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Topic: Why is no one buying the Wii U?

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SCRAPPER392

@Ralek85
kyuubikid213 hit it right on the money. I left it out, because the graphics were actually a fairly significant leap from 7th gen. They didn't really improve the physics or anything in those games. All they got was a bit of spray paint to make them look a bit newer. They were ports of old games, which is exactly what everyone complained about on Wii U. I'm not talking about every game, but even games like Ryse or Second Son could have been done on 7th gen hardware, gameplay wise, albeit with less cosmetic enhancements.

As long as Xbox One and PS4 are still getting 7th gen games, I don't think Wii U has anything to worry about.

Qwest

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SCRAPPER392

Kodeen wrote:

SCAR392 wrote:

Games are virtual, regardless. That was the point I was trying to make. Calling games from past systems VC games is purely semantic. Virtual Console doesn't imply emulators or old games at all. That's just how Nintendo has categorized it from newer games.

The 'virtual' in virtual console is in regards to the 'console' in virtual console, not the the games. That's why it's called Virtual Console. As in there isn't an actual SNES, etc... there hooked up to your TV. The SNES is virtual. So yes, virtual console implies emulated games. Your Wii U is a physical thing that exists, and games written for the Wii U are running on an actual console.

So I guess you guys think that those little 100 in 1 games are VC, too? All these thing are virtual, whether it's running on the original console or not. Virtual has a ton of definitions. Just forget I said anything.

Qwest

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Ralek85

@kyuubikid213 @SCAR392 It is still incorrect. I understand why you left Infamous out, still it is undermining you're argument that "Everyone's all excited about 7th gen games on 8th gen consoles." It is not a 7th gen game and people are plenty excited about it. But most important, please just boot up BF3 and look at the disparity it display in regards to the PC Version. Not just graphics but more importantly gameplay. The maps were clearily designed with more than 24 players in mind, something the PS3 just could not handle. BF4 on PS4 is not just closer to PC on a graphical level but also on a gameplay level. That's just to important to ignore. It's not just "a bit of spray paint". If BF4 should have released on PS3 and X360 ... dunno and frankly don't care. Furthermore there will be now PS3 Version of the likes of Drive Club or The Order, also something many people are excited about

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Wonkers

Can I just bring up a point about marketing? Thanks.

It's something that has been swimming around my head for a while and yet this is the first place where I'm going to say it - but how important is marketing in the plight of Wii U? I don't think it is hardly to blame at all. Hear me out.

Brand awareness, I agree, is something that the Wii U has struggled most with. For the casual shopper who has a pestering kid, already owning a Wii would confuse the majority of uninformed that the Wii U is anything different, with the price etc I can see how the c/s would not be interested in picking one up. However, I'm still sure some people are just plain stupid. Such is life. One of the few times I have ever been in Argos was somewhere around when the PS3 came out. And at the front of the shop I saw that a Mum was buying some sort of PS2 pack. The kid was unhappy but the Mum said it was cheaper and it came with more games. Done deal. And Sony are the ones called marketing gods. Some people just don't want to know.

But what I can't be doing with is, If you are gamer, a serious gamer, a gamer who regularly buys consoles and would have a preference for playing on boxes rather than calling devices; getting confused. You use the internet to get your fix of the latest news, previews, reviews and the like. Perhaps even a gaming magazine if you are old school. But Television advertising for games is of little importance, since you are already following CVG, Kotaku, Eurogamer or whoever.

So when I see 'core' gamers say or active gamers say "I have never even heard of the Wii U'' it drives me mad because it is a complete and utter impossibility. In the last 2+ years to go onto any given gaming-related website, which surely you would do, and not see the word Wii U has a header for you to click on, where it will take you to related news, or even just a headline or a Wii U review? I'd like to know anyone that pulled off that magnificent feat.

I believe Nintendo are doing a fine job on digital marketing. They have really stepped up their own websites, they are a lot cleaner to navigate. Help is a lot easier to find. If marketing is, and I believe, to go that way, then Nintendo will be absolutely fine. Nintendo Direct's have been a runaway success.

The problem they are having is that the consoles aren't selling, because there are not enough games to justify the effort. For some. I disagree which is why I bought one and I haven't stopped using it. But Mario Kart 8 will be a very interesting litmus test, as well as Smash.

