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Topic: Am I the only one who's really missin' 1:1 swordplay in Breath of the Wild?

Posts 21 to 40 of 85

Turbo857

@FGPackers

I agree somewhat. I'm not saying there is no strategic combat in Breath of the Wild. The whole weapon/shield durability system adds a strategic element all by itself.

1:1 swordplay tacked on with the way the enemies AI as it is in Breath of the Wild wouldn't do anything (AI would have to be programmed around the 1:1 mechanic). But in a future open world Breath of the Wild sequel, I think 1:1/directional right analog swordplay would evolve the combat.

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Octane

@Turbo857 There's no disagreeing. Battle Quest was designed to allow 1:1 controls, Skyward Sword wasn't, and it can't be as you long as you have proportionate characters that need to animate as well. There was no animation in Battle Quest, it was just a floating sword. That's the difference.

Octane

Turbo857

@NEStalgia

Too each their own. And I have several problems with your assessment.

"So our swings are rapid fly swatter swings, which would be absurd in a video game."

We've had this in SS and Zelda: Battle Quest (and to some degree Twilight Princess), and I wouldn't say this is absurd as many people did in fact enjoy these controls. I personally (and I'm sure many gamers) wouldn't want the wii remote or joy-con to be any heavier just for the purpose of replicating weapon-weight realism so I don't think this is even an issue.

Also, I'd never compare SS's motion controls to QTEs. In QTEs, you are mainly pressing "buttons" at on screen prompts, not executing physical movements to attack an enemy's when their guard has dropped.

Personally, I never tired playing SS, and we're talking 2-4 hour sessions. And I never played standing up. I laid back on my couch with my elbows rested on my lap... just like I do with regular control pads.. So, I don't think the problem with SS's 1:1 was that it wasn't true 1:1... I think the problem (similar to Star Fox Zero) is with how people played the game.

It sounds a bit like you didn't play SS (or many motion controlled games) as comfortably as you were able to.

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Turbo857

@Nintendoforlife

Yeah, but Botw already allows for motion controlled bow aiming. Would've been nice throw in a recalibration button but it's already there and it'd be nice to not limit them to only long range weapons, imo.

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Turbo857

@Octane

We'll just have agree to disagree. Your argument is a "maybe" but it completely discounts the fact Zelda Battle Quest was made on a more powerful system..... after devz got more used to the motion tech.

I'm pretty sure Nintendo can animate Link to swing a one-handed sword strike that registers as quick as a a gamer's swing on a system as powerful as the Nintendo Switch. And if not, I'm confident they can get pretty darn close.

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blaisedinsd

Skyward Sword had better combat, boss battles, story, and dungeons.

Breath of the Wild is really a whole new type of game with a Zelda theme. It is technically a more advanced type of game design but it's all about exploration. The combat was decent but Skyward Sword is the pinnacle of Zelda combat.

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LzWinky

FGPackers wrote:

Fact that there is no more 1:1 doesn't mean it is not strategical gameplay. It's a different type of strategy (just think about lynels). By the way even though i like really a lot SS gameplay i don't miss it in BOTW. I don't think this console concept would have been that great for SS gameplay style. I just like this way too

Oh I agree there's strategy. I will strategize where my Wii remote will fly to if Link horizontal slices when I did an upward movement again

Edited on by LzWinky

Current games: Everything on Switch

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LzWinky

blaisedinsd wrote:

Skyward Sword had better combat, boss battles, story, and dungeons.

Skyward Sword only really had 1 memorable boss. And the story? Eh...debatable. Dungeons are definitely better, although I like the beasts' theme.

Current games: Everything on Switch

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Monkey_Balls

I never had a problem with Skyward Sword's controls; they seemed pretty fluid to me. However, I'm not sure they would work in BotW due to the size of the game. Motion controls weren't a chore in SS but I think they would be in BotW (those motion-controlled Shrine puzzles are bad enough) - the current on-the-fly combat mechanics seem to be the best fit. Maybe if BotW had a smaller, more compact world? But even then, I'm not sure folk would have liked BotW (or the Switch) so much if motion controls were the only option.

