Brand image has a lot to do with quantity and quality of games. After all, the GC was largely mocked at the time, and throughout, by many, but it answered it's critics with games, something which the Wii U has only started doing since mid to late 2013, being generous.
Also actually, not only q and q but also what exactly the games are. Nintendo have the image of being for kids, Sony for gamers who read the guardian and Xbox for dude-brah's. None of those these are true.
In any case, what you'll hear a lot is that "I'm just not interested in childish Mario anymore, I want something new, and Nintendo doesn't provide it"
And yet you look at the sales of so, so many AAA and AA action adventure, or FPS games on Xbox and Sony and at least 80‰ of them don't sell all that great. A lot of them barely make it past 5 million. Which is partly the reason why Sony continually have bad financials - their hardwares are expensive and they don't have high enough software sales to counter it.
So, again, the image thing I also think is a bit of a red herring. Wii U can become another Gamecube i.e a respected flop, which is as good as it can get, providing it gets good games regularly out there, and I see no reason why that ain't going to happen.
@Wonkers I don't disagree with the fact that image seldomly reflects the actual nature of a system (or company, or person and so on). That's why we refer to it as the image after all. It pertains to the way something is perceived not to its actual state. That being said Nintendos image is not just perception. Most of what they themselves develop is aimed at younger consumers (not exclusively of course). There is nothing wrong with that by itself. But the Wii had something to sell it, something unique, it had buzz, thanks in no small part to Wii Sports. Also the marketplace moved on, we can't ignore the number of especially kids with access to smartphones and tablets. It not the same environment as back when the Wii launched. Not to forget that the WiiU has competition by the Wii and NDS and the 3DS when it comes to the "Mario-factor". I think Nintendo has to broaden it's appeal, I do not believe Nintendo software by itself will be able to carry two hardware platforms to success at the same time. Part of it may be, that Nintendo misjudged the rise in development time and costs caused by the move to HD. After all it's not an area they have alot of expertise with. Certainly they also did not expect to be basically abandoned by 3rd party, esp. when it comes to exclusives. They have to adapt to these changes or they will perish. It's sad, I don't like it, but I also think it's true.
As a sidenote, you are just wrong about Sony. The gaming department, meaning the Playstation brand, is most definitely NOT at fault for Sonys' financial troublea. That's just a fact. Quite the opposite is true, esp. since the launch of the PS4. A major part of Sonys' 4th quarter profits stemmed from the gaming department. I don't remember the exact numbers, but I think it was somewhat more than 50% of the companys profit. Also a game not selling more than 5 million copies being "not all that great", just goes to show what's so terribly wrong with the industry and also something Nintendo has to be struggling with. Costs are skyrocketing and profit margins aren't. But the whole industry is troubled by that, everyone is trying to adapt. Not all will succeed, that is basically just progress, nothing more and nothing less.
@Wonkers I don't disagree with the fact that image seldomly reflects the actual nature of a system (or company, or person and so on). That's why we refer to it as the image after all. It pertains to the way something is perceived not to its actual state. That being said Nintendos image is not just perception. Most of what they themselves develop is aimed at younger consumers (not exclusively of course). There is nothing wrong with that by itself. But the Wii had something to sell it, something unique, it had buzz, thanks in no small part to Wii Sports. Also the marketplace moved on, we can't ignore the number of especially kids with access to smartphones and tablets. It not the same environment as back when the Wii launched. Not to forget that the WiiU has competition by the Wii and NDS and the 3DS when it comes to the "Mario-factor". I think Nintendo has to broaden it's appeal, I do not believe Nintendo software by itself will be able to carry two hardware platforms to success at the same time. Part of it may be, that Nintendo misjudged the rise in development time and costs caused by the move to HD. After all it's not an area they have alot of expertise with. Certainly they also did not expect to be basically abandoned by 3rd party, esp. when it comes to exclusives. They have to adapt to these changes or they will perish. It's sad, I don't like it, but I also think it's true.
