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Topic: Ace Mathician

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rayword45

1. Posted:

So, since it's coming out in less then 24 hours, I'm awaiting this.

Honestly, I might not insta-buy it, only because the math part isn't my kind of thing. However, unlike some critics, I loved the 2 Flipper games, so if this features substantial content, I may as well support the developers.

Also, I still await the Flipper 2 level sharing.

Your thoughts? And when it arrives your impressions?

Edited on by rayword45

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HugoSmits

2. Posted:

hey Rayword,

the game is only 200 points and got more levels/worlds than Flipper 1 does :)

Sorry about the level sharing, I'm not sure the publisher will release that service since not too many
people bought Flipper 2 and you are actually the first person to ask about it :(

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Odnetnin

3. Posted:

I must admit, I forgot about Flipper 2 level sharing. If it's not coming, it would still be interesting to know how it would've worked, since I recall you saying you had a secret, non-QR code method.

I should be reviewing Ace Mathician soon, and as a fan of the Flipper games I'm very excited about it.

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WesFX

4. Posted:

Brilliant concept, and brilliantly implemented.

But short, for an experienced player at least. It's $2, and I'd say you shouldn't pass it by, but it seems tragically short.

WesFX

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Odnetnin

5. Posted:

WesFX wrote:

Brilliant concept, and brilliantly implemented.

Glad to hear it. Hugo's stuff is never anything short of brilliant.

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BulbasaurusRex

6. Posted:

As someone who achieved a perfect score on the math section of the ACT and has taken and passed such college courses as Calculus 1 through 3, Differential Equations, Discrete Structures, and Real Analysis, I'm curious about this one. Exactly what kind of game is it?

Ash: Professor Oak, how's your Bulbasaur?
Prof. Oak: Oh, it only hurts when I sit.
...
Prof. Oak: It's only Chansey if Krabby won't let go. Bye, now.
Ash: I don't think I'm going to call him anymore.

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HugoSmits

7. Posted:

@WesFX did you complete all worlds (including the star world?) ? and how long did it take you ?
I aimed at around 1,5 hour. That's about the same as Flipper 1, but for 200 points instead of 500 points :)

@BulbasaurusRex

It's a fun little game that let's you move platforms with math formula's. So you're basically calculating the x and y position of
platforms. However, it isn't super hard on the math part. I want everybody to enjoy it.. and not get stuck!

So the fun is more in just playing around with the math, rather than solving really challenging math.

HugoSmits

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brandonbwii

8. Posted:

@wesFX
Short length seems to be a common problem for GoodbyeGalaxyGames titles. There is also an overall lack of polish. The most irksome of which was Flipper 2's animation and audio issues. They never truly "synced", which was pretty bad for a game that focused on Tex Avery style antics. The length, too, was problematic because by the time I got my mind around the tech flaws and started having any real fun the Story Mode was over.

I noticed that when a developer post in these forums, everyone gets nice, nice, and don't rant or say anything bad. It's like all of a sudden they're such great developers because they post on the site regularly. I'm not beating about the bush though. Goodbye's previous two games had some serious, serious flaws.

Don't worry Hugo, I ain't hatin' (too much), I'm mostly just stating an observation of the fanbase and trying to give you a bit of constructive criticism while I'm at it. Maybe more time and a slightly bigger team is what you need. I don't know I'm not a developer. I plan to get Ace Mathician at a later date as I'm always a fan of quirky concepts (sounds like math based Scribblenauts). I just hope you're able to bring the audio/visual/animation/length polish in future titles.

Edited on by brandonbwii

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HugoSmits

9. Posted:

I partly agree with you. I have a different vision on length. There seems to be a gap between fun and length that is hard to close. I rather have a sort game where everything you do is fun, instead of a long boring game.

For example; take a look at Zelda Four Swords. The first half of the game was really awesome but then they try to make the game feel longer by letting you collect stupid stuff.. I mean, I did collect 300 rupees in all castles.. but after that I had to collect 5000 rupees!

To get to the 5000 rupees you have the camp out and wait for enemies to re spawn.. it's really tedious work, is that something you like to do with your free time ?