I would portion most of the blame to the slow, very slow start of the software, followed by perhaps the complications behind the architecture of the thing which 3rd party developers with their own engines seem to dislike. I genuinely don't see marketing as a thing though.

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Ryno

I think what it simply comes down too is Nintendo has an image problem. Whether it be too "kiddie," "outdated tech," or rehash upon rehash, Nintendo needs to unleash a new image into the wild and with the quickness.

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kyuubikid213

Ralek85 wrote:

@kyuubikid213 @SCAR392 It is still incorrect. I understand why you left Infamous out, still it is undermining you're argument that "Everyone's all excited about 7th gen games on 8th gen consoles." It is not a 7th gen game and people are plenty excited about it. But most important, please just boot up BF3 and look at the disparity it display in regards to the PC Version. Not just graphics but more importantly gameplay. The maps were clearily designed with more than 24 players in mind, something the PS3 just could not handle. BF4 on PS4 is not just closer to PC on a graphical level but also on a gameplay level. That's just to important to ignore. It's not just "a bit of spray paint". If BF4 should have released on PS3 and X360 ... dunno and frankly don't care. Furthermore there will be now PS3 Version of the likes of Drive Club or The Order, also something many people are excited about

The point, as I read it anyway, is more so that many people say there's no game worth spending $300 for a Wii U for when they can already get Call of Duty, Assassin's Creed, Batman, and the few other third party games on the Wii U when they can already get them on their PS3 or 360. However, come the $400 PS4 and $500 One, within their great "million-consoles-sold-weeks", what was everyone buying? Assassin's Creed IV and Call of Duty Ghosts; two games already available on the PS3 and 360 they more than likely already had. Now here we are a couple months later into their lifespan and they're still getting games available on the PS3 and 360 (Titanfall and Dark Souls II for example) and even ports from the last generation (Destiny, Tomb Raider Definitive Edition, and The Last of Us).

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unrandomsam

Ralek85 wrote:

@kyuubikid213 @SCAR392 It is still incorrect. I understand why you left Infamous out, still it is undermining you're argument that "Everyone's all excited about 7th gen games on 8th gen consoles." It is not a 7th gen game and people are plenty excited about it. But most important, please just boot up BF3 and look at the disparity it display in regards to the PC Version. Not just graphics but more importantly gameplay. The maps were clearily designed with more than 24 players in mind, something the PS3 just could not handle. BF4 on PS4 is not just closer to PC on a graphical level but also on a gameplay level. That's just to important to ignore. It's not just "a bit of spray paint". If BF4 should have released on PS3 and X360 ... dunno and frankly don't care. Furthermore there will be now PS3 Version of the likes of Drive Club or The Order, also something many people are excited about

BF4 on PS4 still doesn't run at 60fps so its worthless. (If you want to play it then play it properly at 60fps).

Generally framerate is not an issue for the Wii U. (Excluding ports).

Edited on by unrandomsam

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Ryno

WaveBoy wrote:

Ryno wrote:

I think what it simply comes down too is Nintendo has an image problem. Whether it be too "kiddie," "outdated tech," or rehash upon rehash, Nintendo needs to unleash a new image into the wild and with the quickness.

They need to look at their past image during the NES & SNES era and just roll with that which perfectly suits the whackyness, imagination and fun that nintendo provides. right now, it feels like they almost have an identity crisis going on. I've got to say though, the new Mario Kart 8 commercials are in ways a return to form, i love how the new announcer sounds reminiscent to the one in their Older SNES commercials, specifically for Super mario world.

Yeah, I liked that commercial but it may have just hit the spot with the nostalgia crowd. Nintendo should create another Saturday morning cartoon, Captain N Jr.: The New Game Master.