As a sidenote, you are just wrong about Sony. The gaming department, meaning the Playstation brand, is most definitely NOT at fault for Sonys' financial troublea. That's just a fact. Quite the opposite is true, esp. since the launch of the PS4. A major part of Sonys' 4th quarter profits stemmed from the gaming department. I don't remember the exact numbers, but I think it was somewhat more than 50% of the companys profit. Also a game not selling more than 5 million copies being "not all that great", just goes to show what's so terribly wrong with the industry and also something Nintendo has to be struggling with. Costs are skyrocketing and profit margins aren't. But the whole industry is troubled by that, everyone is trying to adapt. Not all will succeed, that is basically just progress, nothing more and nothing less.
You cannot just calculate it by the total profit from Playstation as a percentage of total profit. There is other bits that are also doing fine just being cancelled out by parts doing badly.
They have about the same revenue as Microsoft but no profit that is the problem.
“30fps Is Not a Good Artistic Decision, It's a Failure”
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You cannot just calculate it by the total profit from Playstation as a percentage of total profit. There is other bits that are also doing fine just being cancelled out by parts doing badly.
They have about the same revenue as Microsoft but no profit that is the problem.
Why not ? But it doesn't ever matter for the argument I was trying to make. Playstation showed a profit, I don't think it actually matters how much of the companys profit was related to Playstation. Sony as the diverse company it is today, is in trouble no doubt about that. Playstation is not, though this may of course be subject to change.
@Ralek85
You're still missing my point, which is that Xbox One and PS4 are getting 7th gen games, and the games with 8th gen/enhanced graphics still have 7th gen game mechanics. Also, Battlefeild 4 was on Xbox 360.
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@SCAR392 I'm sorry I think we are missing each others points. First, BF4 on X360 is not BF4 on PS4, different games. Second, gameplaywise I hear you but you are still wrong, if anything we get 6th gen gameplay (at least for like 95% of the time). Not to offend anyone but if you haven't gotten used to the stagnation of actual gameplay in videogames over the ... no, not years ... generations, I don't know what you were doing. Were there exception to this rule ? Sure, there were, but this doesn't break the rule, it just shows that the industry in general is not trying hard enough.
Also you do realize that the industry turned to graphix as the yardstick for like EVERYTHING?
If you don't have the game on both consoles, my reasoning is just as valid.
You're full of crap if you didn't realize any enhancements of game mechanics from 6th to 7th gen. They were largly the same, but why do you think we got so many cover based shooters and physic based games in 7th gen? They were actually possible, that's why, so I know you don't know WTF you're saying.
EDIT: There's also games like Bioshock, or the Wii remote. Stronger and more diverse game mechanics didn't really exist as much prior to 7th gen. Saying otherwise is nonsense.
@SCAR392 by your logic, also everything that's on the Wii U that is not a party game can be considered 7th gen, NSMBU, Wind Waker, Pikmin, DK: TC, Mario Kart, only have graphics to their name to differentiate them from what would have been possible in the Wii........ 3D World has 4 player multiplayer in 3D which the Wii would have probably not been able to handle but if number of player makes it next gen that's the same argument people are making in relation to Battlefield 4...... I guess ZombiU and W1010 could be called "next gen" or at least that they would have not been possible in the Wii because they depend on gamepad but that's 2 in almost 2 years of life for the Wii U
@shingi_70
That's a good point, but during this transition, we have to say anything that Xbox 360 is still doing in comparison, given we can compare at all, is still reason enough to discredit the new versions a bit.
@ferthepoet
I agree, except the GamePad features, obviously. All these consoles are still riding a 7th gen wave. Personally, I think what Nintendo is doing is still fresh, though. We're seeing things they weren't able to do, because of Wii's hardware limitations, but Xbox 360/PS3 still didn't do things like 3D World, Pikmin 3, W101, or even Sonic Lost World. I'm not saying those games wouldn't have only been possible on other consoles, in concept, but Nintendo still created something different.
Those are Nintendo's first HD games and it's still early in the Wii U's life cycle, so I only see things improving.
@Ralek85
I'm not wrong about Sony. I'm sure I read somewhere that shareholders said the PS3 needed to sell at least 20m more. So, you cannot say the PS3 was a success if it didn't ultimately pay dividends to the company. The PS4's momentum is fine for now but the Vita has been an unmitigated disaster. Just like the Wii U has been, but the 3DS is being extremely profitable. So the way I see it, both manufacturers have one success and one failure in their locker.