Tsurii wrote:

and now the obvious reason why it wouldn't work. The Wii U doesn't come with Wii remotes

... but it is compatible with them.

Monkey_Balls

Nintendo Network ID: widdowk

Turbo857

@TheLZdragon

What?!? Ya gotta be kidding me? Skyward Sword had just ONE memorable boss fight? Dude you didn't play this game. Maybe you did with your eyes closed or somethin', I dunno. Demise, Ghirahim (all battles) Imprisoned (all battles), Koloktos, Scaldera, Moldarach and even the minibosses fights (Stalmaster, Stalfos, Lizafos) were memorable. Definitely a step above Botw in this department. But Lynels, Talos, Hinox do a good job.

Story's debatable but I'd still give Skyward Sword the nod in this department. But I do dig Botw's story and perspective with how it was told.

Edited on by Turbo857

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Turbo857

@blaisedinsd

Couldn't have said it better myself! I think Botw + Skyward Sword = Next evolution of Zelda

@Monkey_Balls

I don't think the size of Botw would be a problem for motion control swordplay mechanics. I've heard this doubt mentioned a few times before but I don't see how it applies. When I mention 1:1 sword controls in a Zelda the size of Breath of the Wild, I don't think motion controls should be applied for everything. We don't need it for horse riding (just sword swinging on top of a horse), swimming, gliding, picking up objects etc. Just aiming, sword/shield mechanics, and bomb rolling. Personally, I didn't really like the motion control mechanics in some of the shrines. A recalibration button would've been appreciated.

But remember, we had motion controlled sword/shield mechanics in Twilight Princess and that game's world isn't small. SS is a 40+ hour adventure so we've already played with motion controls at length in this series already.

I agree that if 1:1 motion was the "only" option, it'd probably turn some people off. Some people just don't want to move a controller. However, I think some directional strikes with the right analog would serve the non-motion control crowd well in this case.

Edited on by Turbo857

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LzWinky

Twilight princess hardly applies since a simple swing is the same as pushing a button.

Skyward sword is too polarizing to be the future of Zelda. I doubt 1:1 swordplay will come back. It didn't with BotW.

Current games: Everything on Switch

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Octane

TheLZdragon wrote:

Skyward Sword only really had 1 memorable boss. And the story? Eh...debatable. Dungeons are definitely better, although I like the beasts' theme.

Koloktos? Cause that's only boss I can remember apart from the Ghirahim and evil hippo fights.

Octane

LzWinky

Yup, Koloktos. Ghirahim was really memorable for being a battle of precise swinging, which I've already beaten to death.

Current games: Everything on Switch

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Turbo857

@TheLZdragon

Ya never know. Maybe it never will, maybe it's around the corner. But frankly, as button masher: Are you turned off by the notion of playing a Zelda game where sword strikes would be mapped to the right analog?

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Octane

@Turbo857 What's the point though? There are other ways to make combat more engaging without turning it into a chore.

Octane

Turbo857

@Octane

"What's the point though?" = To make combat more stimulating. Very simple: Think Zelda 2 versus Zelda 1 combat. Not the games themselves just the combat.

In Zelda 1 you move to an enemy and press A to stab. Very basic. Zelda 2, since it was side scrolling, Link had more combat options. He could strike high or low, and above or below him but it made battles more stimulating than the first game. Some enemie, were able to hit high or low (and even block high or low) so you had to observe them and attack at the right time with the right strike. I just happen to be in the camp that believes expanded combat options = more stimulating combat.

"There are other ways to make combat more engaging without turning it into a chore."

1) How would using the right analog for sword strikes be a chore (you're still essentially "pressing a button" and 2) how would you make combat more engaging then what I'm proposing? I'm actually really curious.

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Octane

@Turbo857 You're the one suggesting pressing the B-button and moving the right analog stick at the same time. I say that's a terrible and convoluted control scheme.

Simple, get back to WW / TP style of combat. Bring rolling back, the diversity of moves from TP and the fluidity from WW. That's all I want. Combat isn't Zelda's strong suit anyway, so it doesn't need to become overly complex.