Also, my games get compared a lot with bigger studios like Way Forward. But please keep in mind I'm just a guy in a little dark room with a bag of cheetos and some cold left over pizza!

I mean, they develop eshop/DSiware stuff as a side project for fun. Their main business seems to be big retail games.

I don't know if I ever told this; but all my games have a game design document for a retail version. With much, MUCH more content than I'm able to show in the Dsi-Ware versions.

Nobody wants to publish them.. nobody wants to take the risk on new original games. It doesn't matter that both Flipper 1 & 2 where top 10 selling games in the DsiWare store...

In the meanwhile I get requests to port bejeweled clones to the Nintendo DS by the dozenth... go figure!

Polish is the same story; If could just have a few more months to work on a game... but I just can't because than I'm not able to pay rent :(

And also; I think people maybe want a bit too much sometimes. I mean, people complained that Flipper 1 was short. So I gave Ace an extra world at half the price of Flipper 1. But now they still seem to think it's short :P

and about Flipper 2; the story mode is a tutorial, the real meat is in the random castle mode (300+ rooms). So I don't really agree it's short :)

What I wish for is that Nintendo would care a bit more about us. What I think they should do is take 1 million dollar and give it to indie developers. They could organize a competition where people like me could submit their game design document and the best games get funded :)

Then it's possible for people like me to spend a bit more time on polish and stuff.

I mean, most indie games cost probably around 20.000 dollar to make. So that's 50 original awesome eshop titles per year!

Edited on by HugoSmits

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iroxursox

10. Posted:

man this game was worth ever penny and it's pretty darn fun to keep up the good work Hugo

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Odnetnin

11. Posted:

@brandonbwii I don't know about you, but I honestly love the Flipper games. Maybe more than most people, but I know that TBD's with me on that. I did tell Hugo that I felt that Flipper 2 was really short when it came out--we disagreed about that--but since my only criticism about the game is the game is that I wish there were more of it, I think Hugo's done a good job.

I've never once said that the Flipper games were perfect, or not without multiple flaws, but that doesn't mean I don't enjoy then just the same.

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WesFX

12. Posted:

HugoSmits wrote:

@WesFX did you complete all worlds (including the star world?) ? and how long did it take you ?
I aimed at around 1,5 hour. That's about the same as Flipper 1, but for 200 points instead of 500 points :)

[/div]

Just unlocked (but still haven't played) the Star World and my play-time is 1 hour 15 minutes.
Just checked my Flipper 2 play-time; it happens to be exactly 1 1/2 hours. Very interested by what you said about random mode being the intended "meat" of the game, I'll have to move that one back to my menu screen.
I skipped the DSi, quite sure the successor (now known as the 3DS) would have access to the DSiWare shop, so I haven't picked up Flipper 1 just yet.

On that subject, if I bought Flipper now, would the money go to your publisher, or you?

HugoSmits wrote:

I have a different vision on length. There seems to be a gap between fun and length that is hard to close. I rather have a sort game where everything you do is fun, instead of a long boring game.

[/div]

I totally agree that one is better than the other, but as someone who enjoys the experiences you offer, I'm left wanting more regardless of price. But I'm guessing these concepts won't be revisited, so just the thought that I don't have more to play is the "tragedy" of the situation I referred to.

And for another reason, review scores can dictate sales, which is a very unfortunate thing in this industry. Right here on NintendoLife, the only complaints in the Flipper and Flipper 2 reviews seem to be the length, which lead to good ratings, but not high enough to really convince a lot of people that they should take notice. Even for $2, I heard so many that declared they would wait for reviews of Flip the Core for DSiWare; I mean, you're interested because it at least appears to be good and it's only 2 bucks, yet you're so hesitant? I just want to slap these people awake.

It breaks my heart to think that you have trouble supporting a decent life doing the work that you love, but it seems to be the case that some of these smaller, beloved teams like WayForward and Renegade Kid, find success doing the kind of work that "pays the bills" between their "passion projects." It's hard for me to say, because I have no idea what any of that is like, but maybe it would be worth porting Bejeweled clones sometimes, if you feel up to it. I for one wouldn't and couldn't hold it against you.

