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Topic: It's Time for Golden Sun on Nintendo Switch

Posts 61 to 80 of 80

Snaplocket

Buizel wrote:

Sadly I think, with the Switch, we're less likely than ever to get a Golden Sun sequel. With the power of the system, expectations (and budget) would be high, and it may be too risky a move for Nintendo.

That said, I do hope we get a 1+2 (and possibly 3) collection on the Switch to please the existing fans. And if that does reasonably well? Maybe a sequel is a possibility.

Budget really isn't a problem for Nintendo. Even when the games are massive (Mario Odyssey, Fire Emblem Three Houses), they still stick to very tight budgets. Nintendo aren't the only ones either, other companies like NIS, Nihon Falcom and Platinum Games are able to make really good games for consoles on budgets way lower then any mainstream games. It speaks volumes that the most expensive game Nintendo every made (BOTW) still needed no more then 2 million to make a profit in stark contrast to most AAA games which regularly need way more then that.

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Harmonie

Felix69 wrote:

kingdom hearts 1 and 2 got an HD remake. why can't GS 1 and 2?

I'm afraid you're comparing apples and oranges here.

Kingdom Hearts as a series is in an entirely different place. While there was a significant gap in time between KHII and III, the series never went inactive, as the "inbetween" games were numerous. The series has become a lasting sensation.

I also don't think it's as easy to get away with remastering a GBA game... I think the games would most definitely have to be remade (at least like Link's Awakening), which would then end up being a ton more work than what went into the KH ones, which were mere remasters, not remakes.

Harmonie

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komodo182

We definitively need more turn based rpgs on the switch.

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Majora101

I don't think Golden Sun 1 and 2 are in any particularly dire need of a major graphical revamp, certainly not as much as a game like Link's Awakening was. Golden Sun is more on par visually and technically with Donkey Kong Country on the SNES than a monochrome original Gameboy Zelda game (it was originally targeted for the Nintendo 64, hence the "3D" visuals — 3D models were rendered at low resolutions Rareware-style to create the sprites and certain overworld textures). Games like these scale particularly well. It would look passable at a higher resolution with higher res textures and an HD lighting system, but Nintendo aim far higher and could likely produce far more technically-impressive results without the need for a huge budget. They would do it right, no doubt about it.

Edited on by Majora101

Majora101

Dezzy

I think Xenoblade has filled the JRPG niche in Nintendo's mind. They probably don't feel the need for another. They already have Pokemon too.

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komodo182

@Dezzy Can't say those fill the niche for me.

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Grumblevolcano

The 2 GBA games would likely be free NSO games whenever GBA is introduced to the service which I guess would be September 2020. Between 3rd party collections (Mega Man and Castlevania makes up around a quarter of the GBA games on Wii U) and Game Freak likely blocking the main series Gen 3 games (Ruby, Sapphire, Emerald, Fire Red, Leaf Green) there isn't many GBA games that would be obtainable so the 2 Golden Sun games would likely be day 1 releases.

Edited on by Grumblevolcano

Grumblevolcano

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link3710

@Grumblevolcano Eh? I mean it's certainly likely, but I don't think there's as few GBA games as you make it sound. Looking through the titles, they have 32 others to release in NA/PAL, 40 in Japan, without even considering third party stuff that's still possible like the original Chain of Memories, Sonic Advance 1-3, or Tales of Phantasia. Given they'll probably only launch with 20, both of the Golden Sun's being in at launch seems unlikely, I'd guess they'll release the original first, and the sequel in the next batch.

link3710

Tbuster766

@shaneoh A million dollar sales isn't everything, or else series like Bayonetta, Fire emblem pre awakening, earthbound, etc would have no leg to stand on. And even then the first game broke around 1.6 million or so and the second game broke 1.1 million. Dark dawn may have been the serie's lowest point, but Camelot still profited nonetheless and to pull said numbers that it did on a dying ds system is actually pretty impressive.

Tbuster766

Majora101

I have to agree with the spirit of @Tbuster766's points. Golden Sun is often mis-characterized by armchair analysts as a sales dud due to its cult following status, further emboldened by the one unsuccessful series entry in Dark Dawn, which released in the eleventh hour of the Nintendo DS lifespan (Dark Dawn released on the DS on October 28th, 2010; the Nintendo 3DS released on February 26th, 2011). Contrary to its reputation as a cult series, 2001 and 2002's Golden Sun: The Broken Seal and Golden Sun: The Lost Age outsold equivalent video game series on the same system during the same period by notable margins.

For example, Fire Emblem: The Blazing Blade and Fire Emblem: The Sacred Stones, comparable RPGs on the same system which sold in both North America and Japan, were praised by Nintendo as being among their "successful" Game Boy Advance titles, with 265,286 and 246,719 units sold respectively between March 21, 2001 and December 30, 2007. By contrast, Golden Sun 1 and 2 sold 338,097 and 249,684 respectively during the same period, clearly outclassing these comparable Fire Emblem entries in sales. Generously excluding Dark Dawn's sales, the two Golden Sun entries would eventually sell 1,650,000 and 1,120,000 units by December 2014, outclassing the lifetime sales of Kid Icarus 1 (a far more dormant series which was eventually revived by Nintendo after a far longer hiatus than that of Golden Sun) by 1,010,000 units (vgchartz).

