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Topic: The Nintendo Switch Thread

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DefHalan

@AlexSays if I could like or upvote a comment, you would get it lol

People keep saying the Xbox One doesn't have Backwards Compatibility.
I don't think they know what Backwards Compatibility means...

3DS Friend Code: 2621-2786-9784 | Nintendo Network ID: DefHalan

IceClimbers

Minecraft Story Mode has been listed on Amazon for $40... $10 more than the other versions.

3DS Friend Code: 2363-5630-0794

skywake

DefHalan wrote:

@NEStalgia Again, I agree a steady flow of games is good. And if Nintendo wants to hold on to titles to pad out their releases, that is their choice. The issue I have is, for hard dates we have...
Zelda - Out Now
12 Switch - Out Now
Snipperclips - Out Now
Mario Kart 8 again - April 28

After that, all release dates are general This season, that season, this year, maybe? We have so little confirmed it dosn't build confidence.

Well, I guess I should get my excel spreadsheet and a wiki article out. Here's a quick run down of the numbers. Obviously this is about quantity not quality and I did move through the list fairly quickly. I didn't included digital only releases and I tried to avoid games like Just Dance which were published by Nintendo in Japan but, I'd argue, don't really count because it wasn't in other regions. But it's good enough for a rough idea.
Untitled
As it stands currently? There has obviously been a dip in the number of "home console" games. Specifically last year. The Switch at this point has already brought things back to normal in that regard. The question is when we will see that ~5 game deficit recovered.

Also, the excuse you're making that the games on Switch don't count? Well, it's a bit of selective vision. Every year has its fair share of "not worthy" games for one reason or another. On that graph above I've given equal weight to Wii Sports Club, Wii Fit U and Animal Crossing Amiibo Festival. I haven't counted Snipperclips and I counted Bayonetta 1&2 as two releases. Mario Kart 8 doesn't count because it's a port? Well I guess I shouldn't have counted the retail release of New Super Luigi U.

But in any case. As it stands I'd hope that the Switch can find an extra 5 or so games in there somewhere to cover that deficit from 2016. I'd expect them to do that over this year and next year. That's based on the raw numbers. I'm not sure what you're expecting but... I expect 11 games this year, 11 games next year. Three unknown releases at E3 and your 2016 drought is explained. And that's going to be super easy for them to do if they are also pulling resources from 3DS.

I certainly don't buy this "there's so little there for the Switch" narrative....

Edited on by skywake

Some playlists: Top All Time Songs, Top Last Year
"Don't stir the pot" is a nice way of saying "they're too dumb to reason with"

OorWullie

@DefHalan The original had public tests and never got delayed.For a first ever go at an online shooter with only 2 Testfires pre-release,I'd say they done pretty well,especially with the Wii U's dated online set up.With the lessons learned from the original,Switch's improved online capabilities and a public test or 2 before release,I'm not sure how you can come to the assumption they'll "most likely find issues that result in a delay".Also how do you know Arms will be missing features?So far we only know of 5 characters and a 1v1 mode as far as I'm aware,although it's already been confirmed there will be more than that at release.

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DefHalan

@skywake not sure what the graph is supposed to show. It looks wrong. I am also not sure what your point is. I am not saying certain games on the Switch don't count, only that some have no interest to me. I also don't think we can assume Nintendo will announce more titles to be released this year, their Fall-Holiday release schedule is already packed, more games would probably just step on each others toes. However, I would be excited if Nintendo announces more games for this year. I hope they do, but I am not assuming they will. Lastly, I am not expecting you to "buy" my opinion that there are less games than I expected for the system this year. Plenty of other people don't seem to be bothered by the amount of games, but some are.

@OorWullie It is normal practice for games with heavy online components to be delayed after public testing or to have missing features at launch. Splatoon 1 had Splatfest events delayed outside of Japan. With the Switch taking a more global approach, I think an overall delay rather than delaying a big feature to the game would work in Nintendo's favor. As for Arms, I remember hearing that the online component wouldn't be ready at launch of the game and we would have to wait for that. Maybe that is old news and things have changed. Maybe I am misrembering things but when they were on stage talking about what Arms would be lacking at launch, I was very disappointed.

People keep saying the Xbox One doesn't have Backwards Compatibility.
I don't think they know what Backwards Compatibility means...

3DS Friend Code: 2621-2786-9784 | Nintendo Network ID: DefHalan

skywake

DefHalan wrote:

@skywake not sure what the graph is supposed to show. It looks wrong. I am also not sure what your point is.

