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Topic: Pokemon Sword & Shield

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Yorumi

Heavyarms55 wrote:

I put the word "fan" in quotes like that because, though people say they like Pokemon, they care about the franchise and want to enjoy the games, they are jumping on and condemning a game they haven't even played yet! I don't understand how you can be a fan of something, to like a series and condemn a new entry before even giving it a chance, when you still don't and can't know the full story yet! Even on this specific issue, we don't know how limited the Pokedex will be. It wont have every Pokemon, but unless I missed something, and I don't see how I could have missed news this big, we don't know how many will be in the game.

What you're actually seeing is the straw that broke the camel's back. It's not that this one thing is a world shattering problem, it's the culmination of all the problems the series has. Fan anger has been boiling for a while now and it's finally exploded. The gen 3 remakes got a lot of pushback, people were very angry with sun/moon, Lets go being as lazy as it was didn't help things but people told themselves it was just a spin off and the real pokemon games would be better. Swd/shd showed up as easily the laziest entry in the series by a lot. You can say we haven't played the game but the idea of a trailer is to put your best foot forward. What they showed from the textures to the animations was incredibly lazy. The textures and animations are so bad I legitimately could not tell the male trainer was wearing a hat, I thought it was some grandma hair. And of course they can't even be bothered to copy/paste some models that they already have.

It really doesn't help that Masuda has been doing lilttle more than throwing gasoline on the fire. Everyone who's played pokemon knows the excuse of balance is so laughable as to be insulting to our intelligence. Saying they concerned with delivering higher quality visuals is nothing short of an outright lie.

So take a fanbase that's already upset, pile one more thing on, throw gasoline on the fire and this is what you get.

Yorumi

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DarthNocturnal

I've played Pokemon and I have no idea how anyone would even begin to balance even the viable (i.e. fully evolved/ never evolve) Pokemon. So I'm not sure I find anything “laughable“...

But then I don't seem to have even half the issues I'm “supposed“ to have about this series. I'm not even really bothered by the Dex Split (I mean I'm sure I'll encounter some disappointing omissions, but updates are a thing).

Edited on by DarthNocturnal

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shadow-wolf

Yorumi wrote:

Swd/shd showed up as easily the laziest entry in the series by a lot.

I don’t know about that. Definitely they could do WAY better with the hardware of the Switch. But they seem to have more expansive environments, more detailed character models and character animations, multiplayer adventure in the Wild Area and of course the WILD AREA itself, which is game-changing IMHO and what a lot of us have been asking for for a while now. Considering this is the first game to implement an open world where players can meet other players and you can see Pokémon move around in the overworld (in much more natural ways and far improved from the overworld Pokemon in Let’s Go), I honestly wouldn’t call these games lazy. They are doing a notable number of improvements with the games. The Wild Area in particular is probably the biggest improvement to Pokémon since the transition from 2D to 3D.

Edited on by shadow-wolf

shadow-wolf

-Green-

I just want more Pokémon to be viable in serious battle. If they’re gonna take balance into regard with the trimming down of the dex this Gen. It’d be nice if they did rebalance the Pokémon around.

Basically I want more Pokémon like Vivillion, and less Pokémon Gumshoos. In that Vivillion is a weak Pokémon stat wise, since you can acquire it very early on. Despite that it has unique niches in its move pool and ability that let it stay viable. Pokémon like Gumshoos are just all those Pokémon that Gamefreak makes that are completely bland and underwhelming. They lack the bare minimum of necessary tools to even be a threat.

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Late

I've heard people didn't like OR/AS but I don't even remember why. Or if I've even heard why people didn't like it. I personally like R/S/E the least out of all generations and I found OR/AS to be quite enjoyable. It wasn't anything special but I beat it and even did some post game stuff which is pretty rare for me when it comes to Pokémon.

I understand that people don't like the reasoning Masuda gave for the whole national dex debacle but the development time is still going towards something even if it weren't exactly what he told it was going towards. I've seen people who think it's as easy as pressing one button and then all the Pokémon are in the game. Unfortunately, it doesn't work like that.

I've never had a problem with the battle animations and I understand why they still go with the basic animations they have. Again, it's a lot of work to create new ones. And the engine/framework probably also limits what they can do so they'd have to touch up that code as well. That said, I'd really like a new, more dynamic battle engine. I wouldn't mind better animations as long as they don't affect battle speed. I'd rather have fast animations than good looking animations. Then again, if they add a speed-up button like in Fire Emblem, then that's a win-win.