Edited on by WesFX

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rayword45

13. Posted:

Yeah, after reading that, I went out and bought the game, despite my pessimistic beliefs that one sale won't help too much. And I do see some minor length flaws without even finishing it, but it's not bad for $2.

Honestly, it depresses me when people like you can't seem to support their life making games of at least decent quality, while at the very least maintaining a humble and respectful attitude to criticism, while developers whom I assume people already realize I'm talking about make millions of dollars off of absolute trite garbage, and show their insanely inflated egos to the world via their asinine comments.

Fact is, DSiWare isn't too profitable a platform at the moment, and never will be unless some insane change happens. 3DS eShop games seem to be doing much better in terms of sales (while not being fantastic itself).

Out of curiousity, if you're allowed to share it, how much money do you make per each sale of your game, depending on the price of the game?

Also, I can't say this enough, if you really want to release the games to at least slightly more sales on a handheld, release them on the 3DS eShop ASAP because I fear the sales may go down. The update option means more content can be added also.

EDIT: Is this image part of the whole retail version thing? http://www.gamesetwatch.com/100301-flipper-2.jpg

I wish I could read the back of that box.

Edited on by rayword45

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rayword45

14. Posted:

Also, on the topic of the game, I haven't finished it yet, but I like the art style a bit (though it's not nearly as sexy as the first Flipper) and the concept is highly original. The game is a bit short, but other games like 10-Second Run feature less content (unless you can beat every level in this game in under 15 seconds).

Though, to be honest, I think this would've fit better as a mini-game within a different game (for 800 points or so) only because I can't see this concept attracting most gamers (math isn't most people's idea of a good time)

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WesFX

15. Posted:

rayword45 wrote:

Also, I can't say this enough, if you really want to release the games to at least slightly more sales on a handheld, release them on the 3DS eShop ASAP because I fear the sales may go down. The update option means more content can be added also

I wish I could remember the team that specifically mentioned this recently, but getting 3DS eShop developer status is a different beast than getting DSiWare development status. To the point that this particular team was unable to get the certification and development kits for 3DS eShop, based on their size and work-place (or lack of an official one)

WesFX

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Odnetnin

16. Posted:

@WesFX Was it the guys behind Inchworm Animation? Because I know they weren't able to secure a 3DS dev kit.

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rayword45

17. Posted:

"But it won't be any time soon.. after this game I will lock myself in a room with a 3DS devkit and I won't come out until I have something briljant "

That comment seems to imply Hugo already has one it seems.

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WesFX

18. Posted:

TinyOddy wrote:

@WesFX Was it the guys behind Inchworm Animation? Because I know they weren't able to secure a 3DS dev kit.

Yes, that's exactly it. Thanks to that reminder I found the interview no problem: http://www.nintendofansonline.co.uk/2012/04/interview-flat-bl...

No specific reason given, in this case, but after a little research, it seems the Flat Black Films team (behind Inchworm) is....not much of a game studio. It definitely sounds like these guys don't have a single official office type of location, which (again I forget who I should attribute it too) we've heard is one of Nintendo's requirements for WiiWare and probably eShop.

WesFX

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WesFX

19. Posted:

rayword45 wrote:

"But it won't be any time soon.. after this game I will lock myself in a room with a 3DS devkit and I won't come out until I have something briljant "

That comment seems to imply Hugo already has one it seems.

I don't think that comment inherently says he had one yet (from Feb. 14th), but it does bring up the idea that it was his plan to start right away on a 3DS game. We can assume Ace Mathician development is complete, so he might have let us know if he already found out he was turned down for 3DS developer status. He could still be applying or awaiting the results of his application, though.

WesFX

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HugoSmits

20. Posted:

@WesFX I actually did do some work for hire, it's not super bad to do. But it's just sad that I have some really awesome concepts and nobody wants to publish it! While at the sametime they keep asking me to make projects on which they literally say "make it cheap, as long as it's not unplayable, it's good".And those things get published!

I have a 3DS kit, and I have had acces to 3DS kits since 2010/2011 before the 3DS was even in the store :)

However it's really difficult to work on, and I don't think you will see me do anything 3DS related anytime soon, the development costs are just too high and the eshop is just a really big risk!

Instead I will probably focus on the PS Vita....

Edited on by HugoSmits

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