The base of your argument here is that there was a lack of software in the tail end of the Wii U era. A deficit which is yet to be accounted for with Switch content. Your question at its most basic is "where are all the games". So I quantified it and put it into a graph.

The graph looks wrong? Well ok, you can argue that if you want but it's not. What it shows is the number of retail games published by Nintendo per year. The numbers for each platform are stacked ontop of each other. And there are some things we know intuitavely that this graph quantifies.

For example the drop in output of home console games during the transition to HD with the Wii U (down ~3 games/year for 2 years). The explosion of 3DS content in 2013 (~7 games more than usual). The massive slump in content for the Wii U in 2016 (down ~5 games). So using the numbers from that graph I can quantify your question. Where did the resources for Wii U games in 2016 go? More than likely, there are 5 extra games for Switch that will come out in 2017/18. We know of 8 Switch games for 2017 so far. 9-10 would be a typical year. I think we can probably expect 11-12.

DefHalan wrote:

I also don't think we can assume Nintendo will announce more titles to be released this year, their Fall-Holiday release schedule is already packed, more games would probably just step on each others toes. However, I would be excited if Nintendo announces more games for this year. I hope they do, but I am not assuming they will.

How can it be both packed and empty? It's Schrodinger's release schedule. Anyways, as it stands these are the games scheduled for this year but after E3 from what I can tell....

Splatoon 2
Fire Emblem Warriors
Super Mario Odyssey
Xenoblade Chronicles 2

This is the equivalent list for the Wii U in 2013 with games we didn't know about at this stage in bold:
New Super Luigi U
Game & Wario
Pikmin 3
The Wonderful 101
Wind Waker HD
Wii Party U
Wii Fit U
Wii Sports Club
Mario & Sonic at Sochi
Super Mario 3D World

Remove the bold? The lists are fairly similar. Are they all fantastic releases? No. But some where. And there were 7 games we didn't know about at this stage. The Switch only needs 3 or 4 games to hit the number I was talking about previously. I'm not assuming that we will get it but history would say that it's incredibly likely.

Edited on by skywake

Some playlists: Top All Time Songs, Top Last Year
"Don't stir the pot" is a nice way of saying "they're too dumb to reason with"

Therad

skywake wrote:

DefHalan wrote:

@skywake not sure what the graph is supposed to show. It looks wrong. I am also not sure what your point is.

The base of your argument here is that there was a lack of software in the tail end of the Wii U era. A deficit which is yet to be accounted for with Switch content. Your question at its most basic is "where are all the games". So I quantified it and put it into a graph.

The graph looks wrong? Well ok, you can argue that if you want but it's not. What it shows is the number of retail games published by Nintendo per year. The numbers for each platform are stacked ontop of each other. And there are some things we know intuitavely that this graph quantifies.

For example the drop in output of home console games during the transition to HD with the Wii U (down ~3 games/year for 2 years). The explosion of 3DS content in 2013 (~7 games more than usual). The massive slump in content for the Wii U in 2016 (down ~5 games). So using the numbers from that graph I can quantify your question. Where did the resources for Wii U games in 2016 go? More than likely, there are 5 extra games for Switch that will come out in 2017/18. We know of 8 Switch games for 2017 so far. 9-10 would be a typical year. I think we can probably expect 11-12.

DefHalan wrote:

I also don't think we can assume Nintendo will announce more titles to be released this year, their Fall-Holiday release schedule is already packed, more games would probably just step on each others toes. However, I would be excited if Nintendo announces more games for this year. I hope they do, but I am not assuming they will.

How can it be both packed and empty? It's Schrodinger's release schedule. Anyways, as it stands these are the games scheduled for this year but after E3 from what I can tell....

Splatoon 2
Fire Emblem Warriors
Super Mario Odyssey
Xenoblade Chronicles 2

This is the equivalent list for the Wii U in 2013 with games we didn't know about at this stage in bold:
New Super Luigi U
Game & Wario
Pikmin 3
The Wonderful 101
Wind Waker HD
Wii Party U
Wii Fit U
Wii Sports Club
Mario & Sonic at Sochi
Super Mario 3D World

Remove the bold? The lists are fairly similar. Are they all fantastic releases? No. But some where. And there were 7 games we didn't know about at this stage. The Switch only needs 3 or 4 games to hit the number I was talking about previously. I'm not assuming that we will get it but history would say that it's incredibly likely.

I would argue that Splatoon, warriors, odyssey and XC2 all have longer dev times than the unbolded Wii U ones.