Further contradicting any notions of lackluster industry repute are Golden Sun's numerous accolades, which include the 2001 Nintendo Power Award for Game Boy Advance game of the year, rank #94 on IGN's 2006 Reader's Choice Top 100 Games Ever, IGN Game Of The Month 2003, and many others. Golden Sun 1 alone holds a rounded Metacritic and GameRankings score of 91 and 89 respectively, ranking it higher than Overwatch (PS4), Castlevania: Circle of the Moon (GBA), and Assassin's Creed II (X360). In terms of both sales and reception, Golden Sun is a commercial and critical success with critics and fans alike (who routinely vote Isaac to the top of most online Smash Bros. fighter polls). Golden Sun is not worthy of the poor sales reputation often ascribed to dormant series like these and consequentially cannot be written off like other series.

As an aside, of particular note are industry analysts' thoughts on the then somewhat niche Japan-only release Fire Emblem: The Blinding Blade. It is rightly believed by some that the title would have sold far more had Nintendo brought it to the Americas and devoted more resources towards marketing it. Something similar can be said for Golden Sun. When it has the odds in its favor, releases at any time other than the tail-end of a console's lifespan, and isn't a dramatic series deviation with in-game points-of-no-return like Dark Dawn, Golden Sun performs very well.

The only thing standing in the way of a future title is Camelot Software Planning's development schedule. They have the fortunate problem of being the developer of great original RPGs as well as the ever-popular Mario sports titles, the latter of which has locked up their development resources for the better part of two decades. Nintendo, please clear them up for the rest of the Switch's life cycle and let them produce a great high definition Golden Sun title for the home console you can take with you.

Sources:
Japanese sales March 21, 2001 and December 30, 2007: https://web.archive.org/web/20081230005318/http://www.japan-g...
Metacritic - Game Releases by Score (All Time, All Platforms): https://www.metacritic.com/browse/games/score/metascore/all/a...

Edited on by Majora101

Majora101

Snaplocket

@Dezzy This is probably the biggest thing preventing a new Golden Sun. Nintendo already has Fire Emblem, Xenoblade and Pokemon. They just don't see the point in having Camelot developing a new Golden Sun instead of Mario Sports games when they already have 3 JRPG franchises.

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Majora101

@Snaplocket I don't think Nintendo makes greenlight decisions based on how many games of a genre potential new games happen to fall under. If Nintendo thought they had too many sports series between Mario Golf, Mario Tennis, Wii Sports, Mario Strikers Charged, Mario & Sonic Olympic Games, and many others, they wouldn't have released Mario Tennis Aces and Fitness Boxing (a new IP) back-to-back in the span of one year. Similarly, if they thought they had too many 3D adventure series using IPs they owned or partially owned in the early 2000s with games like Zelda, Banjo Kazooie, Mario, Metroid Prime, Pikmin, Donkey Kong, and dozens of others, they wouldn't have suggested Rare Ltd. re-work their original 3D adventure IP Dinosaur Planet into Starfox Adventures, creating yet another 3D adventure title featuring a Nintendo IP.

I wouldn't classify Pokemon as a JRPG, as Pokemon is its own completely unique entity that is very different from standard JRPGs. I also wouldn't necessarily call Golden Sun a straight JRPG, though it is at heart a very well polished JRPG. It does certain things differently, such as the use of Djinn, Zelda-like puzzle solving, and how it utilizes a quasi-open world approach in The Lost Age, that differentiate it somewhat from comparable JRPGs which traditionally are a bit more linear.

Edited on by Majora101

Majora101

kkslider5552000

You can make the case for Pokemon I guess, but I'd argue Golden Sun is one of the most traditional JRPGs Nintendo's ever made. Mario RPGs always relied heavily on the Mario name and at times gameplay (lots of jumping for a JRPG) and it own unique combat system, Xenoblade has pseudo-MMO combat and heavy focus on open areas/world (and X in particular really went against a lot of what people expect from the genre), Fire Emblem is a strategy RPG etc.

Meanwhile, Golden Sun is a turn based RPG with no dramatically crazy gimmicks, with traditional leveling with traditional stats, where you travel a traditional overworld to go to traditional towns to buy traditional items etc. Like even most of what makes it supposedly "different" I've seen in at least one normal, well regarded, popular JRPG from the 90s. Like the puzzle element is probably the biggest difference, even most of the best JRPGs have ok puzzles at best, so Golden Sun's excellent use of abilities for puzzles are pretty cool.

But in general, innovation is not why I liked Golden Sun. It just had enough new ideas to stand out as a turn based RPG, while also being...two of the best turn based RPGs.

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Harmonie

I don't even get where we're getting the idea that Fire Emblem can be compared to the gameplay of Golden Sun. Granted, I've only really played Awakening from that series, but it was completely different from Golden Sun. Golden Sun games are adventure RPGs whereas Fire Emblem games are strategy. They're two completely different types of game.

