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Topic: Fire Emblem Series Discussion

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DarthNocturnal

@Socar

That's the thing; it doesn't HAVE to compete with Mario, Zelda, Pokemon, etc. That was my point. That, and that pushing a half-hearted game out as a "test" for a franchise is a lame approach.

I wasn't calling Awakening or Fates one of the half-baked games. Hence why it got lucky. But I am questioning the direction they are taking the series in.

Also, Intelligent Systems doesn't have it's own IPs. In fact, if you look through their history, they've co-developed a LOT of titles (especially WarioWare). They aren't only good for Fire Emblem (although, it is the franchise we currently hear the most about). I'd consider them similar to Monolith Soft.

Edited on by DarthNocturnal

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Socar

@DarthNocturnal: Ok let's get one thing clear.... you don't need to get both games to enjoy the entire experience.

Secondly, Some IP's are partly owned by Systems...kinda like how Game Freak sort of owns Pokemon. If not, then why does it say Nintendo/Intelligent Systems in the credits?

I have no idea where the series can go from here. What I do feel though is that they definitely won't do the fates approach again but they are just going to do the Awakening style which is depressing considering how much fun I had with Conquest.

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LzWinky

Socar wrote:

Secondly, Some IP's are partly owned by Systems...kinda like how Game Freak sort of owns Pokemon. If not, then why does it say Nintendo/Intelligent Systems in the credits?

Intelligent Systems is completely owned by Nintendo, so it doesn't matter. They are a studio like Nintendo EAD and several others.

Game Freak, on the other hand, is third party.

Edited on by LzWinky

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DarthNocturnal

Socar wrote:

@DarthNocturnal: Ok let's get one thing clear.... you don't need to get both games to enjoy the entire experience.

I can't play Birthright to get the Conquest experience, and vice versa. Neither give me the Revelations experience, so, yes, I do need all three games to get the full experience.

I don't know for sure if the games were split just because they COULD do that (nobody but Nintendo and IS do). But I do know that it might've gone over better if it was a story told with releases made over the next few years (like a sequel, or some expansions). And if we didn't live in a time when content is often intentionally held back, just to sell later.

I do know that I'm probably not getting Fates until certain criteria are met. Ideally, a return of the 3-in-1 cart. I may settle for 2-in-1, or for a nice sale price, but the first option is the best. It doesn't have to be the SE with the artbook and pouch.

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Socar

TingLz wrote:

Socar wrote:

Secondly, Some IP's are partly owned by Systems...kinda like how Game Freak sort of owns Pokemon. If not, then why does it say Nintendo/Intelligent Systems in the credits?

Intelligent Systems is completely owned by Nintendo, so it doesn't matter. They are a studio like Nintendo EAD and several others.

Game Freak, on the other hand, is third party.

From what I have heard from guys over here, Intelligent Systems isn't owned by Nintendo. They are more of second party developers who are just loyal to Nintendo.

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Socar

DarthNocturnal wrote:

Socar wrote:

@DarthNocturnal: Ok let's get one thing clear.... you don't need to get both games to enjoy the entire experience.

I can't play Birthright to get the Conquest experience, and vice versa. Neither give me the Revelations experience, so, yes, I do need all three games to get the full experience.

I don't know for sure if the games were split just because they COULD do that (nobody but Nintendo and IS do). But I do know that it might've gone over better if it was a story told with releases made over the next few years (like a sequel, or some expansions). And if we didn't live in a time when content is often intentionally held back, just to sell later.

I do know that I'm probably not getting Fates until certain criteria are met. Ideally, a return of the 3-in-1 cart. I may settle for 2-in-1, or for a nice sale price, but the first option is the best. It doesn't have to be the SE with the artbook and pouch.

You do realize that it will take a long time for that to happen right?

Also, if next gen isn't going to be backwards compatible for 3DS, its not going to be easy to get the game(s) then.

And for the record, I have beaten Conquest and never have I felt that I missed out the Birthright side of things. Sure, I never expected the character designs in birthright to be amusing, but I got my money's worth in the end past the few flaws I had with conquest.

And just to get to more detail here, Nintendo has never once stated that the game was going to be one. If you intend this to act like sequel bunches instead of accepting the games for what they are, what difference does it make when they still cost the same price?

If anything, you get the other path at a cheaper price if you decide to do so.

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DarthNocturnal

Socar wrote:

You do realize that it will take a long time for that to happen right?

I can wait.

Socar wrote:

Also, if next gen isn't going to be backwards compatible for 3DS, its not going to be easy to get the game(s) then.

I'll cross that bridge if / when I need to. Plus, it's still a new release, and on a current gen system. Even if the NX launches this year, I doubt ALL options for getting the game will vanish (retail or otherwise).