I would personally like to see some kind of reboot next. Cut all unnecessary stuff and start over. Seriously think through everything. Turn thoughts away from what Pokémon is and instead think of what it could be. Make the player feel like they are Spiderm... I mean, a Pokémon Trainer. Make the world feel alive. Go wild! Not going to happen but it would be fun.

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Yorumi

DarthNocturnal wrote:

I've played Pokemon and I have no idea how anyone would even begin to balance even the viable (i.e. fully evolved/ never evolve) Pokemon. So I'm not sure I find anything “laughable“...

It's laughable because they've never once even tried. There are lots of pokemon that you can't even realistically put 4 useful moves on them. If nothing else they could start there. No one expects perfect balance but when you have hundreds of pokemon that have never once stood a chance and can basically only be used in story because the AI is so easy a magicarp can beat the game maybe they could spend one tiny moment adding a few things to those pokemon?

The real problem though is the BS of it all. If gamefreak doesn't care about balance fine, the games were still fun even when not balanced, but don't turn around and say you care so much about balance.

@shadow-wolf the problem is pokemon doesn't exist in a vacuum. They have billions of dollars and 25 years of game development experience and the best they could do is something that looks like a gamecube game? Lets not forget they have access to Nintendo who has just this gen made BOTW, Mario Odyssey and XC2. Before that they got XC1 on the wii, and of course XCX.

I think to really show the laziness, remember now pokemon is close to if not the number one most valuable IP in all of gaming. I don't particularly care for them that much but consider Respawn Entertainment. Their first game was Titanfall, visually the game looks a heck of a lot better than pokemon. So they managed to found a company and make a visually impressive game, all while the company behind the most valuable IP in gaming can't manage textures that look better than an n64 could output. And yes I know respawn came from the Infinity Ward devs, even going back there CoD was up to system specs when they made it.

That's why gamefreak is said to be lazy. If people with far fewer resources can do far better work than the company with the most valuable IP in gaming, the only possibly explanation is just not even trying.

Yorumi

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Grumblevolcano

@Late If I recall correctly it was mainly that the remakes were based on Ruby and Sapphire rather than the more content heavy Emerald.

I didn't like Diamond particularly and had a Pokemon hiatus after it but I keep hearing that Platinum is a lot better so I'd imagine the Pokemon fanbase would explode if Sinnoh remakes happened and weren't based on Platinum.

Edited on by Grumblevolcano

Grumblevolcano

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Yorumi

Late wrote:

I've seen people who think it's as easy as pressing one button and then all the Pokémon are in the game. Unfortunately, it doesn't work like that.

I've never had a problem with the battle animations and I understand why they still go with the basic animations they have. Again, it's a lot of work to create new ones. And the engine/framework probably also limits what they can do so they'd have to touch up that code as well.

It kind of does work like that, and the engine doesn't limit animations at all. Animations and models are standardized data files. It's much like a text document on your computer. It's not dependent on anything special to run it's just a series of bytes in ascii format that is fed to the cpu. In much the same way a model is just a series of vertex coordinates that are read and fed to the gpu which knows how to display them. Animation data is the same, it's merely telling the gpu how to transform those vertex coordinates at every given frame.

They do not have to make new models and animations just because they moved from 3ds to switch. Models, animation, and game engines are not something shrouded in mystery to everyone. There are people who work with this stuff every day and know how it works. They're not complaining because they don't know what they're talking about, they're complaining because they do know exactly what they're talking about.

Yorumi

Nintendo Network ID: yorumi

StableInvadeel

From what I remember, the most disliked thing in oras was that they didn't include the battle frontier, and instead they did the cruel joke of teasing it, while copy-pasting the kalos battle mansion instead.

Like, literally, I think it even uses the same trainer types and art. None of the ones from Hoenn.

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@Morpheel
One thing i really miss from Alpha Sapphire / Omega Ruby was Character customization.
X / Y was quite good in those Chibi form and character customization.

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StableInvadeel

I can kind of understand why they removed that, since you're meant to be Brendan/May, and they wanted to keep them recognizable.

They could've offered clothing at least, I guess.

Even the battle maison can be kind of explained by them wanting to keep the mode compatible with XY, but it doesn't make it seem any nicer in the eyes of a battle frontier fan.

Edited on by StableInvadeel

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Octane

@Morpheel Are you suggesting they had to make new models for the new Mega Evolutions and the clothing?!?

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Knuckles-Fajita

Heavyarms55 wrote:

Personally for a while I have felt it would make more sense to release a game with NO new Pokemon or only a very small number, like perhaps a regional legendary or two and instead just a crazy mixture of Pokemon from past games.

