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Topic: The Nintendo Switch Thread

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Knuckles-Fajita

@Operative2-0 To be fair I'm working on keeping my interests and things I like on the low down. People in my Game Dev Network find my "Endless Nintendo Positivity" (Yes, really) irritating, and ask why I keep sharing and talking about games no one cares about.

No one from here should go there XD Ever.

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49/50 followers - Sep 2

Ralizah

A game console will rise or fall on its library. It can have the best library and concept in the world, but if the games don't resonate with you, then it doesn't even matter.

Let people have their opinions, and we can have ours. I certainly make it known when I'm not enjoying a game or system.

Edited on by Ralizah

Ralizah

Knuckles-Fajita

@Octane What PS4 is: A game console that has none of what I loved about past systems.

Well let's be real. What it is, is not interesting to me. And part of that is in fact, because of what was discarded. If I view it in isolation like I do most things? Well...

It's a perfectly fine console. Capable, CPU aside, and crap controllers aside, and ignoring the online fee, but a lot of the games are...not in my line of taste. The wider library, while as large as other systems at this time, isn't aiming at me, at all. It's a perfectly fine system, hampered by the above issues, and by not being aimed at me, despite past consoles doing so.

And no, Knack doesn't count.

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49/50 followers - Sep 2

MisterPi

@BLP_Software Haha, I get you. As someone that is often on an opposing viewpoint on many things on this forum, I know how it is to be seen as the negative nancy, the buzzkill or the killjoy. It sucks, but it also at least encourages discussion like your post above. Of course, your college doesn't seem to offer much discussion either way, but at least we know not everyone thinks like your university. Yet, at least.

MisterPi

Ralizah

@Operative2-0 I mean, some people are relentlessly negative, and obnoxiously loud about it. That's not the same thing as sharing feelings of discontent or disappointment in something in a constructive manner.

I make it known when I don't like something, but I don't belabor the point constantly and try to drag other people down to my level of misery.

Edited on by Ralizah

Ralizah

Knuckles-Fajita

@Operative2-0 They were all very...anti-Nintendo there (They said the GBA should count towards GameBoy sales, and other quite asinine things!) and the other students were...well lets say all too willing to just roll with it.

Whereas I have this instinctive, not even learnt but natural approach to game design that falls exactly in line with how Japanese development goes.

My real worry is this is what the next generation of developers are being taught, by people funded by companies like EA and Sony.

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49/50 followers - Sep 2

MisterPi

@Ralizah I think even that has its place. To be honest I get what you mean, I can sometimes be like that myself, but in the end I think they all deserve some sort of reflection of some sort. I feel similarly to the ridiculously over the top praises I see sometimes. Not just here, but in general.

MisterPi

Octane

@BLP_Software Hey, I was only joking

I haven't played Knack yet, I joke a lot about it, but it does look like a mediocre platformer/action game to me, so I'm not interested. I still need to play Ratchet & Clank though. However from what I've played of Gravity Rush, Tearaway and The Last Guardian this gen, I do hope they continue to make games that aren't the typical realistic game, and are a bit more experimental in nature. None of them sold well unfortunately...

Octane

Pazzo-ZaFool

Whenever I feel dragged down by constant whining or uninformed and foolish dunces, I take a walk. I live by two rules:
1. Don't sweat the little things.
2. Your hopes are just as rational as your fears.

At the end of the day, it's just video games.

'The shortest route was a detour. It was a detour that was our shortest path.'
~~youtu.be/r0HnIr6jYWU~~

Knuckles-Fajita

@Octane I haven't played Knack yet either. That game seemed to fall into the Sonic 1, Crash 1, Pokémon Gen 1 of "Okay, you've got something here, refine it in a sequel" kind of thing, but apparently that wasn't meant to be with the unequivocal failure the sequel was.

I think Knack was a victim of it's own hubris. Being a PS4 launch title meant it had big things to show alongside Killzone and a remastered PS3 game from a year prior, but that lead to same unhealthy expectations.

That and Mark Cerny should just...stick to hardware really. Let's be real. (Even then Id argue he isn't good at it, given his idea of an upgrade is overclock the already bottleneck inducing CPU, and put an even BIGGER GPU and heatsink in there, boom done, whereas the Switch and One X both follows Moore's Law of more power = smaller form factor!)

Ratchet and Clank is a great time. The reason I bought a PS4. Sadly its likely to be the only entry we get on the system, so...there's that I guess. Maybe Spyro remakes will happen? Though given Spyro was my first ever game I will rain unholy criticism if anything is remotely out of line with that, more so than I did with Crash

I hope Sony continues to make these none service based games too. Otherwise that leaves Nintendo as the sole bastion of an era. Problem is, for some reason, they don't sell too well on PS4. Niche I guess? Or maybe the PS4 marketing and angle really has damaged the potential of games they used to be really good at selling in the PS1 and 2 days. It'd be rough but understandable if their mature push has built a market simply not interested in these kinds of games we are, and it just became unprofitable.