Super Mario and splatoon are definitively system sellers, unless they somehow screw them up. We can all argue we want new IPs like wonderful 10, but the reality is that those games are almost never system sellers. The only one in the Wii U list that could be a system seller is 3D World, but we had a severe case of Mario fatigue at that point, and at a first glance it looked like 3d Land with cat costumes.

Edited on by Therad

Therad

StuTwo

DefHalan wrote:

@StuTwo I disagree. Just like Wii Fit (with the board) and Motion Plus games for the Wii counted as Wii games that required an accessory, PSVR is an accessory for the PS4. It isn't a different system, I can't own a PSVR without a PS4 and use it. So I count them as PS4 games.

I wouldn't want to spend a lot of time on it because it's so tangential to the conversation but I'd agree that there's not an absolute cut off for what constitutes an accessory and what constitutes a platform.

PSVR is, however, clearly intended to be a platform. It's clearly a platform for a few reasons. It's not a platform just because adds significant additional capabilities to the core system (as you've noted the Wii Balance board and Wii Motion Plus both did this but neither was a platform) and it's not even a platform just because it adds significant additional processing capabilities (a handful of SNES games like Mario RPG did this but they were clearly not platforms). It's not even a platform just because it's very expensive compared to the base system (there was a massive - and expensive - mech controller set up for the XBox but that was clearly not a platform).

It's a platform because it has all of those attributes at the same time and because Sony very clearly markets it as a platform. They've designed and positioned it as a viable ongoing development ecosystem that's distinct to that of the PS4. PSVR games have a very different presence in the market, different branding and different licensing terms.

So whilst there isn't always a very definite cut off I'd say that PSVR is at least as much of a platform as, say, the Mega CD or the 32X.

On topic though - comparing numbers of games is, as I'd noted yesterday, pointless. The Zelda DLC could be very weighty and take more resources to make than a game like Mario Tennis. It wouldn't be counted as a separate release but it will fulfil a bigger role in selling the console.

StuTwo

Switch Friend Code: SW-6338-4534-2507

Therad

StuTwo wrote:

...because Sony very clearly markets it as a platform...

Ok, let's just stop this right here. Just because a company markets a product as something it has no bearing on reality. Nintendo markets Switch as an "home console". Which is utter nonsense. It is an handheld in all but name, not hybrid, not home console.

PSVR cannot function without a PS4. Some games can run on both. It is the very definition of an add-on, accessory or peripheral. Something that can enhance the original platform, without superseding it. Otherwise you can start calling the balance board for a platform, because it is exactly on the same page in added functionality.

Edited on by Therad

Therad

skywake

Therad wrote:

skywake wrote:

[...]Anyways, as it stands these are the games scheduled for this year but after E3 from what I can tell....

Splatoon 2
Fire Emblem Warriors
Super Mario Odyssey
Xenoblade Chronicles 2

This is the equivalent list for the Wii U in 2013 with games we didn't know about at this stage in bold:
New Super Luigi U
Game & Wario
Pikmin 3
The Wonderful 101
Wind Waker HD
Wii Party U
Wii Fit U
Wii Sports Club
Mario & Sonic at Sochi
Super Mario 3D World

Remove the bold? The lists are fairly similar. Are they all fantastic releases? No. But some where. And there were 7 games we didn't know about at this stage. The Switch only needs 3 or 4 games to hit the number I was talking about previously. I'm not assuming that we will get it but history would say that it's incredibly likely.

I would argue that Splatoon, warriors, odyssey and XC2 all have longer dev times than the unbolded Wii U ones.

Super Mario and splatoon are definitively system sellers, unless they somehow screw them up. We can all argue we want new IPs like wonderful 10, but the reality is that those games are almost never system sellers. The only one in the Wii U list that could be a system seller is 3D World, but we had a severe case of Mario fatigue at that point, and at a first glance it looked like 3d Land with cat costumes.

I'd agree entirely but that wasn't really my point. I was trying to argue that the Wii U list at this stage was less than what we finally got. And because of that precedent there's likely some more for Switch in 2017 we don't know about yet. I'd go as far as saying that the Switch lineup on that list is better in terms of quality and its ability to move units than all the games I listed there for Wii U.

Basically, I wouldn't be too surprised if at E3 we are shown Super Mario Galaxy Collection HD, Switch Sports and Smash Bros for Switch. Or something along those lines in terms of quantity.