Harmonie

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Majora101

@kkslider5552000 Right. The puzzle design rivals many 2D Zelda titles, in my opinion. Puzzles being so much more prevalent in Golden Sun than comparable JRPG titles does make it more distinct from other series, in my mind. Its unique Djinn system separates it from comparable class changing methods in other titles as well given the Pokemon-like way you find, battle, and collect them. To its credit, Dark Dawn expanded on the Djinn system by offering unique 3D model designs for each individual Djinn, bringing it a tick closer to a highly Nintendo-esque Pokemon-like RPG rather than a traditional Japanese RPG with the usual serious tone and save-the-world tropes (though Golden Sun does have many of these tropes as well. It strikes such a great balance between a variety of Nintendo properties and classic JRPGs that it's almost a disservice to classify it exclusively as either).

@Harmonie I bring up Fire Emblem as it is a comparable example of a particularly Japanese strategy/adventure RPG series published by Nintendo that began gaining steam in the west at the same time and on the same systems as Golden Sun and posted comparable sales numbers; calling them apples and oranges based on what genres they technically belong to is a matter of semantics. They are both Japanese adventure RPGs that sold on the same systems and posted sales within ~100,000 units of each other in the same sales period; they each made their western debut at roughly the same time; they both regularly feature in Smash Bros. in some form, etc. No gameplay is being compared in the above sales analysis.

Edited on by Majora101

Majora101

Snaplocket

A game doesn't have to be innovative to be good. For instance, Dragon Quest XI and Cold Steel III are both JRPGs where just about every "innovation" was taken from other games and yet they're easily two of the best JRPGs I've played this generation.

Edited on by Snaplocket

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Majora101

This is true. The Legend Of Zelda: Twilight Princess isn't particularly notable for having made any major changes to the Zelda formula outside of the Wolf Link gameplay, but that is a classic Zelda game with a strong cast and a great semi-realistic art style that suspends disbelief just enough to still look good with age. A game doesn't have to reinvent the wheel to be a classic.

Majora101

Snaplocket

The thing is, Golden Sun has never made a huge splash in the first place. Sure, they sold well but they've never had as much impact as Xenoblade, Pokemon or Fire Emblem. Nintendo probably thinks those games are enough to satisfy RPG fans and people pining for a new Golden Sun are few and far between. I mean look at Smash Ultimate. Incineroar got in when there are already plenty of Pokemon reps, while Issac was relegated to assist trophy after being completely absent in 4.

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Grumblevolcano

Xenoblade and Fire Emblem didn't have much impact outside Japan until those franchises got playable fighters in Smash (Shulk for Xenoblade, Marth and Roy for Fire Emblem). The Smash effect works both ways, it can increase the popularity of obscure franchises as well as putting characters from huge franchises in Smash can increase Smash's popularity further.

Grumblevolcano

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Majora101

Grumblevolcano is correct, Smash has a major effect on the popularity of lesser known franchises. Many to most new Brawl players probably hadn't even heard of Kid Icarus until Pit became a fighter. I'm not sure how "impact" could be measured in anything but abstract terms (I think Pokemon is the only IP in that list that could be said to have had a major cultural impact, if that is what you meant). Sales are more interesting to look at, especially in relation to Fire Emblem, because Golden Sun outsold Fire Emblem out of the gate when selling internationally for the first time. Despite Golden Sun being picked up by more players, it was Fire Emblem that received more game entries and a Smash Bros. rep early on, with 99% of Melee players likely not knowing who characters like Marth or Roy even were, and as a result (in addition to being great strategy games) Fire Emblem is now a popular Nintendo staple today with regular releases, such is the Smash effect.

I would continue to argue that Pokemon is an entirely different beast from any other series, as it gets a new Smash Bros. rep with every entry. That may change with future Smash entries though, if Sakurai's comments on not being able to top the sheer size of Ultimate's roster are anything to go by. They may just start fresh with new entries, keeping a handful of mainstay fighters while implementing an entirely new roster. Then again, Sakurai blows steam in interviews with every Smash release, and they may very well out-do Ultimate with a future release regardless of what Sakurai says.

What is certain is an eventual inclusion of Isaac as a fighter; they are very aware of the demand for Golden Sun. Ultimate is currently the most Golden Sun heavy Smash Bros. game, with Isaac returning as an Assist Trophy for the first time since Brawl (I consider Brawl's successor Smash 4 a bit of a series misstep for many non Golden Sun-related reasons). Spirits for Isaac and adult Isaac, Garet, Jenna, Isaac and Jenna's son Matthew, Ivan, Mia, and Felix, as well as Mii outfits and headgear based on Isaac. I imagine Ultimate was almost "the one" for Isaac, but developing fresh characters had to be limited to a degree due to the massive size of the roster (plus the fact Nintendo is in control of the DLC, hence the focus on third-party characters like Joker and Banjo [feels awful to call Banjo "third party"] or more obscure fighters like Terry). Isaac is definitely waiting in the wings for a future Smash title.

Edited on by Majora101

Majora101

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