Sony needs to understand, as Nintendo seemingly has with their need for mature games (Which we are getting a swathe off in a month span soon!), that you really do need to cater for everyone. Sony did that so well in earlier systems, but right now, with PS4? It's great, but a shame they only started doing that 3 years in and realising, hey, maybe people want other styles of games.

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49/50 followers - Sep 2

StuTwo

@Operative2-0 I think that over the top praise has little value. I don't really want to hear opinions from an echo chamber...

...at the same time though if everyone in the echo chamber is happy and they're not hurting anyone outside then why not let them be a bit happy?

I think it's a shame if @BLP_Software is feeling a bit down on the Switch. It's a shame if he's feeling a bit down in general.

He's not the first person to have put all of their passions into a hobby and found that the hobby doesn't turn out to be quite what it is to other people what it is to him and doesn't quite give back what he'd hoped it would.

We've all stared into that deep dark abyss wondering 'why do I have 6 copies of Pokemon, 2 GBA's, countless GC-GBA connector cables and multiple Gamecube memory cards full of Pokemon box eggs? Is this making me happy?'

...

Personally I'm very, very happy with my Switch. It's not perfect, the operating system and ancillary services need a lot of work and the majority of games on Switch so far have appeared on other formats (often much earlier and much cheaper). But I think that's reality for modern games development - particularly for smaller developers.

We're not in the 80's any more - all consoles are built along pretty similar lines and almost all games are built on middleware anyway. It's not like the 16 bit days when the Mega Drive had an Aladdin game that the SNES couldn't have handled and the SNES had a completely different Aladdin game that the Mega Drive couldn't have handled. Given it's easy and cheap to port it will happen and should - even if it adds only 10-20% to the existing stack of sales it's likely to be worth the time. Unless there's a specific commercial deal that makes exclusivity more attractive (these will only normally happen for bigger AAA games that sell the hardware or make a statement).

So indies will always be multi-platform. But Switch is an ideal home for them and may even become the most important platform for indies over the next few years.

I see the Switch as an incredibly promising start, in which Nintendo has got all of their marketing and development ducks in a row for perhaps the first time ever. It will be successful and Nintendo will remain in 'the game'. It's a long way to go before it realises all of that potential though.

Roll on Mario.

StuTwo

Switch Friend Code: SW-6338-4534-2507

NEStalgia

@BLP_Software
On Switch: Well of course portability is a core appeal of it....it's the first and only of it's kind, so that's a big deal. It fills a need/desire that was previously unfulfilled by any product so it will resonate with a lot of people in a big way. As a dedicated handheld it's mindblowing in it's power and games it can run, and more importantly in its input schemes. And as you said, as a hybrid it's excellent. Sure it has no particular hardware strength as a dedicated tv console. There's little reason to buy it over a PS4 as a dedicated TV box as it's worse at that particular job. HOWEVER, it has a different library consisting of many games you can't get on the other platforms, and ultimately more games (like Fire Emblem) that were locked to portable only will be brought to the TV for play for the first time since the Wii....so there's definitely merit to it for any player. I get what you're saying, but I don't think the value of it is diminished in a meaningful way if you prefer one of its modes mostly or exclusively, so long as the library appeals to you. Sure playing Doom or Wolfenstein on Switch seems a poor choice compared to PS4 or PC if you prefer it to look the best it can or play as smooth as it can and don't need it to leave your TV. OTOH, I you couldn't pay me enough to play Disgaea 5 on a PS4. Yes, because of portable. Don't need portable? You still gain the benefit of instant-on instant-off suspend rather than waiting for a snail PS4 or PC to boot and shut down. It's still a different experience even as a dedicated tv box.

Game degree: Well, there's your problem. University is almost always the wrong solution to any problem outside fields like medicine, law, architecture, engineering, natural/theoretical science, etc.. You said it yourself, it's an industry sponsored program to produce the employees trained the way they want them to be trained, and YOU get to foot the bill AND pay the middle man for the privilege. OTOH, that is the way the companies want employees trained because that's their interest. But as with most such things the unholy union of corporate and academia produces a fail. Instead of learning a craft/trade/skill/theory, you get an employee training program to a certain school of thought and procedure paid for by yourself. Splitting games for additional revenue streams isn't design principle for learning....it's an employee policy guide.

It has less to do with Western vs. Eastern, and more to do with the company isn't sponsoring the program out of generosity and enlightened principle. They're doing so to force the industry to model itself in their best interest going forward, and they have the pockets to make it happen. Of course it's with some irony that it's a Japanese company doing so.....

And that's certainly what went wrong with the industry if that's the training. Back when the great games were made there was no "university program" to do it. People with the mindset simply made it happen using general knowledge from other fields. As soon as something becomes proceduralized and institutionalized it becomes a jobs program where people are paid to repeat the pre set steps rather than risk deviating from proven formula. As you said: A product. But, then, even Miyamoto said he made "products" back 15+ years ago. It's always been a product, not art, even to him. The difference is he's an industrial designer that applied his know-how in product making along with his own decision making rather than following a factory-line checklist.