Some playlists: Top All Time Songs, Top Last Year
"Don't stir the pot" is a nice way of saying "they're too dumb to reason with"

IntoxicatedDuck

On the topic of a lacking release schedule when you really look at what's been confirmed for 2017 the list isn't actually too bad. Two Sonic titles, Puyo Puyo Tetris and Yooka-Laylee stand out for me from third parties. Plus we also get Splatoon 2, Xenoblade 2 and Mario later this year. And I imagine Nintendo will announce a game or two at E3 for release this year. We know how they like to announce game's fairly close to release after all.

Untitled

List grabbed from Tactics magazine issue 2

IntoxicatedDuck

BigBadJohn

@Therad The Switch is a Hybrid. It's designed to be used in three different modes. If you decide to use it as just a handheld that's your call but it doesn't change what it is.

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Name the movie quote "Toolshed!"

NaviAndMii

Therad wrote:

Nintendo markets Switch as an "home console". Which is utter nonsense. It is an handheld in all but name, not hybrid, not home console.

Damn Nintendo and their false marketing! I've foolishly had my new handheld hooked up to the TV for the past 3 weeks now - thanks for clearing this up, I shall throw my Dock in the bin at the next opportunity...

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FGPackers

@Therad i played 95% of time my Switch while docked. So to me should it be a home console? It's a hybrid...

FGPackers

Nintendo Network ID: FGPackers

BigBadJohn

I probably play 50/50 handheld/home console. I've only used it in tabletop for snipperclips so far.

SW-5512-0541-9236

Name the movie quote "Toolshed!"

Therad

FGPackers wrote:

@Therad i played 95% of time my Switch while docked. So to me should it be a home console? It's a hybrid...

My work computer can be docked, is it an laptop or an hybrid?

Therad

NaviAndMii

Therad wrote:

My work computer can be docked, is it an laptop or an hybrid?

Wikipedia:

"In computing and video gaming, a docking station ... provides a simplified way of "plugging-in" an electronic device such as the tablet-like hybrid video game console, the Nintendo Switch and laptop computer to common peripherals."

Edited on by NaviAndMii

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Therad

NaviAndMii wrote:

Therad wrote:

My work computer can be docked, is it an laptop or an hybrid?

Wikipedia:

"In computing and video gaming, a docking station ... provides a simplified way of "plugging-in" an electronic device such as the tablet-like hybrid video game console, the Nintendo Switch and laptop computer to common peripherals."

Psst, citation needed. Aka, someone has added it without checking it up.

Besides, my comment is about Nintendo marketing it as an home console, and they are the only one.

Therad

StuTwo

Therad wrote:

StuTwo wrote:

...because Sony very clearly markets it as a platform...

Ok, let's just stop this right here. Just because a company markets a product as something it has no bearing on reality.

I'm sorry but it does. A "platform" is largely a marketing construct.

Nintendo markets Switch as an "home console". Which is utter nonsense. It is an handheld in all but name, not hybrid, not home console.

Personally I use mine exclusively as a handheld but it technologically does function as a home console. The marketing construct is that it's both and that sets the expectations of the ecosystem it's looking to establish.

More importantly for Nintendo the Switch is a "platform". It doesn't matter whether the only current physical device you can use to access that platform is a handheld or a hybrid or a home console - the only important thing for Nintendo is that it's the platform for major new Nintendo games going forwards.

PSVR cannot function without a PS4. Some games can run on both. It is the very definition of an add-on, accessory or peripheral. Something that can enhance the original platform, without superseding it. Otherwise you can start calling the balance board for a platform, because it is exactly on the same page in added functionality.

As I noted earlier - the line between a peripheral/add on/accessory isn't clear cut. Was the Mega CD (which required a Mega Drive and had some games that could run on both) an add on or was it a platform? I think that was clearly a platform and I think that PSVR is the same.

The difference with something like the balance board is that the balance board was created for a handful of Wii games. It was never intended to be a viable format or brand in and of itself.

Ultimately it doesn't matter very much though.

StuTwo

Switch Friend Code: SW-6338-4534-2507

Lethal

[quote=Therad]

StuTwo wrote:

Nintendo markets Switch as an "home console". Which is utter nonsense. It is an handheld in all but name, not hybrid, not home console.

I do not think you understand what a home console is. The Switch can remain docked and never be taken anywhere. It can be played on your home TV at all times if that is what you choose. That is a home console. It is a home console with the ability to be mobile.

If I have a car that can also float on water, that does not mean it is a boat. It is still a car that can also float.....

Edited on by Lethal

Switch Friend Code - SW-1147-4867-6886

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