Socar wrote:

And just to get to more detail here, Nintendo has never once stated that the game was going to be one. If you intend this to act like sequel bunches instead of accepting the games for what they are, what difference does it make when they still cost the same price?

If anything, you get the other path at a cheaper price if you decide to do so.

They never said it wouldn't be one until later. It was just "Fire Emblem if", (later Fates for other regions). THEN they suddenly revealed the two game setup. Hence the disappointment.

I'm aware that, in the long term, prices wouldn't be much different. Even in Canada, buying the SE was similarly priced to one game + other as expac + Revelations. But it's the "all at once" approach this game took with it's release. They wanted that much more right off the bat for everything.

Golden Sun was also split, but for other reasons. The carts couldn't hold the entire game (not an issue with Fates), and they had a deadline. So they took what they had, released it, and continued working on the rest. Said remainder of game took about 1 1/2-2 years to finish. It wasn't on the shelves at the same time as the first part.

StarCraft II is another good example. They didn't have all three parts suddenly ready to go on launch day. There was a solid 2+ year gap between expacs.

It's the feeling many get when a game has a $60+ price tag, but also a $50 season pass before it's even out. Extra content is one thing, but when you ask for nearly the same price as the game for most / all of the bonus content upfront... yeah, red flags.

As for whether that upfront cost is worth it... well, I guess that remains to be seen. For me, that is.

Edited on by DarthNocturnal

"Sometimes, I just don't understand human behavior" - C-3P0

Socar

@DarthNocturnal: Funny how you ignore Oracle of Ages and Seasons but instead went to Golden Sun which requires you to play the games inorder if story is something of your concern here.

They are just telling you which game to pick for your own taste so that if you are curious of how things would've turned out the other way or if you want more content, you pick the other path. I don't understand the mindset at all here.

Its just done fast instead of first releasing this game and then later that game, and never did the game made me feel like I'm missing lots of content. I may not get as much more content in Conquest compared to Birthright since the replayability in Conquest is limited but I still had a solid experience in the game and it now motivates me to get Birthright.

I can easily tell you that the stories from what I've heard from many aren't too strong nor do they force you to get the other games unlike Golden Sun or Oracle of Ages/Seasons which does force you to get both games to get the ending. Conquest Story started out intriguing at first but the end was just a disappointment to me.

But that didn't ruin my overall experience with the game. Infact, it now motivates me to get the next game as well as the DLC one.

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DarthNocturnal

@Socar

Socar wrote:

Funny how you ignore Oracle of Ages and Seasons but instead went to Golden Sun which requires you to play the games inorder if story is something of your concern here.

The Oracle games are similar, but they also come from another time. Back before season passes, withholding content, etc. It was easier to believe they were more unique entries (even though it can be argued that they could've just as easily been one game). And you require all three pieces of Fates if story is something of concern, because from what I heard, it IS told throughout all three parts.

Socar wrote:

They are just telling you which game to pick for your own taste so that if you are curious of how things would've turned out the other way or if you want more content, you pick the other path. I don't understand the mindset at all here.

I wanted to pick the whole thing, but apparently Nintendo STILL can't stock a special edition decently to save their life. That also annoys me.

Socar wrote:

I can easily tell you that the stories from what I've heard from many aren't too strong nor do they force you to get the other games unlike Golden Sun or Oracle of Ages/Seasons which does force you to get both games to get the ending. Conquest Story started out intriguing at first but the end was just a disappointment to me.
But that didn't ruin my overall experience with the game. Infact, it now motivates me to get the next game as well as the DLC one.

The Golden Sun and Oracle games are (or are not) forcing you anymore then Fates. They are a piece of a whole. They are a piece because Nintendo split them. I'm just not 100% sold on why Fates was split. Even after I've beaten all three parts (whenever I get around to getting them), I may feel the same way. Maybe I wont.

In the meantime, I choose to wait.

Edited on by DarthNocturnal

"Sometimes, I just don't understand human behavior" - C-3P0

Socar

^Ok whatever suits you.

Meanwhile, I'm still scratching my head wondering why NoA here can localize the cards to the west?

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Socar

I hate how many ignore Fire Emblem as one of Nintendo's main IPs.

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Socar

So.....no one seems to talk much here......well then......let's talk something we can agree on.

I think Nintendo might want to return those awesome animations they had back in the GBA days eh?

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Socar

Seriously......nobody wants to chat about Fire Emblem??????

Ok, how's this? Do you think Fire Emblem is more popular than Metroid? Yes or No?

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yokokazuo

@Socar due to Fates' recent release in NA, most people would probably be talking about that game and in the Fates forum section.