One could argue they did this with Let's Go ;p

Though more accurately this was XY. 450 strong regional dex.

72 were new.

The problem there was the new was buried heavily by often being the rare encounters per area.

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Arbor

personally, i love gen 5, but that’s definitely because it was my first game. but i wish some people would give them a chance! (i’m not calling anyone out here, nobody specific) like yeah, some of the pokemon are redundant, but switch them up every once in awhile! options are nice, and just because it’s similar to an old pokemon doesn’t mean you can only ever use the old one and the new one sucks.

Arbor

DarthNocturnal

I suddenly want to catch a Sunflora and give it the nickname “Mozambique“.

...except that joke might not be as funny, what with Apex Legends having done some weapon tweaks in season tw- wait why is Titanfall being brought up?

(I wish N64 and Gamecube games looked as good as Sword/ Shield.)

"Sometimes, I just don't understand human behavior" - C-3P0

Yorumi

@DarthNocturnal check out some dolphin screenshots of pokemon XD. Tales of Graces was a wii game which isn't much more powerful than a gamecube. Put side by side the e3 footage of swd/shd I think you'd be amazed what you see.

The tree they show is definitely n64 level, it looks almost identical to the trees in OOT. The overall game is doing more than an n64 is capable of but aspects of it are n64 level.

Yorumi

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DarthNocturnal

@Yorumi

So I actually searched for the tree. I'm gonna be honest... yikes, haha. It doesn't really ruin it for me though. The game's release is still a ways off. Maybe they'll borrow props from BotW by then.

Overall though, visuals seem fine. Even factoring in emulation wizardry on older titles.

"Sometimes, I just don't understand human behavior" - C-3P0

Late

@Grumblevolcano Right. That was it. It would be preferable to have the remakes based on the 3rd version. They didn't do that with previous remakes either and I don't expect the next remakes to be based on Platinum either even though it's quite different from Diamond and Pearl. At least they add some extra stuff like the Delta Episode and Sevii Islands.

@Yorumi I think I worded that poorly. I should have explained in more detail.

I'm not talking about standard animations. I know what models and animations are. I'm talking about the kinds of animations some people seem to want. A Pokémon makes contact with the other Pokémon with their move and the other reacts to it accordingly. Let's say a Mankey runs towards a Poliwag, jumps on it and scratches it. Doesn't sound all that special? Well, what if the opposing Pokémon were an Ursaring instead? The Mankey can't jump on it the same way. It would need to take the opponent's height into account and possibly some other stuff too to not make it look too awkward. Maybe a bad example since Mankey doesn't have to jump to scratch an opponent but I believe that's how it attacked in the anime.

Currently they have it like this: idle animation plays -> chooses attack -> attack animation plays -> defending Pokémon's damage taking animation plays. Most of these animations don't care about things like positioning. Though I think there are some exceptions. Something like a Hyper Beam hitting a different part of Pokémon. That needs some calculation. Or maybe they have a predetermined spot on each Pokémon? I don't know. But that's more of the kind of stuff I'm talking about.

I haven't played Pokémon for a while so I don't remember if the Pokémon have more than one "getting hurt animation" but even if they do have multiple, who knows how that thing is programmed. Is it easily expandable or hardcoded integer value that says a Pokémon can have only so many animations. This extends to stuff like spawning particles and other visual effects.

Who knows how much work this would actually amount to but it's something that would have to be done regardless. I think they'll just use what they have for now and make a more customizable animation framework later once they overhaul the whole battle system. At least I hope they'll do it at some point.

@Morpheel The only Battle Frontier I bothered with was in Platinum so it's not a huge surprise I forgot about that thing as well. I don't think I ever visited the Battle Maison in OR/AS.

Edited on by Late

I programmed a simple tool that copies all Switch screenshots from an SD card and places them to folders according to the game:
Link

Switch Friend Code: SW-8287-7444-2602 | Nintendo Network ID: LateXD

Yorumi

@DarthNocturnal I actually don't have a problem with the visuals on their own. I'm actually fine with graphics that aren't system busting. It's just when someone comes along as acts like they're doing some herculean effort here to make a visual masterpiece and what we have is swd/shd. I'm going to laugh at them.

@Late True that would take a lot more effort. That largely goes back to gamefreak's statements though. One excuse they gave for cutting pokemon was to do higher quality animations, which people are pretty much laughing at and saying if you're going to cut pokemon for animations then you actually need to deliver the animations. The animations in stadium are better than what swd/shd are delivering. Much like my above comments I don't have a problem with that on it's own, it becomes a problem in the light of gamefreak's bs excuses.

Yorumi

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