Edited on by Ryno

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Ralek85

@kyuubikid213 Yes, I got that. But it doesn't ring true because you don't account for two factos, 1st being the games that don't fit your pattern (like Infamous, Rise, Dead Rising etc.) but more importantly you don't account for the games everyone KNEW were coming out sometime in the future. I have a PS4 and while I hated every other AC game, I really enjoyed the AC4, at least the naval combat part which was great. But that is not the reason why I bought the PS4. Was it because I utterly loved Infamous 2 and Second Son was right around the corner ? Well.. only in part, I knew after I was done with Second Son, there would be games like the Division (which as a big RB6V2 fan) I'm looking forward to a lot. I was intrigued by the Order and by Watch Dogs, my friends were already raving about jumping ship from Borderlands to Destiny ... To sum it up, there was no doubt in my mind that the investment in the PS4 would pay off, not today, not tomorrow but during the generation. Also important to note, that I don't expect any dramatic price changes for the PS4 anytime soon, that is and was not the case for the WiiU and also not for the X1 (was right about that btw!). I know that I was not the only one who followed that thought of train, I can't tell you on an empirical basis how much of a role it played in the big picture. For me and for my friends though it was decisive.

@unrandomsam I agree in part, and that is not even talking about the superior M/K control on PC especially for shooters. But I played it on PS4 because my PC is too outdated for it (not for most other things so^^) and I'm not that much of a BF4 buff to bother upgrading over it. It is completely playable despite not being on par with PC and not running in 60fps, it is less that perfect but it is doable, go try it out ^^. I think the player count really matters alot and that got fixed. Still it was a bad investment, the multitude of mostly non-platform specific issues with it ... are just too annyoing for my taste.

@Wonkers I would argue knowing about a product is not the same thing as liking a product. I never meet anyone considering himself a "gamer" (oh so vague^^) who didn'T know about the WiiU's existence. I know plenty of "gamers" who are very well aware of the WiiU, in fact very well aware of the industry as a whole, who show no interest in the WiiU at all. You already named some factors that come into this, but certainly other than just "brand awarness" there is also "brand/product image" to consider. I don't really see how anyone could dispute that Nintendo has a big problem there. But you are certainly free to try.

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mipaol

Ryno wrote:

Nintendo should create another Saturday morning cartoon, Captain N Jr.: The New Game Master.

I would love to see a new Legend of Zelda series.

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Pagey

unrandomsam wrote:

Ralek85 wrote:

@kyuubikid213 @SCAR392 It is still incorrect. I understand why you left Infamous out, still it is undermining you're argument that "Everyone's all excited about 7th gen games on 8th gen consoles." It is not a 7th gen game and people are plenty excited about it. But most important, please just boot up BF3 and look at the disparity it display in regards to the PC Version. Not just graphics but more importantly gameplay. The maps were clearily designed with more than 24 players in mind, something the PS3 just could not handle. BF4 on PS4 is not just closer to PC on a graphical level but also on a gameplay level. That's just to important to ignore. It's not just "a bit of spray paint". If BF4 should have released on PS3 and X360 ... dunno and frankly don't care. Furthermore there will be now PS3 Version of the likes of Drive Club or The Order, also something many people are excited about

BF4 on PS4 still doesn't run at 60fps so its worthless. (If you want to play it then play it properly at 60fps).

Generally framerate is not an issue for the Wii U. (Excluding ports).

That is one of the most ignorant things I've ever read. BF4 on the PS4 plays perfectly fine and if you don't have a gaming computer than can handle it, the PS4 or Xbone versions are the next best thing. So now we're judging games purely based on the framerate?

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Ralek85

Ryno wrote:

I think what it simply comes down too is Nintendo has an image problem. Whether it be too "kiddie," "outdated tech," or rehash upon rehash, Nintendo needs to unleash a new image into the wild and with the quickness.

I agree, but you make it sound like it is the only problem, that much I would content. There is still not that much to play AND not that much even announced. An overhaul of their image is need and quickly yes, but that has to go hand in hand, and most definitely NOT be separted from the software question. I don't like their talk about "Quality of Life"-platform, right now with little information this sounds to me like they are trying to do excatly that. I don't think that would work.

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Ralek85

@Pagey I already admonished him (with a lighter touch though)^^ He is not completely wrong. FPS in competitive online shooters plays a very important role. Yes you are right, it plays fine on PS4, I said as much too. I think @unrandomsam just failed to account for a simple fact .... on PS4 everyone got the same FPS ! "Not having 60fps" doesn't put you at an disadvantage like it does on pc! That's a key difference we have to consider.

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moomoo

WaveBoy wrote:

Ralek85 wrote:

Ryno wrote:

I think what it simply comes down too is Nintendo has an image problem. Whether it be too "kiddie," "outdated tech," or rehash upon rehash, Nintendo needs to unleash a new image into the wild and with the quickness.