I say this with sadness as I haven't an artistic bone in my body, but people that made them before were using their own creativity to solve concepts. What you describe today is training people who like CONSUMING games on how to produce games on an assembly line from Ikea-printed instructions. And now the toolkits exist to make that more doable.

Thus the industry is a mixture of uncreative people who like consuming games therefore wanting to be part of the industry provided they're told what to do, mixed with people who REALLY want to be making $1b summer blockbuster films for Miramax but the gaming industry is easier to get into so they go there and push the budgets.

NEStalgia

Inertiacreep

@BLP_Software how did i insult you? by saying your crying? you ARE crying.... like..

What more do you want?

Do you know how big the video card is in my computer? Do you know how big my computer is? Have you watched the advancement of video game technology since the 80s? Like look how big the switch is.. it is a damn console you can play in your hands.... its not good enough for you? Go ahead and tell me how they could have made it more powerful because i already think its the most impressive piece of technology ive ever seen.

Go ahead... tell me how nintendo should have made a more powerful handheld.

Inertiacreep

link3710

@Inertiacreep They made it incredibly clear that their issue was that the library doesn't have any games that wow them, not the hardware. In fact, they said they rather enjoy the hardware. Why are you trying to argue a non-issue?

link3710

Inertiacreep

@link3710 are you serious? jesus christ tell that dude this [removed] just came out....

@Inertiacreep Seriously, last warning, no profanity, and let's keep it civil here, alright? - Octane

Edited on by Octane

Inertiacreep

Ralizah

@Operative2-0 There's nothing wrong with effusive praise if those feelings are genuine. What's wrong with talking about something you love with other people? It's a hobby! I hate how self-righteousness has infected the gaming community to the point where so many people feel like uncritical enjoyment of something is bad.

And let's be fair: while constructive criticism can serve a positive function in a community, incessant negativity does nothing but spread anger and annoyance to others, and there is nothing good about that. While I harp on about things from time to time, I try to mostly discuss things I love, because I'd rather send positive vibes out to the world than negative ones. What's the sense in me trying to make someone feel bad about something they like?

I do think professional reviewers should maintain a more objective attitude toward the games they review, of course, but I'm not a reviewer and have no desire to distance myself from the hobby in such a manner.

Ralizah

MsJubilee

Hieronymus-E wrote:

Whenever I feel dragged down by constant whining or uninformed and foolish dunces, I take a walk. I live by two rules:
1. Don't sweat the little things.
2. Your hopes are just as rational as your fears.

At the end of the day, it's just video games.

Well to some people on this site. Video games is all they have.

I've died. There is no more me

It is the heavens that have defeated you. This is their will.

Switch Friend Code: SW-5827-3728-4676 | 3DS Friend Code: 3738-0822-0742 | Nintendo Network ID: TwilightAngel9

MisterPi

@Ralizah I don't see that going on unless it's just trolls, though. I see people who are unhappy with some aspects of some things, and then criticized because they don't like it as much as everyone else does. I mean I agree, you shouldn't try and make someone -not- like something, but that's different than airing out your own grievances with it.

Edited on by MisterPi

MisterPi

Octane

@BLP_Software Sony and Nintendo aren't the only developers that make single player games, but they are the only ones that manage to release several of them each year. And most of their games are also a complete package at launch, which I do sometimes miss...

Well, I was talking about non-realistic games. At least their God of Wars, Uncharted, Spider-Mans and whatnot will continue to do fine. Japan Studio usually pumps out a rather unique game every year or so. So here's hoping they will reveal something cool during PSX.

And I still don't understand how there can be a university degree in game development. That's almost like a degree in art. It could be useful for the basics, but you cannot teach someone how to make a good game. Programming can be thought, but there's always an ''arts'' aspect to games.

Octane

Ralizah

@Operative2-0 It's a matter of approach. I don't consider something like BLP's post to be negativity, because he just posted his honest feelings about something in a civil and introspective manner. That's fine. Most posts on here, even the negative ones, are fine, because people can keep a sense of perspective about what they're discussing. There are people who harp on about stuff to the point where they make everyone else around them annoyed and miserable too, though. I should know: I did that EXACT thing on NL when Nintendo was extensively censoring its Wii U/3DS games. It's not that my concerns weren't valid (certainly, some people didn't think they were, but I do), but that I was making my feelings known in an obnoxious and unproductive way that just spread negativity to the people who read my words.

So, no, I don't think it's just trolls who do that. I wasn't a troll. Sometimes people just get too invested in a hobby and make a bigger deal of things than they ought to. They're miserable when they do this, and they want to spread this discontent to others. It's not a good thing.

Edited on by Ralizah

Ralizah

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