Topic: Zelda's Wii U-Turn to NX

It has more to do with things like the Unreal4 engine doesn't support Wii U, which means that developers need to port it themselves, this is no simple task and no one knows how much job that might be. The difference between x86 and PowerPC in game development are miniscule, since they are programming in C++, not assembler.

Custom chip means that they did some modifications before they gave it to nintendo. It is still based on the Power6. You really need to fact-check the things you spout, it was an RUMOUR before it was released saying it was Power7. Not that it matters all that much.

The new consoles were pretty much outdated when they were released compared with high-end gaming PCs. But they are not competing with PCs, they are competing with each other. Therefor their relative power is more interesting than comparing it with other machines. And they are pretty similar, except for the Wii U. Porting to Wii U is a risk because the install base is small and things like shaders might need to rewritten.

Stop spouting technical terms, it is painful to listen to them being manhandled the way you are. Can't you atleast google a bit before you spout technical terms?

You are the calling Wii U "current" hardware, capable of having the same stuff as the "Power Twins". And now you are comparing it to Xbox 360...

Steambox from nintendo is about as likely as "NX is a micro-console", that is practically nil. Why should I write sony about the PS TV? They already know it is trash. http://www.sony.net/SonyInfo/IR/library/fr/14q3_sony.pdf -> " as well as the recording of an 11.2 billion yen (93 million
U.S. dollars) write-down of PS Vita and PS TV components. This write-down was recorded because the latest
forecast of PS TV unit sales does not reach our original forecast as a result of lower than expected unit sales in the
current quarter"

Roku, Kindle Fire TV and chromecast are completely different machines. Nintendo can never ever do the same thing as them. They simply don't have a chance to beat them on their strengths and I doubt VC would convince people otherwise.

We haven't seen any arguments from you why a micro-console could work. Convince us of its strengths instead of putting words in peoples mouth. Since you are doing it all the time, including your quote about "not replacing Wii U and 3DS" from nintendo.

The thing about these sort of devices is that they often don't really "run" software. Chromecast and Steam Link for example are 100% streaming boxes and that's how they can be as cheap as they are. The ones that are a bit more expensive like the Fire TV, Roku, PSTV and Apple TV? Well they can run software but the main appeal is still in streaming content.

The problem with Nintendo copying that though is that they have to assume you already have the hardware. It wouldn't be its own thing it would be an accessory for an existing piece of hardware. So it wouldn't really have its own software which makes you wonder why the dev kits are doing out. That doesn't add up. I can't see this idea working, they would have to make it powerful enough that it can run its own software.

Then you run into a different problem though. In order to be more feature rich they'd have to raise the price from <$100US. But then you're effectively just selling a Wii U or 3DS clone. In a couple of years time that's how much their existing platforms will cost, the 2DS is there already. That's an issue, such a product would be DoA. Therefore in order to make it a worthwhile release? It'd have to be closer to $250US. At which point it has enough hardware that you're replacing the Wii U or 3DS.

@skywake: My point was that even if they did manage to release a cheap stand-alone micro-console (something like stripping a mid-range phone and adding a cheap plastic controller) they would still not be able to compete with the other giants in the field. It is not like Nintendo will ever have the content (apps/streaming etc) the others have. What would the killer feature be? VC? An OnLive service?
And what would Nintendo gain by releasing this over a Wii U mini?

My stance is that NX is most likely a Home Console. It might be an handheld, but I think it is more probable that mobile (if successful of course) will replace handhelds. I also think it will be on-par (but not overpowered) with the competition. And they have thought about some sort of feature that should be easy to implement and give some value.

But I would rather have a Nintendo-made Steambox with Mario and Zelda on it.
A steambox would actually solve many of the problems Nintendo have had, such as content droughts, having third-party titles, multimedia functionality and lower development costs. And they could concentrate on doing great games. And to clarify, I don't think that will happen.

@Therad:
TBH the only major thing I disagree with you about is your assessment of where portables are. The issue I have with it is that despite portables slowing down Nintendo still makes quite a bit out of them. In terms of the rate current gen systems have sold the 3DS is about equal first with the PS4. Is it a smaller market than it was in 2005? Definitely. But smaller and dead are not the same thing. If mobile was going to kill the portable market entirely it would have done it by now.