I agree, but you make it sound like it is the only problem, that much I would content. There is still not that much to play AND not that much even announced. An overhaul of their image is need and quickly yes, but that has to go hand in hand, and most definitely NOT be separted from the software question. I don't like their talk about "Quality of Life"-platform, right now with little information this sounds to me like they are trying to do excatly that. I don't think that would work.

"There is still not that much to play AND not that much even announced"

Dude, just wait in a couple more weeks. Nintendo will reveal a handful of new games announced for both this year and next year during the E3 presentation You'd be foolish to think that all that's left for this year is Bayonetta 2, Yoshi's Yarn, SSB U and X.

That'd be about what they did last year. They had Pikmin 3, Wonderful 101, Wii Party U and Mario 3D World as their games post-E3. I don't think it'd be particularly foolish to think it'd be the same amount of content.

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Ralek85

@WaveBoy I said it in a post a couple ones up already ... they have to. If they don't the PS4 will roll right over them and the WiiU will make the GC look pretty succesfull. I hope you are right, I want the WiiU to succeed. I want to play amazing games on it, Nintendo for the first time in HD, whats not to love ? But this ain't charity. Nintendo has to show something that pushes me over the edge. I love what I'm seeing off X and Bayonetta (not really my genre though) but it is just not enough. The games market is to crowded, I can only repeat myself here. I feel extremly well coverd by PS4/Vita as well as 3DS and PC (not counting all the last gen systems which aside from the PS3 are "in storage" for the time being^^). I don't necessarily share your optimism but I do hope you are right on the money with it!

Edited on by Ralek85

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DualWielding

Ryno wrote:

ferthepoet wrote:

@rockdoodle the problem is that Nintendo games are still more expensive than the competition due to lack of good digital sales, region lock, Nintendo rarely dropping the price of flagship titles, and less of a used market for Nintendo games than for Playstation or 360 games... so it still looks as a bad value

Because selling yourself to the lowest buyers is a good business strategy.

Selling only to the hardcore that would buy anything by Nintendo no matter the price its clearly no working

PSN: Fertheseeker

DualWielding

Ryno wrote:

ferthepoet wrote:

@rockdoodle the problem is that Nintendo games are still more expensive than the competition due to lack of good digital sales, region lock, Nintendo rarely dropping the price of flagship titles, and less of a used market for Nintendo games than for Playstation or 360 games... so it still looks as a bad value

Because selling yourself to the lowest buyers is a good business strategy.

Selling only to the hardcore that would buy anything by Nintendo no matter the price its clearly no working

PSN: Fertheseeker

Technosphile

All of this--Nintendo's kiddie image, lack of third party support, technical impotence--goes back 20 years, decisions made in the 1990s. It's all coming home to roost.

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SammytheSaiyan

No one can say Nintendo hasn't been trying, because they have been. They've delivered New Super Mario Bros. U and full-scale DLC for it, Nintendo Land, Pikmin 3, Legend of Zelda: Wind Waker HD, Donkey Kong Country: Tropical Freeze, and pretty soon: Mario Kart 8 and Super Smash Bros. 4. Plus, let's not forget the titles that'll be announced at E3 2014 and the eShop & Virtual Console titles. Nintendo has been trying, and people are treating them like trash for it. Nintendo is doing nothing wrong and are giving people what they asked for. I do agree that they can improve in some aspects, but what company shouldn't?

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MikeLove

SCAR392 wrote:

Kodeen wrote:

SCAR392 wrote:

Games are virtual, regardless. That was the point I was trying to make. Calling games from past systems VC games is purely semantic. Virtual Console doesn't imply emulators or old games at all. That's just how Nintendo has categorized it from newer games.

The 'virtual' in virtual console is in regards to the 'console' in virtual console, not the the games. That's why it's called Virtual Console. As in there isn't an actual SNES, etc... there hooked up to your TV. The SNES is virtual. So yes, virtual console implies emulated games. Your Wii U is a physical thing that exists, and games written for the Wii U are running on an actual console.

So I guess you guys think that those little 100 in 1 games are VC, too? All these thing are virtual, whether it's running on the original console or not. Virtual has a ton of definitions. Just forget I said anything.

This exchange deserves to be read again

MikeLove

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