To answer your question though, Metroid was definitely at least more popular before Awakening. Currently Metroid still has more sales overall on average, but there hasn't been a new game since Other M so it is a little hard to compare with Awakening and Fates. (And FF doesn't look like it will sell as well)

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Socar

@Kazuo: Well the things I talked about recently was NoA ignoring to release the trading cards to the west, how many seem to ignore FE as a Nintendo IP and how the animations are supreme in GBA games compared to the consoles....all of which aren't worth discussing in Fates forums now are they?

Well, you can't judge a book by its cover. Some thought that the division that Fates had was gonna ruin potential sales but look what happened otherwise!

I want Fire Emblem to do well because its an amazing series that needs recognition.

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yokokazuo

@Socar true, I just think it may be a little bit before this thread can get more popular. People may sometimes talk about other things related to the FE series, but for now most conversations are related to Fates.

Also about the other things you mentioned.
As a big Fire Emblem fan, I would love to have some of the cards from Cypher, but I don't think it would do that well overall. There are quite a few Fire Emblem fans now, but I'm not sure how many would be willing to buy Cypher and overall the Fire Emblem fan base is a lot smaller than Pokémon.
I think Fire Emblem does have a larger following in Japan which is why the cards are sold there. (I'm not sure how well card games sell in any region now though. I used to collect a lot of Pokémon cards, but don't anymore and nor do I collect any other kinds of cards)

I think the animations are one of the reasons why I like FE7 so much, although I can't quite say if we will see them again. (They did go back to sprites for the character's map icons in Awakening though)

The reason it seems that Metroid FF may not do so well is since it doesn't seem to be focussed on exploration and may be too focussed on multiplayer.

Regardless I do believe that Fire Emblem already has enough recognition now. It isn't one of the most successful franchises, but it has enough sales to keep the series alive.

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Socar

@Kazuo: That's what really bothers me. Just tell me, what does Intelligent Systems have besides Fire Emblem?

There is no doubt in my mind that Fates can easily top a million.....it'd be stupid if it can't.

You know, if Nintendo wouldn't scare us if some of the IP's we love so dearly don't sell well, we'd never see them again like chibi-robo for example.....and that's worrying because they need their IP to be in the industry. Fire Emblem is one IP that they have to like value as much as the others.....heck, its even doing better than what F-Zero could have ever hoped to achieve.

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DarthNocturnal

Cipher / Cypher is actually the 2nd FE TCG, if I recall. I'm not sure if FE's audience outside of Japan is far enough out of niche territory to warrent selling them, but it wouldn't be that surprising if they did come, I guess.

The GBA games did indeed have awesome animations. I never felt the need to turn them off. The only GBA games with better spritework would probably be the Golden Sun games.

Unless Federation Force sells like gangbusters, I'm not sure we'll know if Metroid still has brand power until a new main game is released.

Socar wrote:

Fire Emblem is one IP that they have to like value as much as others.....heck, its even doing better than what F-Zero could have ever hoped to achieve.

Given that the last F-Zero was released in... what, 2003.... is that really a fair claim?

Edited on by DarthNocturnal

"Sometimes, I just don't understand human behavior" - C-3P0

SomeBitTripFan

DarthNocturnal wrote:

Socar wrote:

Fire Emblem is one IP that they have to like value as much as others.....heck, its even doing better than what F-Zero could have ever hoped to achieve.

Given that the last F-Zero was released in... what, 2003.... is that really a fair claim?

Can I add? The last notable F-Zero game came out on the Gamecube, a console competing with the PS2, was not designed for mass appeal, was outsourced to SEGA (who I doubt were given the warning that F-Zero would be going on the hiatus it's now on), and was the third (the GBA entries honestly shouldn't count) game to come to the US. When you compare that with Awakening, which was on 3DS, the only successful dedicated gaming handheld of its generation, was designed for wider appeal, and was the sixth game to come to the west, it shouldn't be a question as to why the series has more traction than F-Zero, currently. If Fire Emblem hadn't shifted as it did in Awakening, it would probably be in the same place. It was given a chance though, which it (almost unfortunately) took.

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Socar

@SomeBitTripFan: It all comes to what IP Nintendo values most. Kid Icarus isn't something Nintendo doesn't seem to care much off, the same goes for F-Zero and I get that its business moves that cause those IP to fade fast.

But here's where Fire Emblem is really in need for Nintendo because its one of the few IP's that Nintendo has that does the following.

1. Has matured content
2. Hardcore gaming

If Nintendo gets rid of Fire Emblem, they partly get rid of themselves because they rely on their IP and its a known fact. I hate seeing Chibi Robo and Wario series now gone because it looks like Nintendo doesn't seem to want to make more games out of those IP.

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