You are right that the Wii U doesn't have the required buzz and I've gone into why already - but you will also remember that the Wii died off sharply. The PS3 had an awfully slow start, an outstanding middle life, and died at the end barring The Last Of Us. Oh, bearing in mind that Sony hasn't "won" a generation since the PS2? And there is no way the PS4 can reach those levels either, because as you say the industry has changed, for the worst frankly, and Nintendo needs to adapt more. Keep it minimal and sell it cheap doesn't satisfy gamers anymore, since tablets, phones do the same thing. But putting all the chips in the total opposite isn't working either i.e Vita. So Nintendo again tried the muddled middle ground - medium quality for medium or upper price. See Gamecube. For me, an undoubted attempt to get the Sony and Xbox crowd back, even historic Nintendo fans, but due to reasons I stated pages ago it hasn't happened yet.
I don't see any other monumental f-ups aside from a misjudgement design wise and naivety with regard to the move to HD and the length of time needed to develop, which I agreed with what you said.
The Vita, after all, is brilliantly and meticulously designed, well thought out piece of kit and for all intents and purposes is better than the Gamepad. But Sony are basically giving them away for free like candy now. There are no more than a handful of games, being generous, designed for the Vita where you can say, wow, I see the point of it now. Sound familiar?
@Wonkers.... PS3 death? it has the best upcoming lineup of all consoles at this time: Persona 5, Drakengard 3, Kingdom Hearts 2..5 H.D. Remix, Neptunia Victory 2 and those are only the exclusives.......
@Wonkers.... PS3 death? it has the best upcoming lineup of all consoles at this time: Persona 5, Drakengard 3, Kingdom Hearts 2..5 H.D. Remix, Neptunia Victory 2 and those are only the exclusives.......
And they are all sequels or remakes.
“30fps Is Not a Good Artistic Decision, It's a Failure”
Freedom of the press is for those who happen to own one.
@SCAR392 Cool down. The article you quoted points out various differences (among them your much beloved physics). As @shingi_70 said, the player count is up to were it needs to be on consoles ... finally. Of course the at times horrendous framerate on PS3 is also a terrbile buzz kill, believe me I tried both. Playercound and FPS is not cosmetics. We aren't talking about some SP SRPG here, where there is one guy playing and the framerate doesn't matter poopsiedoodoocacapoopledoople. So get a grip. Is it a true, unique, never before seen 8th generation gaming experience stuff-thingy ? Probably not, which is a big deal on launch day...
Moving on, if you think cover based games were somewhat inventend in or unique to 7th gen well "you don't know WTF you're saying".
How is the "Wii remote" a game mechanic, esp. if so very few games managed to craft an actual game mechanic around the device and it capabilities?
Physics does not atomically translate into new or better game mechanics, it's often enough cosmetics (and by now we know how much you are annoyed by those ^^) but you are right, progress was made on some fronts, and some games utilized this well, please note I pointed out that I was refering to 95% of games, and I already acknowledged that there were exception, which as I already said, just shows the industry on a whole is lazy, becaus yes progress in mechanics is certainly possible.
You are also flatout wrong in claiming physics was a phenomen first and only employed on 7th genhardware. This is not true, just check for the likes of Havok and Ragdoll.
I have no comment on "Bioshock" since I am not clear on what you are getting at or trying to.
@Wonkers I agree with alof things you say, but let me clearify that I did not make any statement about any specific piece of hardware, I just argued against your comment that Sony's strategy ( I think you refered to costs of games ) was also very flawed and that they therefore have financial troubles. I just pointed out that the Playstation department is turning a tidy profit these days, therefore it is (right now) probably not that flawed.
To summarize you think Nintendo can turn the fate of the WiiU around, like Sony did with the PS3. I don't dispute that, I made the same point earlier, I just said what I thought need to be done for that to happen. Also it needs to happen quickly because there is no denying the PS4 has and is still building momentum in the marketplace and we already discussed the importance of percetion in this market. I also agree that neither Sony nor Nintendo are total f****-ups or perfect, one way or the other.
I disagree about the Vita though, I think many people missed that Vita made a nice turn-around software-wise recently. I have to say I got mine just like 2 months ago and there is quite a variety of also partly unique experiences to be found on it: Tearaway, Danganronpa 1(/2), Ys Celceta, PERSONA4Golden (must have), Gravity, Uncharted, OlliOlli, TxK and also upcoming stuff like Freedom Wars and Tales of ... to name just a few.
