I might get through someday) and some of the VC games(like Yoshi and those are mostly time wasters, IMO).

If you are unable to find enough games to satisfy your gaming tastes on any of the platforms, then I'm really sorry(not really), and you should probably start doing something else like riding your bike or going on a walk.

For the record, Monster Hunter is NOT an RPG. Character progression is tied entirely to player skill. You don't build your character based on thing such as assignable skill points or stats. The only form of character progression comes from a complex crafting system that is based off of materials you obtain by being good enough to take down the beasts they come from. It's an action game with some RPG elements, but it is not an RPG.

I never presumed to compare 3D and 2D Zelda games. That's just like comparing apples and oranges; fruitless.

And I didn't mean nadir's strictest definition (in my apparent ivory tower ploy for esteem /s). I just meant a severe low point, ok?

That's two fruits.

ahem, THAT WAS THE JOKE!

Naw. It's more like comparing an orange to a tangerine or grapefruit. They are similar fruit, but still different. Comparing Wii U to PS4 would be the apple and orange scenario, and PS Vita would be a crab apple while PS4 is the regular apple.

More importantly, why are computers and video games being measured on the same metric? I call shenanigans!

Sometimes it's the only way, and I agree that it is shenanigans.

A "severe" low point in relation to Nintendo's other output? Still a pretty bold claim that you knew would rustle people's jimmies. Also I never implied that you were doing this to show off or boost your ego. Maybe that was part of it but it wasn't what I was having a go at. All I said was that your claim was a load of bull and you said it in a way that was so unclear that we're still discussing it. Even when people try to steer the topic back on track.

I mean really, this is a Nintendo fan forum. You can't point to our equivalent of Half Life 3 or Halo 5, say "lower your expectations" and not expect a bit of resistance. Even less if your reasoning for saying we shouldn't be hyped is to drag down some people's favourite game in one of if not the most loved Nintendo franchises. And your new tactic of saying "well no, I didn't mean it was the absolute worst one. There are worse Zeldas" isn't helping for obvious reasons. If I was you I'd just leave it at that but it's upto you. If you want to keep going you may need this:

The Nintendo Nadir™ was the N64. Apart from SM64 and OoT, nothing worthwhile was done by 1st party. The only 3rd party presence to even speak of was Rare, and half of their games were meh too. The hardware was crap. The controller was crap. Massive step down from the SNES.

But even then, as a low point, it's pretty remarkable. Worthless hardware with a mostly worthless library, but SM64 and OoT changed the way video games were made forever, so even the crappy N64 was a worthwhile evil to unleash on the world.

I honestly think if you're going to try and pinpoint a low point for Nintendo, you're basically guaranteed resistance from all sides. For instance, I'm very fond of Nintendo's forst party offerings on the N64. I understand calling it a low point, but honestly, I think that the N64 was just part of their downward slope that ended around the time Hiroshi Yamauchi handed the company over to Iwata.

I would argue that this gen is Nintendo's Nadir (or at least so far, Nintendo could easily go further downhill next gen), in terms of sales, popularity, and creativity. The Wii U is turning out to be the worst selling Nintendo console yet, there's not a lot of hype for the console outside of Nintendo's core fanbase, and they've been coasting off similar playing games more than they ever have. Definitely feels like an all time low to me.

And the word of the day is...

Anfractuous? I thought it was Nadir.

In terms of the past 15 years, Nintendo's low-point was easily 2011 and is still a large chunk of what I blame for Wii U's current failures. "WHO WOULD WANT GAMES ON THE OLD SYSTEM SO PEOPLE REMEMBER IT DERPADERPADERP?!" Not to mention the embarassing first few months for the 3DS where the top games were from over a decade ago (and the DS was just getting better games). Considering how 2011 was also the last year AAA gaming was in any way consistently delivering high quality games, Nintendo also had way better competition.

I've always thought that that period in gaming is one of the least interesting. We think of the jump to HD as big but the jump from 2D to 3D was insane. Even classics from that "just working out 3D era" don't hold up as well as the 2D games from just a few years before. Super Mario 64 for example is easily the best 3D platformer from that era but the camera is pretty much broken by today's standards and the textures are horrendous. Then you go over to what was happening on the Playstation and there's not only less impressive first goes at 3D but also painful loading times.

The SNES you go back to and it all holds up pretty well. Even today people are imitating the style of the SNES and NES. I could recommend people go back and play Yoshi's Island, Chrono Trigger, A Link To Past, Super Mario World and Earthbound exactly as they were and if they didn't know any better they might think they were interesting little indie titles just out. When you look at the Gamecube they could almost get away with a straight port of some of those games to the 3DS. The N64 era? It was impressive at the time but unless you have your rose tinted glasses it's not really worth revisiting aside from a few gems.

I disagree but I'm also tremendously biased.

That's actually a really good point. People like to think that HD revolutionized gaming, but IIRC, there weren't any gaming icons that fell on their face hard enough to break their future when the jump to HD happened, and if there were, they likely didn't happen because of the jump to HD. Meanwhile, when 3D games became a thing... shudders Yeah. A lot of gaming icons fell from grace and never really picked themselves back up. (I'm looking at you, Sonic.) Others still even refused to join the 3D world in terms of much more than graphics (Kirby being an example) and the ones that did make the jump, as you've pointed out, didn't really land very gracefully, either. If you're going back to PSx or N64 or even the Neo Geo without a heavy dose of nostalgia meds and/or a complete and utter disregard for graphical quality, you're not going to be all that impressed.

It's amusing to go back and look at what 3D platformers and adventure games looked like before SM64. Remember Jumping Flash? That came out in 1995 and received critical acclaim. People called that game innovative. Mindblowing. Stunning. Essential. It's easy to overlook how important Nintendo's early 3D games were because of just how widespread their influence actually is. Pretty much every modern 3D game except FPSs can trace a line directly back to SM64.

I didn't like much from the N64, but it's still one of the most important consoles ever made. Nintendo single-handedly saved the industry from years, maybe even decades of 3D games that control like Tomb Raider or Resident Evil. They came out the same year as SM64, but nothing plays like Tomb Raider or Resident Evil anymore, not even Tomb Raider or Resident Evil. TR'13 plays a lot more like SM64 than it does like TR'96.