I think we will get both a portable and a non-portable system within the next few years from Nintendo. Whatever one is first will be the NX. My personal view is that at this stage the 3DS has peaked and so it should get replaced first. Doing that could easily allow them to move quite a few more pieces of portable hardware. Because it's the hardware that's holding them back there. My concern with the home console space is that a new piece of hardware won't solve their home console issues. Even if they went all out with Zelda and Metroid on a powerhouse console I suspect that people would still ignore it and buy the PS4 instead.

I don't think the handheld market is dead, but next gen it will be even smaller. Small cheap tablets are given to kids nowadays, not DSs. And I also think that if Nintendo releases a home console in 2016, they would be in much better shape than trying to go head to head with PSONE. They can release a console with the same power and not to expensive.

But I wouldn't be super surprised if NX is an handheld. I just think there are more benefits to release a home console now. I don't think Sony will release another handheld, so they have that market cornered.

So right now it's all but confirmed that NX is a girl, nintendo is a handheld and link is a dedicated video game system.

Got it. Carry on.

Well I'm not one to ignore a good opportunity to post a graph so here we go!

A few things I can see here that are interesting.....

• tablet sales appear to have peaked
• the portable market is about 45% smaller than it was last generation
• the entire portable market is almost as big as Nintendo was last-gen
• this portable generation really slowed down in 2014 (not unlike the 2010 slump pre-3DS)
• I didn't include any labels (doesn't matter though, we're talking relative sales anyway)

I'm not going to say what that means, read into it however you want. But I think you know what I'm taking out of this.

@Therad: The general notion seems to be that handhelds are declining, but I'd argue otherwise. The last generation was just an anomaly:

GB + GBC: 119 million (can't find separate numbers)
GBA: 82 million
DS: 155 million + PSP: 81 million = 236 million
3DS 55 million + PSV: 13 million = 68 million

There were more handhelds in the 80's and 90's, but I believe only the Sega Game Gear had a modest success. But the exact sales aren't important, it's just to give you a rough idea of the situation. Anyway, if the 3DS and PSV keep selling for another year or two (or three?), they will most definitely reach GBA sales numbers, somewhere between the Gameboy and GBA would be my best guess. My point is that mobile might've taken back a good chunk of the audience that bought a DS or PSP, but this generation's numbers are were the handheld market was before the 7th gen. If you take out the DS and PSP, you'll see that not a whole lot has changed. I don't think that next generation will sell noticeably less handheld units, on average, it'll be the same as the current generation.

So a quick thought process: the market seems ready for a handheld, if that's the case and the next console is a longer way off than the internet assumes - which is supported by the concept of the average life cycle duration - we'll end up buying the next handheld and Zelda specifically for the Wii u, with Zelda being used to stall the longevity of the Wii u even further.

Whatever is next becomes irrelevant, or new speculation after the next handheld.

I would say that your graph shows a shrinking market for handhelds and a saturated market for tablets. Which makes sense, since they are both luxury items and therefore has a cap.

But to be fair, handhelds biggest competitor is not tablets, it is smartphones. Not saying tablets haven't taken part of the cake, but smartphones are the main culprit to squash gaming on the go.

@erv: even if nx is an handheld, the wii u is also due for a replacement in 2017 if they follow their usual console cycle.

Another possibility could be that they will release both an handheld and home console at the same time. This would explain the rumours about an handheld device without it being an hybrid.

https://www.nintendolife.com/news/2015/11/mutant_mudds_super_c...

Mutant Mudds delay confirms it's coming to NX

@skywake
I'm not refraining from debating NX as a replacement console, because I don't want the current ones to be replaced. That's BS to even assume I would think of discussing a topic like that. I only said NX was the "bridge", because smartphones and tablets, but who's to be nitpicky that it would be wrong to say it is anyway? I get it, the "bridge" is the connection between all of them(including theme parks). There's nothing more to be said about it.
Also, ya I'm going to think replacing the consoles is part of the "crazy bin", because Nintendo already said it won't, and I've already been throwing tons of evidence out there for why it wouldn't, which is why I'm saying it's BS to assume that the only reason why I think it won't replace anything, is because I don't want it to.

@Therad
Actually, it is mostly based on Power7.I'm the one googling here, not the other way around, That's why it's BS that you said Power8 is the most current, when we're talking about PowerPC from 2011, and developers can hardly handle it, as it is. You aren't understanding my posts. I said Wii U is comparable to last generation; only by PowerPC, but not the specific specs like the GPGPU, and I already said that. Reading comprehension helps. No offense, but you should work on it.