It has not caught up to the 3DS but I actually think it will and soon at that. I'm talking quantity and quality of games of course, not sales. Sales are terrible, no doubt about it and the Vita has the same "dead in the water" and "not enough good games on it" image as WiiU in some ways.
But this leads me to my last and most interesting point. I think Sony is actually trying some things here to make the Vita happen as a serious contender. Just hear me out on this, I think it's important. I'm talking about this: Remote-Play, (2nd PS4 controller), Cross-Play, Cross-Buy, Cross-Save and a very successfull PS-Plus integration. Think about it, why can't Nintendo do this or something similar ? I bought the Vita, because, just like you said it is cheap, but also because it's an amazing piece of hardware, more importantly the points I just listed give it so much VALUE. It's really hard to argue against the VIta on a 130€-149€ price point. I jumped shipped a couple weeks to early and got it for 149€ which is still an amazing price for what you get. I use it all the time to watch animes on that amazing OLED screen on the bus/train etc.
And this is were I disagree with you very much, Nintendo failed to properly promote the WiiU and give it ... again VALUE for the consumer. As you put it " monumental f-ups". Why is there nothing like PS+ ? Let's talk about sales and price structure on the e-shop in general ? Why nothing like Cross-buy/save/play ? Why is there no 3DS/WiiU interconnectivity ? Why is the virtual console so AMAZINGLY SLOW to release anything ?
Please don't tell me you consider this very, very valid questions and points of criticism. I mean what did they really do besides putting NDS games on the WiiU, which is also a very recent developmen? Nintendo is failing at making their product attractive to the consumer, honestly they are not trying very hard. I think that's a shame and needs to change, as well it can.
@Wonkers.... PS3 death? it has the best upcoming lineup of all consoles at this time: Persona 5, Drakengard 3, Kingdom Hearts 2..5 H.D. Remix, Neptunia Victory 2 and those are only the exclusives.......
And they are all sequels or remakes.
Amazingly I still take Persona 5 over Watch Dogs any day. Not that I think Watch Dogs is not going to be a good game, or that I won't enjoy it. It is just no Persona and never will be.
As much as I didn't like the Last of Us at least wasn't a sequel.
Wonder how long it will be until we have boring game 25 or another boring game 20 and absolutely nothing else.
What's wrong with sequels? If I like a game I'm always glad for it to get a sequel as long as developers don't screw up... I'll take a new Suikoden game over any new IP
I talked to someone the day before yesterday - who is a gamer, though of the waning mid-30s sort with kids - who had no idea the Wii U existed, even though he knows me pretty well and I talk about it to him. He didn't even know Mario Kart was coming out (he's a fan of Mario Kart). So I think about 80% of it boils down to marketing, pure and simple. He was in the market for a game system and the only two systems in his mind were the PS4 and the XBone, even with that amazing Mario Kart bundle coming out. Nintendo needs to flood the airwaves with ads for the Wii U and its games, even the really old ones. They'll be new to the consumers.
I told him to get a PS4, btw. I love my Wii U and it's my only system (besides PC) but right now I just can't justify steering new people into it. I told him all about the Mario Kart bundle but I told him to get a PS4.
I talked to someone the day before yesterday - who is a gamer, though of the waning mid-30s sort with kids - who had no idea the Wii U existed, even though he knows me pretty well and I talk about it to him. He didn't even know Mario Kart was coming out (he's a fan of Mario Kart). So I think about 80% of it boils down to marketing, pure and simple. He was in the market for a game system and the only two systems in his mind were the PS4 and the XBone, even with that amazing Mario Kart bundle coming out. Nintendo needs to flood the airwaves with ads for the Wii U and its games, even the really old ones. They'll be new to the consumers.
I told him to get a PS4, btw. I love my Wii U and it's my only system (besides PC) but right now I just can't justify steering new people into it. I told him all about the Mario Kart bundle but I told him to get a PS4.
And THIS is why Nintendo is doomed >:[ Nintendo fans have to make clear where their true loyalties lie...or you'll be walking the plank! >:0
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Topic: Why is no one buying the Wii U?
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