Octane

Turbo857

Lmao!! That's hilarious! You can check any of my posts on this forum and you will not find one instance of where I mentioned the "B" button should be used in conjunction with the right analog for sword swings. I agree, that would be a pretty stupid, terrible control scheme.

I'm talking about just using the right analog for sword swings, that's it. You'd push it in to take out your sword, push it in again to put it back. While your sword's out, you push the right analog up or down to swing vertically in those directions. Push the analog right or left for horizontal strikes, diagonal for diagonal strikes. Hold the analog up to power up a sword blast. Press any direction afterward to release it. Simple.

I'll level with you on Twilight Princess's combat. WW was a bit too automated which required special moves to be activated at only certain moments. Twilight Princess had the same moves (and a few more) but were manually executed which I preferred. Twilight Princess is the best we're gonna get with button mashing though. And as great as Twilight Princess is, its combat just wasn't as stimulating as SS's imo. And I further agree that combat isn't Zelda's strong suit as a whole. Even when gamers speak highly of Skyrim (I loved it too), popular criticism is thrown.... at its combat.

All the more reason why Zelda's combat could be further improved by infusing it with this more dynamic combat system.

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Monkey_Balls

Turbo857 wrote:

I don't think the size of Botw would be a problem for motion control swordplay mechanics. I've heard this doubt mentioned a few times before but I don't see how it applies.

@Turbo857 When I mentioned the size of BotW I probably should have elaborated (specifically regarding the freedom available to the player). Twilight Princess and (particularly) Skyward Sword are far more dense and almost level-based in comparison to BotW - they have distinct sections or set-pieces which mostly funnel the player a certain way. Enemy placement - particularly in Skyward Sword - is more specific and (as you've previously mentioned) a lot of SS's battles are like mini-games (waiting for prompts and openings). I don't think a similar fighting mechanic would fit with BotW's go-anywhere-tackle-anything gameplay.

With Breath, the combat is fast and fluid: you can paraglide in, fire some arrows, throw some bombs, perform a flurry rush or two, Revali's Gale out, land on your horse and be gone. With SS's mechanics you'd either have all those Bokoblins and Lizalfos running over then lining up, waiting to play the motion-control dance, or they wouldn't move from their spots, waiting for Link to face them. Either way could be a chore and slow the combat considerably. The intensity and (more importantly) freedom could be lost.

With TP and SS, progression was easy to see. With BotW's go-anywhere gameplay, areas and progression are less defined, arguably requiring faster and more fluid mechanics to prevent boredom. The world is vast and I sometimes get irritated when enemies show up while I'm exploring (the Stal enemies and Yiga are particularly annoying) - waiting for prompts/openings on the majority of foes would quickly kill my interest. The button-mashing would just be replaced with a waggle-fest; I know which I prefer.

Talking of button-mashing... thinking about it, BotW's combat system isn't much different to previous Zelda games. The flurry rush pretty much replaces the rolling-dodge, and Z/L-targeting is still there. It's a tried and tested system which works, and when combined with the Runes (Stasis, Magnesis, etc) is diverse enough to not be too shallow or lacking. Sure, on occasion I feel like I'm button-mashing but maybe that's my own fault when the game offers up so many other ways to defeat an enemy?

I guess if we had 1:1 sword controls combined with BotW's fluidity (rather than SS's 1v1 dances), that could possibly work; it could provide a new level of strategy and be quite fun. Maybe for the next Zelda game though... Something more compact - a middle ground between SS and BotW. But SS's slower, strategic combat system in BotW's world? I think I would find that a chore after a while; there are too many enemies and the map is too large for a complex combat system.

Turbo857 wrote:

I'm talking about just using the right analog for sword swings, that's it. You'd push it in to take out your sword, push it in again to put it back. While your sword's out, you push the right analog up or down to swing vertically in those directions. Push the analog right or left for horizontal strikes, diagonal for diagonal strikes. Hold the analog up to power up a sword blast. Press any direction afterward to release it. Simple.

Hm, I'm not sure I would like that setup; I'd prefer motion controls to analogue input for a sword. Interesting topic though, and now I want to play Skyward Sword again...

Monkey_Balls

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