@Therad
I was going to plot iPhone sales also but you did make a point of saying it was more about tablets. Plus the issue with plotting smartphones is that the struggle between Android and iOS messes things up a bit. That and the fact that people tend to replace their phones far more frequently than they do tablets or consoles for that matter.

Either way there is still a market for dedicated portables and I wouldn't say that Nintendo would be wasting their time releasing another one. Sony would be wasting their time, the market is too small for two players now. But one player can still do pretty damn well. At this point the 3DS is in the last couple of years based on the way sales are travelling. The fact that the New 3DS exists is further evidence that they are trying to stretch it out just a tiny bit longer.

@SCAR
You said that Nintendo already said they won't replace them. Remember that bit just before you claimed to have proof that the NX is the "bridge" device? Where I posted that entire quote about Nintendo "not simply replacing" the 3DS and Wii U? Do you really want to go around in circles again? Again, I don't think you want to listen to anyone here. You'd rather ignore the evidence and just go on parroting the same stuff over and over again.

I am not surprised, and I for one is actually looking forward to seeing it in 4k ultra-hd.

@SCAR: you are looking at old rumours. "Rumors that the Wii U CPU was derived from IBM's high end POWER7 server processor proved false. Espresso shares some technology with POWER7, such as eDRAM and Power Architecture, but those are superficial similarities" from wikipedia, with references.

Ok, can you please enlighten men on what your definition of a gpgpu is?

I think we'll end up seeing the next main Zelda entry on both NX and Wii U. It might happen similarly to how it did on Wii and GameCube or not...but I guess only time will tell.

Also, @Morpheel https://www.nintendolife.com/users/Morpheel How do I add a video in my signature? (The reason why I made the thread in the first place was to get opinions from the Nintendo Life forum community on what they thought/have some fun discussions about the NX. But if you can't make topics about ideas, I understand).

@skywake
Ya. There's a reason why I keep saying the same things over and over again. I didn't say the "bridge" part was proof; I said smartphones/tablets with DenA(which is the company developing the "bridge"), and QoL were reasons to think that NX will be hardware that runs all that, specifically with QoL in mind. The QoL stuff is supposed to be mostly its own thing, so that is why I think NX would be the hardware to run it, while still being a gaming machine, I look at the vitality sensor(regardless of how stupid people think it is) and how they were supposed to make that work for games, otherwise we could say anything could happen w/o including QoL into the discussion for what their new hardware could be. That is still besides the "bridge", mobile, and the Nintendo Account.

@Therad
That is still saying it is at least loosely based on Power7, which is why I mentioned it was custom PowerPC, and all of the console hardware is based on some sort of technical influence. For all we know, it could be slightly enhanced Power7, that's why it makes no sense that anyone would assume it's any less, if absolutely no one has that sort of information to begin with. I could google for like an hour and try to find what is inside Power7, but I don't feel like it, and what would be the point if no one believes it anyway? We at least know that it has some Power7 in it, just from wikipedia.

The GPGPU parallel processes CPU instructions, while a GPU does not. That basically means it can processes twice as much by default, and in whatever order in tandem with the CPU(which the GPU also did, but less). Anyone who knows the difference between a GPGPU and GPU, wouldn't have questioned whether Wii U was more capable than 7th generation, since day one. That's how pathetic most of the tech talk has always been on these forums, and I'm not making s*** up, just because I have always gotten the next Nintendo and play Smash Bros.

It's hard enough as it is, hardware aside. That's why you are still getting ports of 7th generation games on even Xbox One and PS4, because the game design and graphics are still pretty good for what they are and that much more work has to go into it in order to step out of last generation hardware. The biggest step in gaming the hardware has done, as far I can tell, is that one game on Xbox One, where time freezes and the world gets all warped and distorted. The world in the game will probably be all small and linear, though, but those are the graphics I'm talking about,
Even games like Smash Bros. and Mario Kart on Wii U weren't possible on PS3, because of Wii U's more capable hardware, and the reason I know that, is because PS Battle Royale and LBP: Karting exist, and were the best efforts from Sony to directly compare them to, and I'm talking more than just about graphics, which I will agree are still mostly the same, but the same can be said about PS4 and Xbox One.

To call out a user you have to @ them not link their profile. To add a video just put the url in your signature from the edit profile page.

Thank you for the info!